Shall we not have a sticky thread at the top of the forum giving all the info about cave/cthe and all the tests etc?

 

I know I'm a newbie here and maybe speaking out of turn but all the separate threads on the subject is depressing. Every time I log on there is a thread(s) regurgitating the same stuff, the same negativity, the same VAG bashing. It's really tiresome to be honest. It makes me want to sell my bloody car sometimes, plus its just going to drive down residual values.

 

Why can't we have a thread pinned at the top giving the facts, the test format, the changes made to engines etc etc? It can be covered all in one and then the rest of the board can be filled with less negative stuff. It can then serve as a source of info for newbies.

 

 

Maybe compile and write one, because i am not posting any more on oil use.

It is the 1st of June tomorrow,

5 years now since the Mk2 vRS was available to buy and long enough for VW to have sorted out the issues with the engines since they went in the Seat Ibiza.

 

I understand you getting annoyed like others when you have no problems with your car,

but as you see there are still owners every week having issues now with cars built 5 years ago.

 

Who really gives a damn about residuals on a used car bought in 2014 and now discontinued,

the residual values have been OK in the past 5 years of the cars 4 1/2 year production run.

Better actually than many other Volkswagen Group Models.

 

The 'i am all right Jack' attitude of many owners with no issues has been depressing for many Buyers of New and Used Twinchargers 

over the past few years.

Edited 31 May, 201511 yr by goneoffSKi

Its not a rant because I'm OK and don't have car issues, its more of a way of compiling the info so people having problems have a thorough list of what to look out for, what to expect from skoda and what the can demand. 

 

At the moment there a countless threads on the same thing and it just gives the impression that the car is a ticking time bomb and Skoda are not interested and the world is about to stop turning etc.

 

Sure a lot of cars are having issues but a lot are not

 

I care about residuals. I would say most do.

Many of them are ticking time bombs for engine failures and several members are having trials and tribulations right now.

 

Maybe after this weeks BBC Watchdog on the Audi Engines issues there will be some move from the Volkswagen Group on the 

Twinchargers ongoing issues.

 

That is really why the threads are all on this page this weekend.

Skoda might just have to Modify their behaviour towards the Owners of faulty cars by next week.

 

We all think about residuals, and they are doing just fine.

You got a good deal buying new did you not because the vRS was never a great seller new and you bought the last of the Production

run.

New vRS in 2014 cost buyers just about the same money as people paid for new ones 5 years ago.

<SNIP>

Why can't we have a thread pinned at the top giving the facts, the test format, the changes made to engines etc etc? It can be covered all in one and then the rest of the board can be filled with less negative stuff. It can then serve as a source of info for newbies.

A great idea but probably impossible; those with the knowledge are almost certainly incapable of writing objectively, honestly and/or factually :(

Do you mean me,

or do you mean Alasdair Stewart Skoda UK Brand Director, Tom Chadwick, John Good or other Skoda UK Management?

 

Ask them for a comment or statement and figures on the Failures from 2010-2015 and the see what honest and factual information you receive.

A great idea but probably impossible; those with the knowledge are almost certainly incapable of writing objectively, honestly and/or factually :(

 

That's a bit offside that comment 

That's a bit offside that comment 

Personally, I have never been able to get my head around the offside rule.

 

However, as George implies, there are sound commercial reasons why neither Alasdair or anyone else at Skoda would be completely honest or give all the facts. Added  to that I can't see them wanting to get involved in or to fuel a public debate.  As to anyone else, they certainly don't have anywhere near all the facts and they are highly unlikely to be any more objective than Skoda (or VAG).

 

I still agree with you that a well written, informed, accurate, objective "sticky" on oil usage and any genuine DSG problems would be a very good idea. The vast number of threads could then be locked and allowed to sink without trace.

Personally, I have never been able to get my head around the offside rule.

 

 

 

vxh26,

How about some honesty from you.

 

What is your interest in the Mk2 Fabia vRS and any issues owners have with them.

Have you ever driven one other than on a road test, owned one, worked on one, or on any Skoda.

 

You seemed very keen to know all about the cars, and have carried on your interest for a long time,

and now would be happy to see the threads locked and sink without trace.

 

?

so what is your game, just an enthusiast or some sort of VW / Skoda Fanboy that does not put his money

were it might be at risk?

Edited 31 May, 201511 yr by goneoffSKi

So George, what is your objection to a single well written, informed, accurate, objective "sticky" on oil usage and any genuine DSG problems related to the Mk. II Skoda vRS?

None,.  Its long overdue and a great idea.  

The sooner someone writes one the better, 4 years now and its not been done.

I'm willing to contribute - How can we develop a collaborative Sticky?

 

For starters, the following headers should be included

 

Excessive oil consumption - What is the background?

 

Excessive oil consumption - What Fabia models does it affect (perhaps go on to talk about the CAVE/CTHE engines

 

What to do if you are suffering from excessive oil consumption (detail info like approach Skoda dealer, customer services etc)

 

What help can I expect? - Talk about peoples general experiences ie systematic changes like breather mods etc etc

 

Anything else guys?

 

Please note - this is going to be something to try and help others so if you are intent on trolling or creating arguments then kindly **** off somewhere else.

People do seem to like personal dialogue, over their individual circumstances, with people that have the experience and achieved a successful conclusion -dealing with Dealers and the Manufacturers Customer Service -"dead bat "- offhand approach to the CUSTOMER - even thought the model has a KNOWN on going Problem.

Edited 1 June, 201511 yr by vrskeith

I'm alright Jack. (*runs)

I still believe that the first post on any sticky should be informed, accurate and objective. Personal experiences may or may not be helpful and may well be subject to a non-disclosure agreement. There is no reason why they shouldn't appear as additional posts.

 

Having said that, I would offer the following as a starting point - George is welcome to correct as appropriate and maybe the Administrators will see fit to include a thread in the Skoda Fabia II sub-forum?

 

 

THREAD TITLE: Skoda vRS Mk. II 1.4 litre twincharger oil consumption issues

 

SUMMARY

 

The Skoda vRS Mk. II uses a 1.4 litre twincharger engine. There are two variants of this engine - CAVE until 2012 and CTHE from 2012.

 

Page 145 of Owner's manual (LINK) includes the following observation:

“The oil consumption may be as much as 0.5 litres per 1,000 kilometres depending on your style of driving and the conditions under which you operate the vehicle. Consumption may be slightly higher than this during the first 5,000 kilometres.”

 

There have been a number of instances of this engine using more than ½ litre per 1,000 kilometres (621 miles). This does not apply to all engines and the reasons for the problem are not clear.

 

Following an oil consumption test Skoda have tried various remedies to reduce this oil consumption.

 

 

THE TEST

 

If you believe that your vRS is using an excessive amount of oil, you can ask a dealer to conduct a test to determine whether or not it is within the limit. They may try to charge you for conducting this test, it is quite likely that if you are well within limits they will insist on your paying for the test.

 

The test consists of draining the oil; replacing the filter; weighing and putting in exactly 3.6 litres of oil; sealing the oil filler and dipstick; having the owner drive a few hundred miles; draining and weighing the oil. This somewhat crude test should allow a calculation to be performed which will show how much oil is being used.

 

If the test is carried out on your car you should insist on being given a hard copy of the test results.

 

 

THE ATTEMPTED REMEDIES

 

The most extreme attempt at a remedy is to replace the engine or part of it. Other than that, there have been various attempts over time to solve the excessive oil consumption such as replacing the piston rings, modifying the breather and applying an ECU update.

 

The most recent and potentially promising fix involves fitting different oil spray jets (squirters) which are mounted just above the crank, point under the piston skirts and spray the underside of the pistons with oil to cool them.

 

 

Other details some of which it might be worth including are:

• an accurate description of how to check the dipstick (the manual is somewhat vague)
  
• how much oil is required to get from one area on the dipstick to another
  
• the approved type of oil to be used in the Mk. II Skoda vRS
  
• tips for persuading a dealer to carry out the test and not charge for doing so
  
• contact details for possibly relevant people at Skoda
  

I still believe that the first post on any sticky should be informed, accurate and objective. Personal experiences may or may not be helpful and may well be subject to a non-disclosure agreement. There is no reason why they shouldn't appear as additional posts.

 

Having said that, I would offer the following as a starting point - George is welcome to correct as appropriate and maybe the Administrators will see fit to include a thread in the Skoda Fabia II sub-forum?

 

 

THREAD TITLE: Skoda vRS Mk. II 1.4 litre twincharger oil consumption issues

 

SUMMARY

 

The Skoda vRS Mk. II uses a 1.4 litre twincharger engine. There are two variants of this engine - CAVE until 2012 and CTHE from 2012.

 

Page 145 of Owner's manual (LINK) includes the following observation:

“The oil consumption may be as much as 0.5 litres per 1,000 kilometres depending on your style of driving and the conditions under which you operate the vehicle. Consumption may be slightly higher than this during the first 5,000 kilometres.”

 

There have been a number of instances of this engine using more than ½ litre per 1,000 kilometres (621 miles). This does not apply to all engines and the reasons for the problem are not clear.

 

Following an oil consumption test Skoda have tried various remedies to reduce this oil consumption.

 

 

THE TEST

 

If you believe that your vRS is using an excessive amount of oil, you can ask a dealer to conduct a test to determine whether or not it is within the limit. They may try to charge you for conducting this test, it is quite likely that if you are well within limits they will insist on your paying for the test.

 

The test consists of draining the oil; replacing the filter; weighing and putting in exactly 3.6 litres of oil; sealing the oil filler and dipstick; having the owner drive a few hundred miles; draining and weighing the oil. This somewhat crude test should allow a calculation to be performed which will show how much oil is being used.

 

If the test is carried out on your car you should insist on being given a hard copy of the test results.

 

 

THE ATTEMPTED REMEDIES

 

The most extreme attempt at a remedy is to replace the engine or part of it. Other than that, there have been various attempts over time to solve the excessive oil consumption such as replacing the piston rings, modifying the breather and applying an ECU update.

 

The most recent and potentially promising fix involves fitting different oil spray jets (squirters) which are mounted just above the crank, point under the piston skirts and spray the underside of the pistons with oil to cool them.

 

 

CHECKING THE OIL LEVEL

 

The manual gives the following advice on checking the oil level:

• Ensure that the vehicle is positioned on a level surface and the engine has reached its operating temperature.
• Switch off the engine.
• Open the bonnet.
• Wait a few minutes until the engine oil flows back into the oil sump and remove the dipstick.
• Wipe the dipstick with a clean cloth and insert it again to the stop.
• Then pull out the dipstick again and check the oil level.

The oil level should be within the hatched area, NEVER below the hatched area.
If the oil level is within range A (above the hatched area) no oil should be added.
If the oil level is within range B (within the hatched area) oil CAN be added. This may bring it above the hatched area.
If the oil level is within range C (below the hatched area) oil MUST be added.

 

The approved oil is Castrol Edge 5W-30 FST Fully Synthetic VW 504 00.

The oil capacity is exactly 3.6 litres, you should NEVER overfill.

 

Operating temperature probably means 90°C; God alone knows what "a few minutes" means; frankly checking when cold makes more sense but there you go.

 

 

Other details some of which it might be worth including are:

• tips for persuading a dealer to carry out the test and not charge for doing so
• contact details for possibly relevant people at Skoda

All good stuff, I think that would be very beneficial.

 

- Informative

- accurate

- free from emotion / opinion

- just facts and figures from previous experiences from members

If you have a Manufacturers Warranty you

'can maybe ask a Dealership to ask the Warranty Provider if they are going to pay for an Oil Consumption Test'.

 

If you have an Extended or After Market Warranty the Warranty Provider might tell you that you need to 'Have an Oil Consumption test carried 

out at your Expense.

 

Dealerships are not very likely to carry out Oil Consumption Tests which involve Oil, Filter , Labour and Administering unless someone is paying.

ie, A Client,  which is the Owner or the Warranty Provider.

Maybe if they sell you a Used Car with a Warranty, the Dealership might perform a Free Oil Consumption Test if they are 

going to have to deal with the vehicles repair if it is Faulty.

 

Then if you have No Warranty & you have a Oil Consumption Test done at your expense, where do you go from there with no Warranty.

Are you paying to have remedial work done or are you going to the Manufacturer looking for Goodwill because of the potential of the known faults showing only once the Original Manufacturers Warranty had Expired.

 

...................

Operating Temperature or Normal Operating Temperature is not 90*0C Oil Temp.

Many cars might drive all day and not have the Oil reach 90*oC in some Types of Driving and weather conditions.

 

Oil over an indicated 50*C & towards 80*oC will be enough to be considered as the Operating Temperature,

but even in warmer Ambient UK Temperatures that can take up to 10 miles of driving to reach that temperature.

..................

 

The Correct oil for the 1.4 TSI /TFSI 132-136 minimum KW Twincharger is 

 

Annual Fixed Servicing 9,400 (10,000) Miles / 372 Days.  

VW 502 00 Full Synthetic (this is 5w 40)

or

VW 504 00 Long Life Full Synthetic. (this is 5w 30)

 

For Variable Fixed Servicing it is 

VW 504 00 Long Life Full Synthetic . (5w 30)   Brand is not Important only the Spec,

 VW / Skoda Recommend Castrol, Dealerships might be using Castrol or Quantum Long Life III

Edited 2 June, 201511 yr by goneoffSKi

Fair comment on the oil temperature, I have done a search and come up with the following LINK - should we settle on 80°C? This just highlights how vague the whole "hot dip" idea is.

 

Strangely enough, I see that Skoda say that the oil should be checked with a cold engine in the case of the 1.2 litre engine. They also say that the oil level should be within the "A range" if the engine is operated at high loads - e.g. typical vRS usage.

 

As to the difference between Fixed & Variable servicing intervals, since both allow the use of VW 504 00 and in order to avoid confusion, wouldn't it make sense to suggest the use of this grade? I agree that it doesn't have to be Castrol Edge.

 

Finally, I have found your more detailed and accurate LINK to the oil consumption test and will incorporate this.

 

ps - yet more on the folly of "hot dipping" (LINK)!

Edited 3 June, 201511 yr by vxh26

Many Servicing Workshops will use Long Life Oil when doing Fixed Annual 9,400 mile / 372 Day Servicing,

and it makes sense, because thats what they have, it costs them little different stocking Long Life Oil,

but it can be more expensive to the paying customer and have no performance improvement or reduced oil temperature,

and no benefits when you are changing oil often. ie Not having Variable / Flexible Servinging Schedules.

An annual or less mileage Oil & Filter Change can be more beneficial and VW 502 00 is fine for that.

 

(look at the Oil Capacity that the 44 kw engine that the manual says is the only one that gets a cold oil check.)

 

Nice work on the sticky.

??

But have you actually looked at a Dipstick of a 1.4 TSI Twincharger in the flesh yet,

done a cold dip, done a hot dip, and seen the differences, or is your Sticky just a Research on Paper and Online exercise.

 

The problem with it is you seem to be looking not only at my posts but at Volkswagen / Skoda Official Information,

and you are being subject to 'Lost in Translation' with both of us.

(Have a look at Official Volkswagen Checking Oil Videos, these do not give the same instructions as in the Volkswagens Owners manuals, then look at a Skoda Owners Manual which uses different Terms and Words than the Volkswagen Owners Manuals.)

 

Maybe go get some hands on experience & gather the information, then you will maybe know your ar53 from your elbow.

Edited 3 June, 201511 yr by goneoffSKi

A Video from Volkswagen on checking Petrol Engines Hot would be very useful.

& a Video on the 1.4 TSI Twinchargers that they have been building and selling for near a decade now.

If there is one, maybe that could be added to the 'Sticky'.

 

This is for a VW TDI Engine.

No mention here of checking hot or cold, but in the Fabia, Polo, A1, Ibiza Owners Manual 

it reads as all are checked Warm / Operating Temperature other than the 44 kw Engine.

Edited 3 June, 201511 yr by goneoffSKi

If you are interested in the Dipstick and the Oil Level Indications and how much can be between the correct quantity in the engine and a Warning Light or Message.

An Engine that had  the correct level at a Service or check from a Dealership can have the Oil go as far as none showing on the Dip Stick with a Hot or Cold Check before a Yellow Warning Light or Message shows, and even at times a Red Low Oil Pressure Light or Message Shows, and no Yellow Warning has.

 

The Oil can be as much as 1.5-2 litres required to get it back to the correct level.

I find that 'at the bottom orange ball on a hot check can require 1.3 litres to get the oil in the engine back to having 3.6 litres in.

 

Others might have different experiences of having dealt with Low Oil Warnings, Low Oil Pressure and quantities of oil required.

 

1.5 litres or more to as much as 2 litres low of engine oil low in an engine with a 3.6 litre capacity and no Warning to the driver seems to be a bit of a fundamental 

design fault on the Sensors and Engine Management system.

Edited 3 June, 201511 yr by goneoffSKi

Here is Quentins take on things.  So doing it for Castrol, and VW should maybe have listened on the Warning Message bit.

also it is a bit different from the VW Video, and from the VW, Skoda, Audi, Seat Owners manuals, 

but at least some help for those in doubt.

(here this is with an engine that has been running.)

I would like to add a "WHY SHOULD YOU CARE?" section. It would consist of something along the lines of:

 

The most obvious result of excessive oil consumption is that you as owner / driver will have to pay out to replenish expensive oil. However, there are other consequences, the plugs are likely to be covered in soot and oily deposits with the potential result of damage to them as will the valves.

 

Can anyone think of anything else?