Correct me if I'm wrong John, but wasn't mine and Alex's map essentially the same when we ran at Group B Motorsport? Think I only made something like 8bhp more than Alex but 20ft/lbs more torque than him? Only real difference was the fact I'm running a tubular manifold and a quaife LSD.

Did discuss the figures of the rollers used, think the figures on bhp are slightly over reading.

Did you get a ATW reading Alex? Gutted I couldn't make it, would of been good for another dyno to compare our figures once again.

Yeah was the same map. When we logged his the second time round it never made full boost so fuelling was held back. Not the same when logged on the road.

Shame we never logged your to see if yours made full boost. Silky's never made full as he had the boost nipple hooked to the dyno so it was on his graph.

GTB2260vk can deffo run 2.8 reliably so don't be too scared about boosting it a tad more

no doubt the 2260 can run 2.8bar but i tried 2.6bar on the polo and tbh it never felt any difference, the poor BLT pistons just gave up and died

 

i'm settled at 2.4bar now even if i fit the injectors i'm not going over 2.4bar it might make the same power but just will hold the power to limiter instead of dying off

Yeah was the same map. When we logged his the second time round it never made full boost so fuelling was held back. Not the same when logged on the road.

Shame we never logged your to see if yours made full boost. Silky's never made full as he had the boost nipple hooked to the dyno so it was on his graph.

 

John do you think mine never made full boost on the day? i was under the impression it did and the graph showed 2.3bar

I really believe the 2260 is capable of doing 300bhp.

 

I / we got soooo close but after tweaking again we could never find that sweet spot to improve upon and ended up almost going backwards. Yes my car smoked but it was pushing for power. I did have a map to run a clean"ish" 270bhp but whats the fun of that when you know you have access to more power lol.

 

Maybe if I had ran a dssr injector things may have been different as from what I have heard they have a better spray pattern ?

John do you think mine never made full boost on the day? i was under the impression it did and the graph showed 2.3bar

I stand corrected it did make full power but took a while to hit the full boost.

You bunch of boost hungry freaks....

 

(I'm only jealous....  )

I really believe the 2260 is capable of doing 300bhp.

 

I / we got soooo close but after tweaking again we could never find that sweet spot to improve upon and ended up almost going backwards. Yes my car smoked but it was pushing for power. I did have a map to run a clean"ish" 270bhp but whats the fun of that when you know you have access to more power lol.

 

Maybe if I had ran a dssr injector things may have been different as from what I have heard they have a better spray pattern ?

yes better spray pattern i run 279bhp running 2.5 bar and smoke is very good imo

To be fair, smoke levels on Steve's were very good.

I don't think 9bhp over mine at the same boost levels is acceptable for all the work you've had done though. I would've expected yours to pull at the very least 20bhp or so more than mine...

I really believe the 2260 is capable of doing 300bhp.

I / we got soooo close but after tweaking again we could never find that sweet spot to improve upon and ended up almost going backwards. Yes my car smoked but it was pushing for power. I did have a map to run a clean"ish" 270bhp but whats the fun of that when you know you have access to more power lol.

Maybe if I had ran a dssr injector things may have been different as from what I have heard they have a better spray pattern ?

The only way I'd want a 300bhp Fabia is if levels of smoke were similar to what they're at now.

As a daily car, I personally find huge plummets of smoke not only annoying, but embarrassing! The smoke that came out of yours was unbelievable that day ha ha!

Hence I don't think a standard 2260 is ever going to be able to achieve this without the soot excess...

Your not wrong Alex. Smoke was excessive but it got the car its reputation

 

Just for sakes of argument ... no engine work, just blower, injectors. exhaust and manifold.

 

 

Edited 4 May, 201511 yr by joelk2010

No Smoke no Poke!

Smoke at WOT doesn't bother me tbh, mine certainly feels better for it on stock nozzles

Just need someone who runs nozzles with an EGT gauge to see wat temps they get held flatout

An interesting find today regarding the manifold.

 

John and I were wondering why the difference in torque between the Golf and mine at the RR day. As we were both running the same spec and both mapped by John - only difference being his was tubular.

 

I had a new map come through off John last night, with a similar smoke limiter map to the Golf. Got in the car to find it's a hell of a lot torquier with the changes! However, the trade-off is that I'm noticing there is more smoke at half and full throttle low down before the boost comes in properly. Where as on the last map I have virtually none.

I'm guessing that because I run a side-exit exhaust, I can angle the mirror down and see the tailpipe directly. The others who have run more torque probably haven't noticed the smoke. Hence I had it reigned in a bit for it to be a cleaner daily driver.

 

So it looks like no difference in manifold as originally thought...

 

 

I'll be putting the previous map back on the car, even though it is quicker in this state.

There is absolutely no earthly reason why equal length manifolds should make any more power or torque on a TDI application at all.

 

Generally if you can't think of a sound engineering reason to do a mod then you probably needn't bother doing it.

 

As a rule in turbo applications the shorter the distance from the exhaust valve to the exducer the better, lengths are irrelevant since there's no pulse tuning to be exploited and EGT's are far lower in TDI's than petrol engines, you also don't want large diameters since that reduces gas speeds and lowers temperatures.

 

Frankly it's a nonsensical waste of money since fabricated manifolds are prone to fatigue and cracking, particularly on vibey diesels.

 

The cast manifold is not really restrictive and the only work I'd bother doing is to port match the manifold and remove any obvious internal casting flaws which might affect flow.

An interesting find today regarding the manifold.

 

John and I were wondering why the difference in torque between the Golf and mine at the RR day. As we were both running the same spec and both mapped by John - only difference being his was tubular.

 

I had a new map come through off John last night, with a similar smoke limiter map to the Golf. Got in the car to find it's a hell of a lot torquier with the changes! However, the trade-off is that I'm noticing there is more smoke at half and full throttle low down before the boost comes in properly. Where as on the last map I have virtually none.

I'm guessing that because I run a side-exit exhaust, I can angle the mirror down and see the tailpipe directly. The others who have run more torque probably haven't noticed the smoke. Hence I had it reigned in a bit for it to be a cleaner daily driver.

 

So it looks like no difference in manifold as originally thought...

 

 

I'll be putting the previous map back on the car, even though it is quicker in this state.

 

 

Alec hurry up an get a EGT gauge fitted and see what figures you are getting holding it WOT from 3rd, 4th & 5th with the revs above 4500rpm

 

the tweak John made to mine as it goes on boost and mid range have made a noticeable difference and i've not really seen any increase in smoke (tbh i think it needs some more to get over the laggy feeling mine has)

 

the tweak for top end made the biggest difference and i think the smoke levels are acceptable in my eyes

If it helps on track I rarely see egt above 650.670 degrees. And my sensor is in the correct pre turbo position where it's warmest.

Alec hurry up an get a EGT gauge fitted and see what figures you are getting holding it WOT from 3rd, 4th & 5th with the revs above 4500rpm

 

the tweak John made to mine as it goes on boost and mid range have made a noticeable difference and i've not really seen any increase in smoke (tbh i think it needs some more to get over the laggy feeling mine has)

 

the tweak for top end made the biggest difference and i think the smoke levels are acceptable in my eyes

 

 

I'll be getting one soon mate. Bought a spare EGR blanking plate to weld the female connection on to. Only just got round to getting a boost gauge!!

 

Smoke levels aren't bad with the higher torque. It's just not as clean as it was on the map before at low revs.

If it helps on track I rarely see egt above 650.670 degrees. And my sensor is in the correct pre turbo position where it's warmest.

is that on a full wot run right upto top end revs?

As those figures are low if so.

Yes. I was keeping my eye on them at combe. Was surprised myself to be honest. Rarely seem 700 before then too, but there's not many circuits with a straight as demanding as combe

If it helps on track I rarely see egt above 650.670 degrees. And my sensor is in the correct pre turbo position where it's warmest.

 

 

you are on a DS Tubular aren't you?

 

i'm seeing 950+ if held WOT from 3rd, 4th & into 5th and only if i rev it right out till 5000rpm

 

if i change gear at 4500rpm in each gear its not as bad

 

heres where mine is connected on my DS tubular

I really could do with sorting myself an EGT gauge and spending a day on the rollers at work with John altering maps and recording the outcomes of each individual adjustment.

you are on a DS Tubular aren't you?

 

i'm seeing 950+ if held WOT from 3rd, 4th & into 5th and only if i rev it right out till 5000rpm

 

if i change gear at 4500rpm in each gear its not as bad

 

heres where mine is connected on my DS tubular

 

Yeah, mine is in essentially the same spot.  I have a VEIsystems gauge so assume its accurate.  I see temps of around 250 cruising at 70mph in 6th on a flat bit of motorway, uphill climbs and it might climb to 300 and above.

 

I have yet to do a real long pull in all gears - There's not many straights longer than Combe (if you include the slight kink which I take at WOT anyway) so don't often have a longer pull than to about 120mph which I was doing a couple of weeks back.  Whether it matters I don't know but due to my long box, I can do 120mph in 4th gear so I was never needing 5th.  Whether WOT in 5th would mean higher EGT I don't know.

Would be really good to see EGT with larger nozzles. I would expect EGT to drop but not expecting much in terms of power.

i'm seeing 950+ if held WOT from 3rd, 4th & into 5th and only if i rev it right out till 5000rpm

 

Jeez Louise, that's dangerously high even for the short-medium term reliability of your turbo.

 

 

Would be really good to see EGT with larger nozzles. I would expect EGT to drop but not expecting much in terms of power.

 

Richer mixtures means higher EGT on diesels right?