Advanced Motorcyling

[kevberlin]

My son recently informed me that the normal positioning advice for left and right hand bends has been amended. That is to say taking the outside line for right bends and the crown of the road for left turns if you see what I mean.

Apparently the advice now is to take a neutral position unless there is a specific benefit from taking the outside or crown of the road.

Can anyone shine any further light on this please? I am somewhat out of the loop nowadays. Thanks.

[turboman6680]

Where did he glean this advice from? Can't say I agree with it.

[fabiamk2SE]

I go to the left on right handers and towards the middle on left handers, until i see thr exit and the road openin up, then ill close in.

We can see furher by doing that, which adds safety etc etc.

We're at an advantage on a bike by being so small and able to move around the lane so much.. So we might aswel make use of it.

[kevberlin]

I go to the left on right handers and towards the middle on left handers, until i see thr exit and the road openin up, then ill close in.

We can see furher by doing that, which adds safety etc etc.

We're at an advantage on a bike by being so small and able to move around the lane so much.. So we might aswel make use of it.

Where did he glean this advice from? Can't say I agree with it.

Source was a local group of advanced motorcyclist. It is an amendment to the normal advice as described above by fabiamk2se

[fabiamk2SE]

Source was a local group of advanced motorcyclist. It is an amendment to the normal advice as described above by fabiamk2se

I dont wanna sound like a know it all.

But the way i do it seems to work for me.

I dont think ill be changing haha.

[kevberlin]

I dont wanna sound like a know it all.

But the way i do it seems to work for me.

I dont think ill be changing haha.

If true, it is a minor amendment only.

[Chriswright03]

So ride on the diesel line then?  Nah don't think so.  There has always been the instruction to sacrifice positioning for safety meaning don't go to the position if it isn't safe but this sounds wrong to me.  As far as I am concerned your positioning on bends is so you can see as far as possible and in that way you can react quicker to whatever you see.  How is that achieved by staying in the centre of your side?

 

I will pose the question on our RATS facebook page as there are quite  number of up to date Advanced riders on there including Instructors and I will let you know what they say.

[kevberlin]

So ride on the diesel line then?  Nah don't think so.  There has always been the instruction to sacrifice positioning for safety meaning don't go to the position if it isn't safe but this sounds wrong to me.  As far as I am concerned your positioning on bends is so you can see as far as possible and in that way you can react quicker to whatever you see.  How is that achieved by staying in the centre of your side?

 

I will pose the question on our RATS facebook page as there are quite  number of up to date Advanced riders on there including Instructors and I will let you know what they say.

Thanks Chris.

[Chriswright03]

..................and we have the result!

 

Cobblers!

 

I am at the local RATS meeting tomorrow night so will discuss it more there but the consensus so far is it is so wrong it is appalling.  I wonder if Son didn't quite grasp what was being said (no offence meant) or just misheard.  If in fact what he says he heard was what was said I think he should consider going to another group.

 

Having said that I will check with our RAT member who is a current Instructor of he is there tomorrow night or in fact he may be on line later.  He is a volunteer for the local Blood Bike so may well be out doing that.

[kevberlin]

..................and we have the result!

 

Cobblers!

 

I am at the local RATS meeting tomorrow night so will discuss it more there but the consensus so far is it is so wrong it is appalling.  I wonder if Son didn't quite grasp what was being said (no offence meant) or just misheard.  If in fact what he says he heard was what was said I think he should consider going to another group.

 

Having said that I will check with our RAT member who is a current Instructor of he is there tomorrow night or in fact he may be on line later.  He is a volunteer for the local Blood Bike so may well be out doing that.

Ha ha. I await with interest.

[Chriswright03]

Didn't go to the meeting but the Guy responded on our Facebook page.  He also believes it to be rubbish and for the same reasons.  He is going to check with the IAM Training Co-ordinator and get back to me though.

 

The part that rings a little true to me is that where they are told to sacrifice view for safety and that would mean riding more in the middle of your own side of the road if for example there was something coming towards you on a left hand bend to save you from being too close to the oncoming vehicle in case it wondered across the white line cutting the corner (as some do).  Same for a right hand bend you would move into the middle if there was an obstruction on your nearside or if the road was rough at the edges.

 

That is the only context I can think of where this would have been mentioned.  As I said before what I was taught and what I taught myself is straight from the Police Handbook and the whole purpose of the positioning is to allow the rider to see as much as is physically possible ahead in order to see what they have to deal with.  I used to take pupils out onto a quiet country road where I knew there was little traffic and walk a bend and talk the pupil through it showing them what you can see by being in the correct position and how much less you can see by not.

 

I will come back when I have heard from the guy again but I doubt the story will be any different.  I still believe son misheard, misunderstood or it was explained very poorly.

[kevberlin]

Didn't go to the meeting but the Guy responded on our Facebook page.  He also believes it to be rubbish and for the same reasons.  He is going to check with the IAM Training Co-ordinator and get back to me though.

 

The part that rings a little true to me is that where they are told to sacrifice view for safety and that would mean riding more in the middle of your own side of the road if for example there was something coming towards you on a left hand bend to save you from being too close to the oncoming vehicle in case it wondered across the white line cutting the corner (as some do).  Same for a right hand bend you would move into the middle if there was an obstruction on your nearside or if the road was rough at the edges.

 

That is the only context I can think of where this would have been mentioned.  As I said before what I was taught and what I taught myself is straight from the Police Handbook and the whole purpose of the positioning is to allow the rider to see as much as is physically possible ahead in order to see what they have to deal with.  I used to take pupils out onto a quiet country road where I knew there was little traffic and walk a bend and talk the pupil through it showing them what you can see by being in the correct position and how much less you can see by not.

 

I will come back when I have heard from the guy again but I doubt the story will be any different.  I still believe son misheard, misunderstood or it was explained very poorly.

Chris.

With you on all that. I always modify my left bend position when there is oncoming traffic..........it is common sense after all.

I will also get my son to double check with his group.

Ride safe

[KenONeill]

Chris.

With you on all that. I always modify my left bend position when there is oncoming traffic..........it is common sense after all.

I will also get my son to double check with his group.

Ride safe

I'd concur, and also note that the usual "scare" I get from "power rangers" is when they try to take a "racing line" on "their right handers", so their buckets have a close encounter with my offside!

[fabiamk2SE]

I'd concur, and also note that the usual "scare" I get from "power rangers" is when they try to take a "racing line" on "their right handers", so their buckets have a close encounter with my offside!

Its alright if you can see round the bend.

But there really arent many bends like that.. Haha

[KenONeill]

Its alright if you can see round the bend.

But there really arent many bends like that.. Haha

That's rather the implied point; they've committed to their line despite neither of us being able to see through the turn.

[kevberlin]

That's rather the implied point; they've committed to their line despite neither of us being able to see through the turn.

Surely if you can see round it, then it does not qualify as a bend...........more of a deviation. Sorry. Just playing up.

[fabiamk2SE]

Surely if you can see round it, then it does not qualify as a bend...........more of a deviation. Sorry. Just playing up.

Theres a few round here, although not many.. Where the surroundings are open enough to see theres nothing there and nothing in the road. Its really quite nice as theyre the only corners i feel happy enough to really get round fast haha.

[Scuff]

This is my advice to students under my instruction.....

Always sacrifice position for safety and/or grip, ie. Move away from oncoming traffic on left hand bends, keep out of debris or rough road surfaces at the edge of the road when taking right hand bends.

You need not position for a view due to the slow speeds involved or the open nature of the bend.

It is the riders responsibility to make the best decision as to their position for a view depending on the physical nature of the bend and the view available.

If it is safe to to so, you may choose to straighten bends by using the offside of the road in order to maintain speed and a more upright machine position for that speed. Due regard must be given to road markings such as double white lines and other potential hazards such as junctions and blind brows.

[fabiamk2SE]

So.. Do whatever you want, basically? Haha.