New Petrol Octavia Estate. 1.8 L & K or 2.0 vRS DSG?

[old newbie2]

The recent comments re. the loyalty bonus offer & 0 % PCP finance has prompted us to consider replacing SWMBO's Octy 2 vRS  hatch with a new car. 

 

We miss having an estate car, & the current Octy is plenty big enough for our needs, but since the current L & K seems to have been upgraded with new & useful toys

we are wondering if we really need a vRS.

 

It seems that the L & K now gets 18" wheels as standard & the "sports suspension"  is a cheap option, will we really notice the lack of performance, & does the 1.8 TSi L & K 

get the proper IRS, ot is that only available on the vRS?

 

I've not yet done a proper like for like price comparison with the two models, but I think that we'd spec. an L & K up to £30k before any bonus or discounts, which is probably

similar to a vRS.

 

I've not seen a current L& K anywhere, & if I do find one in a dealer it's bound to be a diesel, but I'd really appreciate any comments ∨ advice.

 

 

TIA, DC.

 

PS. We really don't want a diesel, we don't do enough mileage.

 

 

 

 

 

[JohnMorr]

You must have been tracking my thought processes. We wanted a replacement for our old L&K but not another diesel (same reason)and the petrol 1.8TSi DSG seemed to fit the bill exactly. They're not that common in the UK (the only demonstrator available was in Scotland!), but at the launch reviewers said it was the pick of the crop but not then available in the UK. If you look for reviews you'll find they're mainly from India.

The ride on 18" wheels is firm but positive - I certainly wouldn't opt for anything harder. And as far as I am aware the L&K 1.8 TSi does have the IRS - the only one apart from the VRS. Power at 180 bhp is more than adequate and comes in a smooth and steady rush. Plus, there are 4 driving modes: I opt for economy, but you could go for sport or manual changes if you want to push on.

There are more bells and whistle than you can shake a stick at - with DSG it will park itself! Haven't had the courage to try that yet ... If you're into music, the latest L&K has a second SD card slot in the glove box - all 160GB of my iTunes library downloaded immediately, complete with cover art. And the Canton sound system in the L&K is simply excellent - full range without the usual bass boominess added for effect which ruins male voices. The latest Amundsen head unit is highly versatile - no need to opt for the £1000 upgrade to the Columbus unless you want a slightly larger screen and the ability to play DVDs - when?

We opted for 3 upgrades - the two-part panoramic sunroof at £1100 which transforms the interior; the £300 reversing camera (not sure if this worth the money - I still prefer to use the wing mirrors - which fold on locking) - and a space-saver spare tyre (a can of foam will not help if you have a gash in the sidewall). And we chose Rio Red, which a supremely elegant colour, verging on russet.

But I have kept the best till last. The L&K 1.8 TSi DSG is simply the most refined car I have ever owned - and my comparisons include a M-B 500S and a BMW 730. The engine is hardly audible, the gear changes absolutely imperceptible and not a squeak or rattle even over the roughest surfaces. Some tyre roar, but that's what you get with 18" tyres.

Our spec came in at a touch over £30,000 and after the usual 15 minute wait (out for a fag or checking up on internet prices?) they came back with the offer of a 10% discount, which I accepted. I would recommend you go on to various brokers' sites and print out their quotes, take them with you and then absolutely refuse to say what you've been quoted - it's up to them to guess.

All in all, I have never been so pleased with a car than with the L&K 1.8TSi DSG. Go for it!

Edited 13 December, 2015 by JohnMorr

[old newbie2]

You must have been tracking my thought processes. We wanted a replacement for our old L&K but not another diesel (same reason)and the petrol 1.8TSi DSG seemed to fit the bill exactly. They're not that common in the UK (the only demonstrator available was in Scotland!), but at the launch reviewers said it was the pick of the crop but not then available in the UK. If you look for reviews you'll find they're mainly from India.

The ride on 18" wheels is firm but positive - I certainly wouldn't opt for anything harder. And as far as I am aware the L&K 1.8 TSi does have the IRS - the only one apart from the VRS. Power at 180 bhp is more than adequate and comes in a smooth and steady rush. Plus, there are 4 driving modes: I opt for economy, but you could go for sport or manual changes if you want to push on.

There are more bells and whistle than you can shake a stick at - with DSG it will park itself! Haven't had the courage to try that yet ... If you're into music, the latest L&K has a second SD card slot in the glove box - all 160GB of my iTunes library downloaded immediately, complete with cover art. And the Canton sound system in the L&K is simply excellent - full range without the usual bass boominess added for effect which ruins male voices. The latest Amundsen head unit is highly versatile - no need to opt for the £1000 upgrade to the Columbus unless you want a slightly larger screen and the ability to play DVDs - when?

We opted for 3 upgrades - the two-part panoramic sunroof at £1100 which transforms the interior; the £300 reversing camera (not sure if this worth the money - I still prefer to use the wing mirrors - which fold on locking) - and a space-saver spare tyre (a can of foam will not help if you have a gash in the sidewall). And we chose Rio Red, which a supremely elegant colour, verging on russet.

But I have kept the best till last. The L&K 1.8 TSi DSG is simply the most refined car I have ever owned - and my comparisons include a M-B 500S and a BMW 730. The engine is hardly audible, the gear changes absolutely imperceptible and not a squeak or rattle even over the roughest surfaces. Some tyre roar, but that's what you get with 18" tyres.

Our spec came in at a touch over £30,000 and after the usual 15 minute wait (out for a fag or checking up on internet prices?) they came back with the offer of a 10% discount, which I accepted. I would recommend you go on to various brokers' sites and print out their quotes, take them with you and then absolutely refuse to say what you've been quoted - it's up to them to guess.

All in all, I have never been so pleased with a car than with the L&K 1.8TSi DSG. Go for it!

 

 

Thank you kind Sir.

 

Very useful info & advice, especially re. using broker prices  to get the best possible deal.

 

I'm passing this on to SWMBO, it's probably going to be her decision, not mine, she's the one who likes the extra oomph.............

 

Thanks again, DC.

[lol-lol]

1.8 tsi l&k best skoda i have owned of the dozen which include 4 vrss. Fantastic synergy of luxury and performance.

[pipsyp]

The L&K on sports suspension regardless of the power deficit still wont quite drive like the vRS.....model specific chassis tuning (the "sports suspension" and stock vRS suspension do differ to some degree)....the vRS also has the progressive steering which without question makes a vast difference between normal and vRS models in how they steer. Brakes are less of an issue as 312mm are fine but the vRS does have 340mm front (basically GTI Performance Pack) rotors which are that bit better still.

I suppose its a case of driving both and seeing what you prefer....also how important are all the toys to you?

Speccing a vRS up to L&K levels of spec will result in an extortionate RRP and will still be an expensive car with discount...the L&K is no doubt better value in this respect but bar its 1.8 TSI engine will be much like any other regular Octavia to drive.

I know I do harp on about it but it is a valid point that the residuals on these really are not v good at all (at present)....say you get a great discount on a £30k car and pay around £25k for it....after 18 months it'll still only be worth maybe £15k....they certainly are not the relatively good bet the Mk2 proved to be.

If you are buying it outright and are keeping it long term you probably dont care that much but forewarned is forearmed.....

If I were going to do anything at all personally....get a vRS TSI DSG and add a couple of "vital" options to it....things like winter pack, folding mirrors and a spare which will make it that bit easier to live with...or just get a stock L&K with sports suspension...I really wouldnt go too to town spec wise on either.

[glosrich]

Also consider a new Superb, newer car with slightly better residuals, not much more expensive either.

The Octavia has been out for almost 3 years. The L&K is lovely but its too expensive for an Octavia.

If you do get one make sure you get a big discount.

www.broadspeed.com is a good discount site.

[pipsyp]

Also consider a new Superb, newer car with slightly better residuals, not much more expensive either.

The Octavia has been out for almost 3 years. The L&K is lovely but its too expensive for an Octavia.

If you do get one make sure you get a big discount.

www.broadspeed.com is a good discount site.

Agreed....at the money you could end up paying for a vRS TSI/L&K....Id be inclined to give a 220/280 TSI SE-L Executive a good look.....I dont think their residuals will prove to be an awful lot better if any but arguably more car for what you'll likely end up paying....being largely based upon the new Passat (and not the Golf) but with alot more stock spec (vs the Passat). Better engine choices too. Edited 13 December, 2015 by pipsypreturns

[lol-lol]

Skoda majorly getting the specs of what they offer wrong.

 

Octavia 3 has the fuel tank ie 50 litres (and therefore range) of a small family car.

 

Superb has a decent sized fuel tank but no 1.8 TSI in the range.

 

Six speed DQ250 is a 12 year old piece of technology that harms CO2 rather than improves it like it should and like it does in BMWs, Jaags and other competitors cars with gearboxes like the better VAG ones and the ZF boxes.

 

Skoda (VAG) need a darn good speaking to IMO. 

Edited 14 December, 2015 by lol-lol

[Redboy]

I don't understand why the range of a small family car is too much of a problem. If it's petrol you can drive for 350-400 miles. Surely you need to stop to have a break after 3-4 hours which is about 300 or so miles.

[glosrich]

Agreed....at the money you could end up paying for a vRS TSI/L&K....Id be inclined to give a 220/280 TSI SE-L Executive a good look.....I dont think their residuals will prove to be an awful lot better if any but arguably more car for what you'll likely end up paying....being largely based upon the new Passat (and not the Golf) but with alot more stock spec (vs the Passat). Better engine choices too.

Yep the new Superb looks great and some good discounts.

The OP was talking about speccing an L&K to £30k, that will probably lose 50% in 1 year.

At that sort of price range you'll get better residuals from the prestige brands.

[lol-lol]

I don't understand why the range of a small family car is too much of a problem. If it's petrol you can drive for 350-400 miles. Surely you need to stop to have a break after 3-4 hours which is about 300 or so miles.

 

I just refuse to have a car that I have to fill up twice in one day when I do some of my 400 mile journeys.  I usually fill up with a fuel card which means going in to the kiosk and the time I would loose ie circa 20 minutes with two fill ups would drive me up the wall.

 

Mk 1 and Mk2 Octavia VRSs and Mk 1 and Mk 2 Fabia VRs could all do well over 400 miles on a tankful and the 1.8TSI, 7 speed DSG, over 500 miles.  When thinking about a Mark three Octavia, petrol of course, the idea of stopping and only getting 42-43 litres, as I heard in the early reports, just steered me in other directions, plus my dealer going from Skoda to Dacia/Renault and they lack of "Skoda pay the VAT" type deals I had before.  Depends if you want a car with long range but do not want a diesel.  See most the high spec diesels are now fitted with SCR, reminds me of my two stroke bike days remembering to get the total loss lubricant.  Residuals losses can be huge unless you get about 20% discount off list.  

Edited 14 December, 2015 by lol-lol

[old newbie2]

The L&K on sports suspension regardless of the power deficit still wont quite drive like the vRS.....model specific chassis tuning (the "sports suspension" and stock vRS suspension do differ to some degree)....the vRS also has the progressive steering which without question makes a vast difference between normal and vRS models in how they steer. Brakes are less of an issue as 312mm are fine but the vRS does have 340mm front (basically GTI Performance Pack) rotors which are that bit better still.

I suppose its a case of driving both and seeing what you prefer....also how important are all the toys to you?

Speccing a vRS up to L&K levels of spec will result in an extortionate RRP and will still be an expensive car with discount...the L&K is no doubt better value in this respect but bar its 1.8 TSI engine will be much like any other regular Octavia to drive.

I know I do harp on about it but it is a valid point that the residuals on these really are not v good at all (at present)....say you get a great discount on a £30k car and pay around £25k for it....after 18 months it'll still only be worth maybe £15k....they certainly are not the relatively good bet the Mk2 proved to be.

If you are buying it outright and are keeping it long term you probably dont care that much but forewarned is forearmed.....

If I were going to do anything at all personally....get a vRS TSI DSG and add a couple of "vital" options to it....things like winter pack, folding mirrors and a spare which will make it that bit easier to live with...or just get a stock L&K with sports suspension...I really wouldnt go too to town spec wise on either.

I'd agree that test-driving both cars would be a great idea, but finding a demonstrator petrol L & K  just might be difficult.......

Residuals might be a problem too.

 

As I said earlier, it's a replacement for SWMBO's Octavia so she might well make the final decision.

 

Thanks for your advice, DC.

[skyjawa]

Loving our 2.0 TDI L&K DSG, there's not that many options left to add, and considering my car is twice the power (a 300bhp F31 330d BMW 3 series Touring with a very high spec) it's high praise from my perspective.

Very impressed so far.

Edited 13 December, 2015 by skyjawa

[Gromle]

Im very pleased with my 1.8tsi 4x4 l&k.

I havent found it lacking in the performance department, overtaking goes like a dream (but my last car was 115bhp diesel Mondeo, so everything seems fast compared to it).

[SurreyJohn]

I too have had 2 L&K Octavia estates, a mk1 with the 20valve 1.8 turbo and a nk 2 which was 2 litre Fsi , both autos

Would like another, but not keen on the brown interior.

As others have said look at the superb se-l, for 30k could have 220 engine (I have tried a demo and DSG is brilliant) and add things like heated windscreen, tri zone climate and a panoramic roof plus some other toys.

Try cars2buy.co.uk website, there are top spec superb petrols with over 20% off, it is really comfortable car.

Probably the only serious comfort alternative is a mercedes c class estate with premium plus pack and the optional air suspension, but that's nearer 36k, although they have a 3k contribution on PCP

Edited 15 December, 2015 by SurreyJohn

[lol-lol]

Im very pleased with my 1.8tsi 4x4 l&k.

I havent found it lacking in the performance department, overtaking goes like a dream (but my last car was 115bhp diesel Mondeo, so everything seems fast compared to it).

 

Interested on what the retail price is on such as car as we in the UK are aware that Norway, as well as Denmark, Sweden and Switzerland have well considered car taxing policies to price those cars with heavy CO2 and encourage electric/hybrid.  Urban myth says you can buy a Tesla for the price of a L&K/Passat/Superb or the like?  Suppose the Tesla not to great in snow maybe?

 

Personally I would like to see Import duties, Excise taxes, VAT/GST dropped to encourage lower CO2 etc.  Roll out of charging point is steady but I would prefer to have a Tesla for £30K/40K Euros rather than a oil burning unit (despite Norway and UK getting a lot, or use to, from oil sales).    

Edited 15 December, 2015 by lol-lol

[pipsyp]

Id be really tempted by an E Class AMG Night Edition of some variety...as the new E comes out sometime next year some very good discounts on the table.

Spec the Premium Plus pack and you get pano roof, Keyless, memory seats, reversing cam and a 14 speaker HK stereo...and its really not wanting for kit anyway.

Lovely bit of kit...just I guess the higher powered engine varieties even with discount are not a cheap car.

[Gromle]

Interested on what the retail price is on such as car as we in the UK are aware that Norway, as well as Denmark, Sweden and Switzerland have well considered car taxing policies to price those cars with heavy CO2 and encourage electric/hybrid. Urban myth says you can buy a Tesla for the price of a L&K/Passat/Superb or the like? Suppose the Tesla not to great in snow maybe?

Personally I would like to see Import duties, Excise taxes, VAT/GST dropped to encourage lower CO2 etc. Roll out of charging point is steady but I would prefer to have a Tesla for £30K/40K Euros rather than a oil burning unit (despite Norway and UK getting a lot, or use to, from oil sales).

Well, cars are expencive up here. Tax is based on co2 and nox emissions, weight and horsepower and 25% vat.

A 1.8tsi 4x4 l&k starts at 401000NOK before any options.

The cheapest Tesla is around 620000NOK, so about the same as a Superb 280Tsi, give or take.

Tesla sells really well here because of no taxes or VAT(goes for all electric vehicles). So compared to cars with similar performance thay are really cheap.

A Porsche Macan GTS costs around 1.300.000Nok

And the e-golf is the most sold car up here this year if I remember correct.

1£ is around 12-13NOK.

The way taxes are here, means that many buy small to medium engines, but load the car with extras, since they really dont up the price that many %.

Edited 15 December, 2015 by Gromle

[lol-lol]

Well, cars are expencive up here. Tax is based on co2 and nox emissions, weight and horsepower and 25% vat.  A 1.8tsi 4x4 l&k starts at 401000NOK before any options.  The cheapest Tesla is around 620000NOK, so about the same as a Superb 280Tsi, give or take. Tesla sells really well here because of no taxes or VAT(goes for all electric vehicles). So compared to cars with similar performance thay are really cheap. A Porsche Macan GTS costs around 1.300.000Nok  And the e-golf is the most sold car up here this year if I remember correct. 1£ is around 12-13NOK.  The way taxes are here, means that many buy small to medium engines, but load the car with extras, since they really dont up the price that many %.

 

It is the sort of Scandanavian (and Swiss) tax policy that I would like to see in the UK ie incentivise people not to buy CO2/NO polluting cars so people lean towards efficient petrol,  hybrid or pure electric through economic choice.  Sorry about all the air pollution crossing the North Sea, ironic it passes over the North Sea oil fields.

 

As the UK looks like it will exit the EU in 2019 the UK will be able to adopt its own taxation policies and the Norwegian (or Swiss) model of doing things will most likely be modeled some predict.

 

Great choice the 1.8TSI, is that the latest engine with both direct and indirect injectors to being down NO like they fit in the Polo R?  Even the 160hp was sweet, felt nicer to drive than the 200hp petrol VRS I found due to the higher read line and match to the 7 speed DSG. 

[harrysprout]

Skoda majorly getting the specs of what they offer wrong.

 

Octavia 3 has the fuel tank ie 50 litres (and therefore range) of a small family car.

 

Superb has a decent sized fuel tank but no 1.8 TSI in the range.

 

Six speed DQ250 is a 12 year old piece of technology that harms CO2 rather than improves it like it should and like it does in BMWs, Jaags and other competitors cars with gearboxes like the better VAG ones and the ZF boxes.

 

Skoda (VAG) need a darn good speaking to IMO. 

Absolutely NOTHING wrong with my six speed DSG on my petrol vRS. Never understand why people bang on endlessly about it's 'supposed' shortcomings. It changes quickly and seamlessly, that's all I want it to do and that's all it does, twelve years old or not. 

[RickTT]

I don't understand why the range of a small family car is too much of a problem. If it's petrol you can drive for 350-400 miles. Surely you need to stop to have a break after 3-4 hours which is about 300 or so miles.

 

I agree on a small family car tank size.

 

I once filled the BMW E60 to the brim in West Yorkshire and then next filled it up in Germany some 12 hours later. 

[lol-lol]

I agree on a small family car tank size.

 

I once filled the BMW E60 to the brim in West Yorkshire and then next filled it up in Germany some 12 hours later. 

Didn't the E60 have a proper 70 litre tank?

With the M5 having a cosumption of about 23 mpg that is needed. At the other end of the scale the 520d had quite a range but slower acceleration than my 1.4 fabia vrs. 530/535d were good balance of go/range imo (and cops etc).

[old newbie2]

Absolutely NOTHING wrong with my six speed DSG on my petrol vRS. Never understand why people bang on endlessly about it's 'supposed' shortcomings. It changes quickly and seamlessly, that's all I want it to do and that's all it does, twelve years old or not. 

Totally agree, we own three DQ250's, they all work as they should & add quite a lot to the driving experience.

 

Maybe having the DSG's attached to nicely tweaked 2.0 TSi's helps, but all three cars are fun to drive, give good economy & allow us to"play with the gearbox" when we are in the mood.

 

It's very possible that the latest transverse 7 speed would be better, & probably a good match for the 280 ps Superb but it's either too expensive or too "good" for Skoda to use.

 

Maybe I'm getting old, but I'm never keen on being an early adopter of new technology, especially in a car!

 

As for the 50 litre gas tank, I'd never want to drive for more than 300 miles without stopping, especially in the UK .

 

DC

[RickTT]

Didn't the E60 have a proper 70 litre tank?

With the M5 having a cosumption of about 23 mpg that is needed. At the other end of the scale the 520d had quite a range but slower acceleration than my 1.4 fabia vrs. 530/535d were good balance of go/range imo (and cops etc).

 

Yeah.. 70 litre tank plus the filler neck to the brim coupled with a 6 cylinder unit, but did weigh 1800kg unladen....

 

sorry op.. going off topic.

Edited 16 December, 2015 by RickTT

[lol-lol]

Totally agree, we own three DQ250's, they all work as they should & add quite a lot to the driving experience.  Maybe having the DSG's attached to nicely tweaked 2.0 TSi's helps, but all three cars are fun to drive, give good economy & allow us to"play with the gearbox" when we are in the mood.  It's very possible that the latest transverse 7 speed would be better, & probably a good match for the 280 ps Superb but it's either too expensive or too "good" for Skoda to use.  Maybe I'm getting old, but I'm never keen on being an early adopter of new technology, especially in a car!  As for the 50 litre gas tank, I'd never want to drive for more than 300 miles without stopping, especially in the UK .

DC

 

It is that the DQ250, in the mark 2 and 3 Octavia, makes the car thirstier, slower, higher CO2 compared to the manual.  Also had 3 DQ250s, thought it a good choice over the 5 speed manual matched with the old 1.9 PD.  With the DQ200, sadly only matched to the similar but shorter stroke higher revving EA888, the 7 speed box makes the car more economical, lower CO2 and more relaxed cruising than the manual.  It has been known for a decade or more that 7/8 speed boxes have advantageous in economy/performance over 6 speed ones and it is typical of VAG to not pass on the better tech to the Skoda brand.  

 

I do not mind stopping every 300 miles/3 hours (or so) but to go back in to the fuel pumps is a pain.  Sometimes I will get hassle with processing my fuel car transaction as the system thinks I cannot possibly be buying fuel so soon so I have to go through extra verification of identity.

Edited 17 December, 2015 by lol-lol