Sooo, hit my local track today for the first time (first time with the car at a track in general - had anticipated this forever). Not much traffic there, basically just my 1.4 stage 2 "against" a BMW 1M, an M3 E92 and a Porsche Carrera 4s so not really chance to compete against cars near my class. Completely new to the track so spent most part of the day getting familiar with it (and still not getting it 100% right) Just to let everybody know on what basis I'm talking, car is: Stage 2 - 225bhp/330Nm with upgraded induction, intercooler and turbo back exhaust, Bilstein B8 / H&R springs / Whiteline RARB / Superpro Anti-Lift front control arm kit.

 

First thing to mention, car was gripping amazingly well, the track had loads of up's and down's, slight bumps and tight corners (small tight track in general) and Bilsteins seemed to keep it planted at all occasions. Only now I realized how much of a difference these dampers are making. Also, Federal's were keeping the car on the road much more than your senses would tell you is the critical point. Power/Torque: Surprisingly, even at just 225 bhp, it seemed partly unusable. There was no way I could put the power down on slow corner exits (of which there were quite a few) as the XDS even on low setting would cut the throttle too much unless the steering wheel pointed at 12 o' clock. As a result, on the exits the car was roaring but not escaping as fast its power would allow, then once XDS went off it catapulted forward as it was kicked in the butt. Brakes were probably the weakest point of the car: Clearly not up to the job, (at least uprated pads and fluid made the day last longer) which meant I ended up torturing the Federals too much unless I started braking way too early than what seemed optimal. I was terrified when I took a look at them during my first cooldown, rubber looked like it had actually melt and dried on the tyre.

 

Nice incident of the day was a spectator which approached me when I entered the pits for the first time asking how the hell this car went like it did and how it had been keeping not that far behind the M's...  All in all an amazing experience that I will definitely repeat in the future even though I felt it was quite harsh on the car. I just have to get that 6-pot Tarox kit out of my mind and I'll be fine...

 

Here's a short clip of when the M's passed by:

 

https://youtu.be/KAy0Vz0NDYk

Edited 17 April, 201610 yr by newbie69

Great post. & nice Vid.

 

?

Did you have TC off?

Yep, it was off for the most part as i was forgetting to turn it off right when i was starting every session, then saw the power being cut - what the heck?? oh yes the damn TC again - and turned it off.

Well from that video a M3 and 1M didn't really destroy you which is good, car sounded good too. Read a lot about this XDS I find on the road it's good but haven't read one good thing about it on track.

Nice! Looks a good circuit :-)

Sooo, hit my local track today for the first time (first time with the car at a track in general - had anticipated this forever). Not much traffic there, basically just my 1.4 stage 2 "against" a BMW 1M, an M3 E92 and a Porsche Carrera 4s so not really chance to compete against cars near my class. Completely new to the track so spent most part of the day getting familiar with it (and still not getting it 100% right) Just to let everybody know on what basis I'm talking, car is: Stage 2 - 225bhp/330Nm with upgraded induction, intercooler and turbo back exhaust, Bilstein B8 / H&R springs / Whiteline RARB / Superpro Anti-Lift front control arm kit.

 

First thing to mention, car was gripping amazingly well, the track had loads of up's and down's, slight bumps and tight corners (small tight track in general) and Bilsteins seemed to keep it planted at all occasions. Only now I realized how much of a difference these dampers are making. Also, Federal's were keeping the car on the road much more than your senses would tell you is the critical point. Power/Torque: Surprisingly, even at just 225 bhp, it seemed partly unusable. There was no way I could put the power down on slow corner exits (of which there were quite a few) as the XDS even on low setting would cut the throttle too much unless the steering wheel pointed at 12 o' clock. As a result, on the exits the car was roaring but not escaping as fast its power would allow, then once XDS went off it catapulted forward as it was kicked in the butt. Brakes were probably the weakest point of the car: Clearly not up to the job, (at least uprated pads and fluid made the day last longer) which meant I ended up torturing the Federals too much unless I started braking way too early than what seemed optimal. I was terrified when I took a look at them during my first cooldown, rubber looked like it had actually melt and dried on the tyre.

 

Nice incident of the day was a spectator which approached me when I entered the pits for the first time asking how the hell this car went like it did and how it had been keeping not that far behind the M's...  All in all an amazing experience that I will definitely repeat in the future even though I felt it was quite harsh on the car. I just have to get that 6-pot Tarox kit out of my mind and I'll be fine...

 

Here's a short clip of when the M's passed by:

 

https://youtu.be/KAy0Vz0NDYk

 

 

Well from that video a M3 and 1M didn't really destroy you which is good, car sounded good too. Read a lot about this XDS I find on the road it's good but haven't read one good thing about it on track.

Thats why I turn XDS off for the track season.... with it off, you will find your brakes cope MUCH better, its the main reason for melting front brakes at the track.

 

don't worry about the tyres, its what they are designed for, all track tyres look like that after a session.

 

glad you enjoyed it, the bug will have got you now

Well from that video a M3 and 1M didn't really destroy you which is good, car sounded good too. Read a lot about this XDS I find on the road it's good but haven't read one good thing about it on track.

 

Yep, as I said I didn't feel I was lacking so much in terms of power but it rather was a:  Brakes - FWD - XDS combination that kept me from having better laps. Bigger brakes and an XDS that can be turned totally off like in the CTHE models, would make quite a difference I think. XDS might be a PITA on track but it's a life saver on the road which I think is were this car was originally designed to be driven to be honest.

Yep, as I said I didn't feel I was lacking so much in terms of power but it rather was a:  Brakes - FWD - XDS combination that kept me from having better laps. Bigger brakes and an XDS that can be turned totally off like in the CTHE models, would make quite a difference I think. XDS might be a PITA on track but it's a life saver on the road which I think is were this car was originally designed to be driven to be honest.

I have just finished the track season with my ring trip, and set the XDS back to medium for the winter

 

after watching the vid , a driver who has the skills (no offense) and knows the track, could take it to the BM's in your car

Thats why I turn XDS off for the track season.... with it off, you will find your brakes cope MUCH better, its the main reason for melting front brakes at the track.

 

don't worry about the tyres, its what they are designed for, all track tyres look like that after a session.

 

glad you enjoyed it, the bug will have got you now

 

Now that you mention it, on my last lap after the final 20 min session, when depressing the brake pedal I felt it didn't really stop the car progressively as usual but it rather only acting at the very end of the pedal travel and with less force. That feeling remained on the way home. I doubt tyres became so worn and Motul RBF600 is supposed to cope easily with track use so... I'm hoping tomorrow morning they'll feel normal again??

I have just finished the track season with my ring trip, and set the XDS back to medium for the winter

 

after watching the vid , a driver who has the skills (no offense) and knows the track, could take it to the BM's in your car

 

Haha, none taken! my first visit on that track and my first track day ever, quite different than all the karting I've done in my life. Watching the videos now I realise many of the mistakes I kept doing and also that I need to adapt my style to the particularities/weaknesses of the car.

Don't worry about the tyres looking like that, mine did and I wasn't going that fast. I got the bug at Rockingham, now I'm going to Snetterton.

Now that you mention it, on my last lap after the final 20 min session, when depressing the brake pedal I felt it didn't really stop the car progressively as usual but it rather only acting at the very end of the pedal travel and with less force. That feeling remained on the way home. I doubt tyres became so worn and Motul RBF600 is supposed to cope easily with track use so... I'm hoping tomorrow morning they'll feel normal again??

Know how your brakes are feeling now. They will start to feel normal again by the end of the week. Even on the street now you probably feel like the car will not stop.

 

The Federal tyres are fine for a stage 1 tune but for stage 2 they just don't hook up out of the corners. Really liking the Yokohama AD08R's now.

Know how your brakes are feeling now. They will start to feel normal again by the end of the week. Even on the street now you probably feel like the car will not stop.

The Federal tyres are fine for a stage 1 tune but for stage 2 they just don't hook up out of the corners. Really liking the Yokohama AD08R's now.

That's exactly how they felt this morning on my way to work. No increase on the stopping power regardless of how deep i was depressing the pedal, and a definite drop on the absolute stopping capability when fully depressed, seems like the car will not stop early enough during an emergency braking.

I will give them that week to get back in shape but if not i think fluid needs changing. Also you were quite right about corner exiting, i felt i had loads of power but couldn't do much with it. Whether it was XDS, tyres or a combination of both i don't know for sure. I just know the car catapulted forward as soon as wheels pointed back straight.

Maybe of use.

http://trackdayguru.com/tyre-management.html

Cool beans!  :clap:

Another very useful website.

http://drivingfast.net/car-control/oversteer.htm

Another very useful website.

http://drivingfast.net/car-control/oversteer.htm

 

Hehe, that was already in my bookmarks George, good one.

Another very useful website.

http://drivingfast.net/car-control/oversteer.htm

"The good thing about oversteer is that you normally go through the hedge backwards, thus preventing expensive repairs to the front of your car."

That's a load of bull. I went through backwards and pretty much only damaged the front end of the car.

Yes BS it might be,

Was that oversteer with you though or just you loosing it & crashing on the public road through driving too fast for the road conditions.

Yes BS it might be,

Was that oversteer with you though or just you loosing it & crashing on the public road through driving too fast for the road conditions.

It was the second one, but still most damage to the front. Still, it says hedge in the article and I don't see many hedged on race tracks.

I did see the picture of your car behind a hedge and knew that was not a track, 

i had no idea if there was a corner involved or oversteer.

I did see the picture of your car behind a hedge and knew that was not a track, 

i had no idea if there was a corner involved or oversteer.

Definitely a corner, definitely too fast, but a lot slower than usual. It was just wetter and slippier than I thought it was :yes: .

Know how your brakes are feeling now. They will start to feel normal again by the end of the week. Even on the street now you probably feel like the car will not stop.

 

The Federal tyres are fine for a stage 1 tune but for stage 2 they just don't hook up out of the corners. Really liking the Yokohama AD08R's now.

 

Strangely, I feel the brakes have almost returned to their pre-track state, how can it be? First two days i was convinced the fluid was done for and ordered some Motul 660 for a change but now I am almost sure they feel normal again. Or I became used to their feeling?

Strangely, I feel the brakes have almost returned to their pre-track state, how can it be? First two days i was convinced the fluid was done for and ordered some Motul 660 for a change but now I am almost sure they feel normal again. Or I became used to their feeling?

 

The brakes will never feel 100% as they did before as the pads will be warn down slightly so they will feel more like 95% of what they were before. I found that if you got too much heat into the brakes at the start of the day they would feel really bad for the next week. Using some cooling ducts for track days now and this prolongs the brake feel a bit as well as making them return to a normal feel quicker later in the week (obviously the ducts are removed before I leave the track). I use Penrite Racing brake fluid and all I can say is that you will need to be aware that this happens and to be a little easier on your brakes until you can upgrade them. 

 

The only thing that I can think of that would cause the brakes to feel as they do would be the heat from the brakes glazing the disc or pad surface and making the pad/disc too shinny. This is why it takes a week or so before the glaze is removed and the brakes return to normal.

Yes they were looking ultra shinny. Here's some photos 3 days after the track, you can clearly see the caliper reflection on the disc.

 

So what's that heat glaze and how does it come and go exactly?