Driving with a dodgy dog bone...

[Octabus]

So, after driving home from work tonight... a little pleased with my repair on the clippy boost pipe and enjoying stable and stronger boost... I made use of it..

 

Then I noticed some odd vibrations, power delivery wasn't quite right, and the car felt like a pit stop was required. My initial thought was a flat tyre and despite the rain, I pulled over and got the torch out. All four seemed fine, nothing obvious hanging down, no flames or puddles etc.. so I set off again. vibrations from the floor pan when backing off revs, and at around 2500 occasionally, and a knocking under the gearstick over bumps.

 

Bit of google and i'm thinking its the dog bone mount.. no wheel hop because its 4x4 and i'm not a skid kid!

 

-Ordered new yellow bush kit from ebay, should land Thursday/Friday.

-no chance of getting anywhere to pick up from motor factors etc due to where I work and the hours I work

-50mile commute daily

-no other option of transport

-what are my chances of not ripping a downpipe/transfer box before new bushes arrive?

-is the ultimate fail mode of the mount still captive (will the metal bits inside hold it in one piece if the rubber falls out?)

-I am capable of driving gently (30mpg!)

 

Many thanks in advance

[devonutopia]

Driving gently with gentle shifting and I believe you will be OK in short term.

[Guest]

I would order a new bolt kit too as they have a habit of seizing in the aluminium housing. Some times better to get another dog bone just in case too. Mine did but then again mine is a TDI and I don't think it had ever been off.

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Edited 5 January, 2016 by Guest

[Octabus]

Thanks for the quick replies, I tend to panic first and think later!

 

I thought about getting a second hand one as a temporary fix but it still means driving about to pick one up. Nearest advertised was 20 miles away and mates are always 'busy' when you need a favour (ever noticed that? maybe just me.. LOL)

 

Hopefully the postlady will be on good form now all this santa sh.. is over and done with!

 

What bothers me most is if the mount would split in two (the bone bit pull out through the part that sits in the cross member) is there a lip inside between the rubbers so the plate on the end with the nut could not physically pass through it? (if that makes any sense at all!)

 

Thanks again

[Guest]

There's a bolt that goes right through the middle of the mount that sandwiches the bush in place so it won't go anywhere as long as you take it easy.

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Edited 5 January, 2016 by Guest

[Octabus]

I've seen all the guides etc so that was what I meant, is that bolt anchored in place (so unless unscrewed) it cannot pass through the backing plate (on the right of your pic)

 

all the pics I had seen just showed the view from above/below but not the middle of the back piece...

 

I've got my answer..

that shows the bit solid with just a bolt hole through the middle - so the last metal bit and nut won't move any further forward if in a worse case scenario, all the rubber dropped out.  :p meaning the whole engine and box can twist round and rip the propshaft, exhaust etc. 

 

I know it won't be doing it any good flopping around but it can only go as far as the thickness of the either bush (which will mostly be still present) just a lot of bangs and clatters and vibration for the next day or two - which I think I can put up with (its a skoda afterall!)!

 

Many thanks for the quick replies, setting off at 7am thinking I was one hard gearchange away from catastrophe wasn't going to help my sleep!

[Octabus]

So, 5 miles into my drive to work and I turned back. Rang round a few parts dealers and I have one arriving for 1pm today (£60!)

 

..huge black rain clouds rolling in as I type, missed a day off work, and £60 out of pocket.

 

Lesson for today is rather than wait until it fails, get the £20 uprated bushes and install when you choose rather than upset your boss, pay 3x more for a standard item (full mount as bushes aren't sold separate) and get cold and wet over what seems to be a very common and easily replaced part!  :|

[Octabus]

     

 

Two 13mm bolt heads snapped off, back of mount seized solid into the subframe......

 

I love my life and the exciting challenges each new day brings me  :wonder:

[Octabus]

2 hours later, lessons learned:

 

-don't underestimate aluminium corrosion. the clearance holes are filled solid, even in the vice the remains of the bolts will not knock out!

-heat doesn't always work

-you cant get in with a grinder

-cutting disc on the dremel are good, but only to give somewhere to get a chisel in

-the 13mm bolts are 45mm long, any longer and they will not tighten up

-dont get copper grease in your beard (if one is fitted) it is unpleasant

 

Method

 

get a full unit, either new one, or second hand one with poly bushes fitted before you start, if the bolts snap, you need to chop up your old one to get it off!

 

1. ramps give some room, but axle stands would be better. never work under just a jack.
2. blast all bolt heads with a bit of WD40 so its can start soaking in early - just in case.
3. 16mm for the two big bolts under the gearbox, 13mm for the two at the back.
4. When the 13mm bolts snap, swear at it, go make a cup of tea, and get the following items:
5. Hammer, metal chisel (smaller ones better so you have a bit more room to swing at it), battery drill with about 8mm drill bit (put the spare battery on charge - you might need it) strong plier type snips
6. try your luck with the hammer first, it might let go - be careful not to miss the mount and hit the gearbox/pipes etc
7. if it falls off with a few bats of the hammer, wd40 the bolt remains and use two M8 nuts over the thread, nipped up to each other to try again with the bolt (or mole grips!)
8. if its not letting go, you will need to break off the two bolt holes from the backing plate, try keep the bit around the bolt thread as this is easy to grip to turn the bolt out later.
9. drill out through the flat bits around the bolt, i got two holes in from the bottom catching the lower and middle fins in one go. use the snips and chisel to remove as much as you can. do the other side the same, then its brute force and ignorance until the main bit eventually breaks free.. 
10. the two bits left should now turn fairly easily if you grab them with the mole grips - time for another cup of tea.
11. clean up the subframe (I blasted a bit of black spray paint over it) dig out some M8 bolts, 45mm long, apply copper grease to FULL length of bolt (the bit that goes wrong is the section that sits in the aluminium) 
12. put the back piece into the hole, finger tight the two front bolts (again use a bit of copper grease for next time)
13. fit 13mm bolts, nip up, tighten the 16's, torque up (you will need to google the settings as i'm an old school farmyard mechanic type!)
14. clean hands, apply plasters, ibuprofen or ice will help reduce the swellings.
15. .. get yourself a nice cup of tea, you've earned it!

 

new pattern part cost £40-£65, I paid £60 because I needed it now. 

[Guest]

2 hours later, lessons learned:

-don't underestimate aluminium corrosion. the clearance holes are filled solid, even in the vice the remains of the bolts will not knock out!

-heat doesn't always work

-you cant get in with a grinder

-cutting disc on the dremel are good, but only to give somewhere to get a chisel in

-the 13mm bolts are 45mm long, any longer and they will not tighten up

-dont get copper grease in your beard (if one is fitted) it is unpleasant

Method

get a full unit, either new one, or second hand one with poly bushes fitted before you start, if the bolts snap, you need to chop up your old one to get it off!

• ramps give some room, but axle stands would be better. never work under just a jack.
• blast all bolt heads with a bit of WD40 so its can start soaking in early - just in case.
• 16mm for the two big bolts under the gearbox, 13mm for the two at the back.
• When the 13mm bolts snap, swear at it, go make a cup of tea, and get the following items:
• Hammer, metal chisel (smaller ones better so you have a bit more room to swing at it), battery drill with about 8mm drill bit (put the spare battery on charge - you might need it) strong plier type snips
• try your luck with the hammer first, it might let go - be careful not to miss the mount and hit the gearbox/pipes etc
• if it falls off with a few bats of the hammer, wd40 the bolt remains and use two M8 nuts over the thread, nipped up to each other to try again with the bolt (or mole grips!)
• if its not letting go, you will need to break off the two bolt holes from the backing plate, try keep the bit around the bolt thread as this is easy to grip to turn the bolt out later.
• drill out through the flat bits around the bolt, i got two holes in from the bottom catching the lower and middle fins in one go. use the snips and chisel to remove as much as you can. do the other side the same, then its brute force and ignorance until the main bit eventually breaks free..
• the two bits left should now turn fairly easily if you grab them with the mole grips - time for another cup of tea.
• clean up the subframe (I blasted a bit of black spray paint over it) dig out some M8 bolts, 45mm long, apply copper grease to FULL length of bolt (the bit that goes wrong is the section that sits in the aluminium)
• put the back piece into the hole, finger tight the two front bolts (again use a bit of copper grease for next time)
• fit 13mm bolts, nip up, tighten the 16's, torque up (you will need to google the settings as i'm an old school farmyard mechanic type!)
• clean hands, apply plasters, ibuprofen or ice will help reduce the swellings.
• .. get yourself a nice cup of tea, you've earned it!

new pattern part cost £40-£65, I paid £60 because I needed it now.

Note:- see second comment lol[emoji12]

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[Octabus]

.....And you were quite correct! (biscuit awarded :coffee: )

 

It looked so simple on youtube! Perhaps I should pay more attention to the advise I'm asking for

[Guest]

.....And you were quite correct! (biscuit awarded :coffee: )

It looked so simple on youtube! Perhaps I should pay more attention to the advise I'm asking for

I have a spare dog bone fully poly bushed and bolt set for if and when I need to remove mine again. [emoji12]

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[Octabus]

Hopefully it will sit there un required!

How often do these need changing? i've heard 50,000 mentioned?

 

I haven't been for a drive yet, I daren't incase it still makes a noise! haha

[Guest]

Once poly bushed they're supposed to last the lifetime of the car. Don't know about standard bushes though. Mine was changed at 100,000 miles and fell apart when removed with grinder, hammer and chisel. Luckily my nephew works for VW so managed to do it for me on a lift.

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[munster]

I did mine the other day, it took me 10 minutes (sorry mate) and that was taking my time.

I think it was the original dogbone as the bushes were absolutely shot to pieces. I could turn it, as far as the metalwork would allow, by hand.

I just bought a standard dogbone as I'm not interested in modding my car.

My car is an 04 what reg is yours octabus?

The clunking disppeared immediately.

 

A few happy snaps in this thread of how far I could twist it:

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/381722-lower-suspension-bush-mot-fail/

Edited 6 January, 2016 by munster

[Octabus]

Some people have all the luck.. :moon:

 

Mines a Mk1 2002 4x4, and my dogbone bushes were as your pic, the worst was the rear one (hidden from sight when installed) it looked like a mouse had tried to chew its way out through it!) the gearbox end one however, seemed fine. I also noticed the rear one was full of water, i'm beginning to think that under engine cover did a good job. My mount looks like it had seen marine service compared to yours!

 

I'm guessing you still have the splash guard thing under the engine? (or only drive in the dry!)

Sadly my guard escaped about a year ago when I drove through a badger.. it wasn't wise to stop and recover the guard, as it fell out the next day onto the front of the BMW that had been tailgating me for several miles prior - he backed right off after that.    Great success!

 

I've been out for a drive tonight, and even replacing with a standard version has made a surprising difference. Mostly in the power delivery, its so smooth now! vibrations and clunking seem to have completely gone. I guess it was worth the cursing and blood loss afterall