I understand that from the general feedback on the Forum, that uprated springs are definately worth considering for the first upgrade to the vRS Fabia.

Now, be brutally honest. Is it worth the outlay for a re-map as well ?

I know that there is loads of threads concerning re-maps but they all seem to lead to a competition on 'who does the best' re-map. :confused:

Cheers.

depends on what you want from the car really.

To me it was worth it, but that doesn't mean everyone else might think so.

I understand that from the general feedback on the Forum' date=' that uprated springs are definately worth considering for the first upgrade to the vRS Fabia.

Now, be brutally honest. Is it worth the outlay for a re-map as well ?

I know that there is loads of threads concerning re-maps but they all seem to lead to a competition on 'who does the best' re-map. :confused:

Cheers. [/quote']

If i could only do one mod, then it would be springs. Transforms the car. In all honesty, I would do brakes next before a re map. Choice of remap is entirely up to yourself. Not seen a negative post about anyones remapped fabia, so they all seem ok. Prices range from

If i could only do one mod, then it would be springs. Transforms the car. In all honesty, I would do brakes next before a re map. Choice of remap is entirely up to yourself. Not seen a negative post about anyones remapped fabia, so they all seem ok. Prices range from

Cheers !!! Exactly the information looking for. Good honest old fashioned and most importantly' date=' understandable advice.

I've seen the brakes for sale on eBay (312 mm TT type). I'm NOT a mechanic. It's not silly money is it for fitting ? How about the springs, do you need to replace the dampers , or should I say, have you ?[/quote']

I didnt replace the dampers as my car was only 3 months old when i did the springs. The cost of the dampers to match put me off a bit too. The brakes took me a couple of hours to do, and i'm a mechanical ****tard too. Buy the kit from Golfturbo and you can't go wrong. Everything you need is there apart from green paint.So I would expect 1-2 hours labour for fitting. Same with springs. Mine were fitted by a mechanic and cost

I've seen the brakes for sale on eBay (312 mm TT type). I'm NOT a mechanic. It's not silly money is it for fitting ?

Do a search for 312mm brakes and you'll find the thread started by Steve (Golfturbo)

IIRC:

312mm standard disc's, calipers & carriers

Hi

I am a little curious as to how the faster springs would work with the standard dampers that are plainly just about up to the job, but not more. Rebound control is pretty weak and slow witted. I can only see harder springs making it worse. Surely the better idea would be to go for uprated dampers first?

Chris

don't really work like that chris, the springs would make a more noticible difference

Thanks for your PLAIN, SIMPLE, advice guys.

don't really work like that chris, the springs would make a more noticible difference

Hi Bengie

I am sure the springs would make a more noticable difference, but I would be after an improvement rather than a difference. Something I find a little annoying about the vRS handling is the cars tendency to very quickly unload the front outside wheel before you can get on the gas when punting it into some corners, particularly if trail braking on entry. This leads to understeer and makes it harder to get the back end working.

More rebound damping will help this. Reduced spring travel at higher rates will make it worse unless the dampers hold the compression for longer. Now if the dampers can barely cope with the standard springs, I cannot see the harder springs working as well. I know that cars feel good when cornering flat on the track, but for a road car, I want something supple and well damped so I can use the weight transfer to my advantage and enjoy decent progress when the surface is poor. Out of curiosity, anyone know how much the standard vRS dampers are uprated over those from less sporty models?

Over the years, I have fitted Bilstien shocks to standard springs with much success.

Chris

Hi Bengie

I am sure the springs would make a more noticable difference' date=' but I would be after an improvement rather than a difference. Something I find a little annoying about the vRS handling is the cars tendency to very quickly unload the front outside wheel before you can get on the gas when punting it into some corners, particularly if trail braking on entry. This leads to understeer and makes it harder to get the back end working.

More rebound damping will help this. Reduced spring travel at higher rates will make it worse unless the dampers hold the compression for longer. Now if the dampers can barely cope with the standard springs, I cannot see the harder springs working as well. I know that cars feel good when cornering flat on the track, but for a road car, I want something supple and well damped so I can use the weight transfer to my advantage and enjoy decent progress when the surface is poor. Out of curiosity, anyone know how much the standard vRS dampers are uprated over those from less sporty models?

Over the years, I have fitted Bilstien shocks to standard springs with much success.

Chris[/quote']

Aaaaahhhh someone who knows what they are talking about when it comes to suspension. Uprated dampers are always the best modification you can make to make your car handle better. But if you want your car to look good down the local McDs car park then springs are the way forward.

Sorry for the rant. Friday morning Sucks!

If you want to make it a better *drivers* car, then I'd do the following:-

1. Front, and if possible, rear strut brace - tightens chassis, and might improve the handling in as much as it may communicate the road surface through the wheel better and tighten the turn in.

2. 312 mm brake upgrades - I still maintain that the 288's were sufficient for day to day driving, but if you are a keen (read fast) driver then you'll want something with more feel and more fade resistant - the standard car can easily fade the 288's, never mind a tuned one.

3. Cupra intake / panel filter - mainly just to get the engine breathing better.

4. Uprated springs AND dampers - dont do things by halves, do it properly! The standard car has too much body roll, squats too much under acceleration, dives too much under braking, resulting in a light back end, not good when you are at speed. This mod will make the car handle better and grip the road better.

5. Exhaust - lets face it, diesel engines just dont sound good or involving. The Fabia has one of the better sounding diesel engines out there, but still, its a little on the characterless side. An exhaust should help with this a lot, and should give minor performance improvements.

6. Remap - the standard car feels fast, but it isnt. I have had races with things like Ford Pumas and Alfa 147 2.0 TS's, and I just cannot pull away from them. It could only just pull away from a 98 bhp Saxo VTR (and before anyone roasts me, look at the power to weight ratios of both... and the Saxo is only about 4 seconds slower to 100). Remap it, and you'll get circa 170 bhp, and it DOES feel a LOT faster. In fact with exhaust, breathing enhancements you might even nudge 180 bhp. I'd expect a car like this to keep pace with (but probably not exceed) a Clio 182 or CTR up to about 120ish.

7. FMIC - if you drive fast very often, and have a remap, it seems you WILL suffer from heatsoak, especially on hot days. The FMIC will allow the car to have sustainable power, instead of tailing off.

8. Uprated clutch - the clutch WILL fail more quickly than the standard one, so it might be an idea to get an uprated one, what is the point in having that bottom end torque if you cannot use it without fear of clutch slippage?

I believe those enhancements will make it a significantly better drivers car.... but that is thousands of pounds worth of upgrades, and for me it misses the point of the car somewhat. The car is simply an economical, effortless, affordable fast cruiser. These changes turn it into a hot hatch, but for me, its too much like hard work, and too much expense for the end result would be. For the cost of the Fabia, and all of these mods, I reckon you'd be talking about Focus ST money (yes thats the ST with 225 PS), and to be honest, you are simply getting more car for the money.

I'm not knocking the Fabia, but to make it competitive with proper hot hatches ends up being so expensive as to make it a little pointless IMHO.

As such, if it was MY money, I'd spend a little less and get something still entertaining - suspension and brake upgrades are a MUST though (for any keen driver), and I would go for a Mr Hoot box instead, as it does not fiddle with boost, and maybe do the pikey mod, and heatsoak shouldnt be too much of a problem. Oh and the easy breathing mods as well, since they are cheap.

Interesting thread. Could someone spell out in more detail exactly what's involved with the spring / damper upgrade. Which parts to get, where from, how much do they cost, where to get them fitted, how much that costs, how the car can be put back to normal if required etc. Same info on the front strut brace would also be good!

I'm not too bothered about speed/power but would like to improve handling. I've never done anything to a car like this before so some real beginners info would be great!

I believe those enhancements will make it a significantly better drivers car.... but that is thousands of pounds worth of upgrades' date=' and for me it misses the point of the car somewhat. The car is simply an economical, effortless, affordable fast cruiser. These changes turn it into a hot hatch, but for me, its too much like hard work, and too much expense for the end result would be. For the cost of the Fabia, and all of these mods, I reckon you'd be talking about Focus ST money (yes thats the ST with 225 PS), and to be honest, you are simply getting more car for the money.

[/quote']

Very well said. Why mod a car when u can get one with the power already.

lol Ive just spent a load of money on it. doH!!!!!!!!!

Agree with Walkie, just eibach springs with std. dampers and I must say that it's transformed the handling! Recommended!

I'm sure performace dampers might be better still, but I'm in no rush as I'm more than happy with the spring upgrade alone!!

I did drive JonTDI's with Eibach spring/dampers albeit briefly and to be honest it didn't feel any different although my memory is starting to fade!

Remap is another significant improvement and the combination of the two make a massive difference to the package for relatively small outlay!

I use std. brakes at the moment as I don't find them a problem but then again on the road, I'm not the last of the late brakers! Maybe for the near future though.

There have been a few on this site who have just had a spring upgrade without problems to my knowledge! I can vouch that they work great together as can may others!

Warranty - Any modification will void warranty to affected parts. Alot will depend on your dealer too!

On their own, that is all springs do. They will make your car handle better onvery smooth surfaces but not on UK roads in general. You are reducing dampr travel by fitting shorter springs, so lets say ur cornering on standard springs and the outside wheel hits a pothole. Suspension is pretty loaded as your cornering but standard shocks and springs will allow for the bump, therefore keeping the tire in contact with the road and not jumping. With shorter springs in the same instance, there will be no damper travel left and the car will bottom out on the bump stops, causing your wheel to lose contact with the ground, therefore making u slower. Springs should not stiffen your car up, only used to lower the centre of gravity slightly causing less body roll. But if you had uprated dampers or anti roll bars, you would have less body roll and better handling. Springs alone will not improve the handling. This could get really technical!

I tend to have a life outside of car's therefore do not think too much into these things.

Before springs, sloppy ride

After springs much improved ride and cornering - I am sure others will agree, infact if you search then others do agree.

This is based on my own experience I am not a race driver nor do I drive like one.

I am not saying that the ride is not improved. But your cornering wont be improved. I also have a life outside of cars, albeit not a lot of it. In general, most people think springs make their cars handle better but they dont really. Not having a go. But if I was to spend

Hi

It is all a matter of personal taste. Shorter suspension travel has its benefits. Firstly, stiffer shorter springs will help reduce the time it takes for the suspension to load up when you turn in. This will give the impression of quicker witted steering. Also, the car will dive less under braking and squat less under acceleration. Lastly, it will reduce the amount of body roll. All these things will produce a drive that is subjectively tighter and more controlled on smooth surfaces.

Now the downsides are a result of the upsides in some cases. When you set up a race car on rock hard springs, you adjust the geometry to get a relativly unstable car, which will allow a quick direction change and will load the chassis front and rear in a flat cornerig stance. Use of camber and particualry front and rear toe will define the cornering balance of the car on a smooth surface. On a road car, you are not doing all the stuff that goes with hard springs, so things like turn in are OK, but weight transfer and suspension travel related geometry change are reduced / changed. it is these load related geometry changes that allow us to dial in and assess the effect of the control input and guage the responses.

Take an average left hand bend. You can push the car up to it on the brakes, turn in and get on the gas. Now with the standard car, the suspension loads the o/s front while you are turning in on the brakes. As you feather the brakes , the front starts to unload (due to under damping allowing the front to rebound), if you are quick enough, a bit more of a tug on the steering and the weight shifts rearwards and the rear o/s loads up with the front giving you a nice cornering attitude that is throttle adjustable. This is accomplished by the rear o/s wheel travel allowing the engine torque to hold the front up. You play torque against front / rear lateral loading to get the throttle steer control.

Now make the car stiffer with shorter suspension travel and you reduce the ability to balance the car. In my experience, the harder lower road setups suffer from two main problems. Firstly, they tend to be a bit lacking in adjustability of loading by throttle and secondly, they are far easier to lose at the limit on bumps. This is because the bump is not absorbed by the suspension travel, so the body moves up and down instead of just the wheel.

Think about two of the best drivers cars out there. Hondas NSX has long travel suspension for a supercar. When it came out, it showed the likes of Ferrari how to make a road car that handled properly. The Lotus Carlton is another fine example of a good drivers car. It rode 3/4 and 1 1/4 inches higher front / rear than the standard car IIRC. The Citroe Xantia active was a car that did not roll. Quite a few of em went through hedges as a result of the feedback just not being there.

It was the lack of rear end suspension travel that hamstrung the handling of Vauxhalls of old. Anyone tried pushing a 24v Senator in the wet? Also, remember the teardrop Astra GTE? Fastest cornering ones I ever saw had been raised by 1 1/2 inches at the back and 1/2 at the front. You could go round corners in em without fear of the transition to oversteer kiling you.

I have driven all sorts over the years and have yet to drive a lowered car that bettered the original in genral road driving. (or was even as fast on average bumpy British B roads, although subjectively taughter). I would love to try a Fabia on Eibach springs and dampers to see how it compared. I already know that hardes springs with standard dampers are not going to do it for me as the damping rates have to go up to achieve wheel control as spring rates increase.

For my road car tastes, and I stress that this is not everyones taste, The way to go is dampers first, bushes second, springs if you are going track day driving and can adjust everything else up to suit.

Some will see the lower stiffer car as better, but if, like me you define better as being a more communicative chassis, you will relish the setup that the standard springs offer. Although not the last word in outright grip or response, you can have a very entertaining drive and enjoy it. The one thing I think would add to the enjoyment would be firmer damping, particualrly front end rebound rates.

Chris

PS I ask again, anyone know how much upgraded the vRS shocks are over the non vRS models on the Fabia? The more I think about it, the more I feel the dampers are the weak link. Not bad, but just not as good as they could be.

Some will see the lower stiffer car as better' date=' but if, like me you define better as being a more communicative chassis, you will relish the setup that the standard springs offer. Although not the last word in outright grip or response, you can have a very entertaining drive and enjoy it. The one thing I think would add to the enjoyment would be firmer damping, particualrly front end rebound rates.

[/quote']

Thats the thing though, the Fabia is hardly the most communicative chassis in its class (Fiesta ST, Clio 182 anyone?) as std, as it is set up for comfort and ride quality, not performance.

Thats the thing though, the Fabia is hardly the most communicative chassis in its class (Fiesta ST, Clio 182 anyone?) as std, as it is set up for comfort and ride quality, not performance.

Quite the case that there are more communicative cars out there. The steering in particular is not very easy to load to the limit in the wet. I still get the feeling that I am sort of trusting it to luck rather than feeling the loading. It is getting better as it has more miles on though. The rest of the chassis I find pretty useful for telling me how much each corner is working. Not the last word in feedback, but good ride comfort and road noise surpression. The car is not about outright pace though. It is, for me, about competent high speed driving, but day to day comfort as well. On the road, the satisfaction is gained by matching the cars rythm and making smooth fast progress. At this, the Fabia really excells. I spend up to 12 hours a day in mine and still find it both comfortable and entertaining while still averaging 45mpg. Cannot think of any other cars out there that could pull off that trick, which is why I bought one.

Adding firmer shorter springs will generally reduce further still the feedback level. A better idea is firmer bushing. Of course, if you want the definatively sweet handling hot hatch experience, you go to Renault and order a Clio 182. However, I dont think the Clio would fit my brief for comfort, economy and cruising ability.

Chris

edit: Have you driven a ST? Nose heavy like the Fabia, but less so. Not great on feedback either. Bloody harsh and noisy too. The Clio is the class leader in hatch handling. Why would anyone go for the Fiesta unless they get the priv' club discount?

Kin Ell. Who started this thread!!!???? Jon !!