In all honesty, how many people actually buy a car on emissions or let the figures play any role in their choice? Only to the extent that lower emissions = lower tax and 'probably' better fuel economy. The whole emissions thing is such a hot potato and all the Euro emissions legislations have killed great engines.

This is a bit silly really. Setting aside the VW emissions scandal, everyone knows it's nigh on impossible to replicate in the real world emission test results that were achieved in the lab. It's not exactly a massive scoop. If the cars in question passed the official tests, all it proves is that the tests are flawed.

If Volkswagen was more trustworthy, honest and open on their cheats,  then the Governments Agencies, magazines, customers would know if they passed the EU Tests without the assistance of the Defeat Device, 

 

But you see that Volkswagen were just careless, knew nothing, 'just a couple of rogue engineers',  

'more than 2 less than 10', 

'not hundreds', 

Fuddle not a fiddle,   nobody lost out, all those greedy Investors just want their money back without real cause.

 

No seniors knew, nobody benefited, no bonuses, no huge salaries, Golden Hand Shakes, Retire Early, walk away,

Say Nothing.

Not the CEO, President, Chairman.  Engineers Engineer / Martin Winterkorn, Chief Engineer, Designers, anyone that matters,

no comprende. 

All called Tommy, Deaf Dumb and Blind, stupid and just conned like the customers and regulators were.

Edited 23 January, 201610 yr by GoneOffskiroottoot

If we're not careful, somebody's going to discover that 'official' mpg figures are not that achievable in the real world.  Heaven forbid 

 

Gaz

Nearly all diesel's and 2/3 of petrol cars. Not a surprise ? I noticed a disconnect between kerb weight, bhp, mpg and emissions in the early 2000's. since then engine performance has seemingly defied gravity as power has increased, mpg improved and co 2 emissions have tumbled. just go back through your old car mags and look at the test data. I would think those who's figures are the most at odds with reality are the worst offenders.        

Remember, they never said the MPG or Emissions were achievable outside a temp controlled building with the car driving from A to B,

just were it was @ 'A'  staying at 'A', on the rollers, and it was just a Comparison with other vehicles.

http://skoda.co.uk/pages/fuel-consumption-statement.aspx

 

Top gear has a good article from a Journalist on how Fast Hatchbacks and other cars years ago used fuel, and how decades later 

the modern Euro 5 / 6 cars do not actually use less fuel, just the Test Results show they could do.

& that Diesels use less than petrols usually, but still not anything like the 'Comparison Test Figures'.

Edited 23 January, 201610 yr by GoneOffskiroottoot

In all honesty, how many people actually buy a car on emissions or let the figures play any role in their choice? Only to the extent that lower emissions = lower tax and 'probably' better fuel economy. The whole emissions thing is such a hot potato and all the Euro emissions legislations have killed great engines.

 

I think the issue for buyer might be the worry of retrospective taxes, fixes or some other sort of hobbling of a car they might buy.

 

Or a misconception that these cars are 'broken'.

 

Lots of people that buy cars are not that bright. You're on a car forum which implies you take interst in these things. Lots of people just think of a car as a washing machine with wheels or a bit of bling to show off with.

In all honesty, how many people actually buy a car on emissions or let the figures play any role in their choice? Only to the extent that lower emissions = lower tax and 'probably' better fuel economy. The whole emissions thing is such a hot potato and all the Euro emissions legislations have killed great engines.

You're spot on.

I couldnt give a **** tbh.

I cant imagine most people do, unless its going to cost them money.

What doesn't make sense to me is why they've stripped it from the entire range. Just because the diesel might be worse doesn't mean that the petrol is suddenly poor as well.

Why not just strip the diesels and keep the award for the petrol version? After all the majority of the things they would have liked such as space, comfort etc still apply.

If we're not careful, somebody's going to discover that 'official' mpg figures are not that achievable in the real world.  Heaven forbid 

 

Gaz

Strangely enough, if you read about US owners' experiences of these cars on somewhere like TDIclub forums, they actually tend to significantly exceed the official mpg figures. The feeling is that because the mpg is rated during the same  process as all the emissions are measured, the number comes out lower than reality, since the engine is running less efficiently - but cleaner for NOx - during the cheated test. Not sure why the European tests don't seem to show this effect. Maybe 'here' mpg is a separate test, and the cheat wasn't triggered. 

The point of the Defeat Device fitted for the US Market was so that the driver would get the better MPG from their 3.7litre US Gallon on the road.

But the car could pass Smog Tests.

 

The University was investigating why it defied science since the road side emission readings on these vehicles was sky high.

Not low Emissions on the road, very high emissions on the road and very high emissions on rolling roads without the Defeat Device Active.

 

VW Cheated, VW USA must have known VW Cheated, the Head of VW North America Region 2007-2010 (Stefan Jacoby) must have known, and the one that came after him. (!!!)

Speculation there obviously, they were not Silly Men though, and if they were they get paid lots not to be very bright.

 

AMERICAN PERSON / LANGUAGE ALERT.

They call in this video Heavy Oil / Diesel / DERV 'Gas' and the Diesel Pump is 'Green' not 'Black'.  ? Or did he fill the car with Gasoline?

Is that 'Green Diesel'?

( Imagine the mis-fuels that could happen in the UK with an American driving a TDI)

Edited 24 January, 201610 yr by GoneOffskiroottoot

What's the size of the US gallon got to do with it?

What it has to do with is how silly or stupid people can be.

 

A car has EU Testing like say a VW Passat TDI or a Ford Focus RS, 

MPG is given in Gallons.  (We buy in Litres in the EU and UK/EU, when was Gallons last up on petrol pumps)

They are Reviewed in Europe and driven and MPG Figures given.  (Imperial Gallon)

Say a VW Passat TDI has a MPG of 69 mpg quoted.

 

Some Americans have no idea that was with 4.456 Litres to an Imperial Gallon,

So in the US their gallon will not get them 69 MPG, even if it ever could in the EU.

 

But funnily in the US some seem to get as far on 3.785 litres as in the UK on 4.456 litres of 'Diesel'.

 

So it has nothing to do with anything, but it has to do with perception, and 'Dumb' car buyers.

Edited 24 January, 201610 yr by GoneOffskiroottoot

Ah, I'm with you.