1.3 pick up , coil pack

[morrispaul]

Looks like my pick up has eaten another coil pack, had the car for about 5 years now and its been faultless, more than earning its keep, when I first bought it I had to replace the coil pack and ECU, lots of help from TEFLON TOM with parts and advice, thanks again tom, been fine since but this morning as I used the pick up for a shopping trip it started missing, then after 1/2 mile or so dropped down to two cylinders, just about managed to limp home, unbolted the coil pack , took the plugs out, pluged them back into the coil pack and got my son to turn the engine over while I watched for sparks, no spark on cylinders 1 + 2 so iam guessing the fault is with the coil pack again......is this a common problem with the 1.3 MPI ?

[morrispaul]

Did a search on this forum to see if I could find my original post.....jan 2011, cars been great since so cant grumble, sorted my tests lamp out and checked the green / yellow + grey / red wires on the coil connector block...both have a good pulse, live and earth wires also good, so looks like I need a new coil pack.....ebay here I come....

[morrispaul]

also plugged in my fault reader last night "no faults stored in this module" bit surprised at that ......search ebay but nothing listed for the pick up,i imagine the saloon is the same but didn`t want to take the risk of getting the wrong one and having to send it back,will try euro car parts on the way home tonight if not i will take a risk on ebay......really need the pick up for work on friday so hope i can sort it in time ...  

[felicia16v]

Coil pack is the same for the car as well..but a fabia one looks the same but is different on the wiring pin positions.

The ecu doesn't know it's not firing as it doesn't do any any resistance checks on the coil pack.

[morrispaul]

Cheers felicia 16v, went to euro car parts today, not the most helpfull of people behind the counter, took the cars details and went off to get the part, the box was the wrong shape to be the right one.didn't need to open it....got a grumpy reply that it was the only one listed so I came home empty handed....will try ebay again later and look at thd car ones....thanks for sharing your knowledge felicia 16 v.......

[RicardoM]

What year is your pick-up?

[morrispaul]

registered 16-12-2000,1.3 mpi...

[RicardoM]

Before buying a new coil pack you should check the wiring going from ignition transformer to ECU for open circuit or short circuit. Even better, check at ignition transformer 4-pin connector for firing signals on pins 2 and 3 during cranking. Only if these tests fail you can blame for sure the coil pack.

 

As for buying new one you can ask for one of the following:

• MAGNETI MARELLI 060717059012
• VALEO 245136
• HÜCO 133824
• HERTH+BUSS ELPARTS 19050021
• BERU 0040102039
• MEAT & DORIA 10394
• SKODA 047905104

Edited 27 January, 2016 by RicardoM

[morrispaul]

Wow, thank you ricardo.......ive done all the checks you suggest and all is good...went into local auto parts place today and they came up with the same coil as euro parts, but when I said it was the wrong one they immediately started searching the parts books and found the right one, ordered on the spot and will be with them tomorrow at 11am, I was in there today at 6pm.....more expensive than euro car parts but worth paying more for the excellent service alone....fingers crossed car will be ready for work on friday, using one of my motorbikes at the moment but lots of tools to take with me which will be interesting if Iam still on the bike :-)

[TeflonTom]

Hi morrispaul. Wasnt yoyr pickup the one where one of the ignition drivers failed inside the ecu i seem to remember?

[morrispaul]

Hi tom.....yes, good memory you got there.it was you who helped me out with a new ecu,99% sure its just the coil this time, guess ive been unlucky having two go in the space of 5 years.....will update tomorrow .....must get on this site more often, just noticed you have a brisky bikers section, thats right up my street :-)

You still got your pick-up tom ?

[morrispaul]

Mmmmmmm....went to local auto parts place on the way home to pick up new coil.......order was placed but not processed :-(.....young lad new to the job....we all got to start somewhere and mistakes are all part of the lesrning process :-).....lost count of the number of times he said sorry :-).......working away tomorrow so wont be able to pick up untill Saturday, will add update then....

[RicardoM]

....lost count of the number of times he said sorry :-)

You should have said smiling "Apologies accepted but that comes with extra 15% discount".

[morrispaul]

LOL.......reminded me of myself at his age......I made loads of mistakes :-)

[TeflonTom]

Sadly no i dont have a pickup any more, my mrs crashed it.

[morrispaul]

nooooooooo...sorry to hear that tom,after all that work....hope mrs not hurt.....we can repair/replace cars but not loved ones.....

[morrispaul]

Update......went to collect the coil Saturday morning from local auto factors, they quoted me £51 when ordered which I thought was fair, seen them on the internet for £40 with free p+p so sounded about right, went to pay and they ask for £114 !!!!!...I questioned the price but theres nothing they can do, once again I come home empty handed....cup of tea and a re-think, look on ebay a good seller selling at £41 inc free delivery and expected to be with me by wed/thurs next week, not bad...been using my motorbike for work this week and getting a bit fed up of getting cold and wet, a fair weather rider me...so plan C....went to skoda dealer,£98.68 but not in stock...did think about going back to local auto factors anders trying to do a deal but think they have wasted enough of my time this week....onto plan D...ive now got the skoda part number from the helpful skoda dealer so iam going to try euro car parts again, not my local one but there main branch in wembly, ask for the part and they offer me the incorrect one that my local branch offered me insisting that was the only one listed, I give them the skoda part number and I also had the old one with me...another search and its found and in stock...not cheap at £73.19 but I have it on the day.....fitted it this morning and a test drive results in a nice smooth ride running on all cylinders :-)

so, all up and running now and I will be warm and toasty on the way to work tomorrow morning....a simple job made hard by people either not knowing what they are doing or simply cant be bothered, be hard for me to use my local auto factor or local euro car parts in future, both on my door step but I think I'll take the 50 mile round trip to wembly next time, sometimes its worth going out of your way for better service :-)

Thanks to all that posted with help and I hope this helps others....the skoda part number 047905104

[felicia16v]

Nice one.

[morrispaul]

Here we go again...........limped home again yesterday on two cylinders, not checked yet but looks like ive blown another coil pack....same two cylinders not sparking, nos 1 + 4...will check for a pulse at the weekend to confirm...so, ive either been unlucky in buying a dud coil pack or I have another fault causing thd coil pack to fail......anyone know if you get a guarantee on electrical car parts ?........think ive seen a sign in local auto parts place that electrical components are not covered .....hope iam wrong....

[RicardoM]

Do you feel confident enough to try repair the coil pack(s) ? They are super simple inside and you could make a good coil pack from two bad ones. If you decide to follow this path, let me know and I will show you what to do. Just take pictures on all sides of newest coil pack and I will annotate them.

[RicardoM]

will check for a pulse at the weekend to confirm...so, ive either been unlucky in buying a dud coil pack or I have another fault causing thd coil pack to fail...

You can't say for sure the coil is bad until you have evidence the following conditions are met simultaneously:

• all wires in the cable between ECU and coil are physically solid (not just a few strands left)
• there is no corrosion / moisture inside connectors
• there is no open circuit in any wire (wiggle & tug while measuring)
• there is no short circuit in any wire (wiggle & tug while measuring)
• there is pulse signal while cranking between pins 2 & 4, and between pins 3 & 4 (you can use a 12V LED test light)

[morrispaul]

thanks ricardo....will test and check on saturday,i still have the old coil  and asssume that there two coils inside the casing one to feed cylinders 1 + 4 the other to 2 + 3 ...are you suggesting to swap the two good coils into one shell to make one good one,i kept the old one with intention to drill the rivits out and see if i can see how it failed......very busy at work at the moment and just haven`t had the time........   

[RicardoM]

It is good you kept the old coil. The idea is to drill the rivets indeed. Inside there are 2 power transistors acting as electronic commutators and 2 fat transformers. That's it. If you know how to solder/desolder, measure resistance, and check transistors you're golden. If both coils are faulty and something went bad inside, it is mandatory to find why. Could be a factory defect or intermittent shorted input pins from bad input cable/connector. Or both coils are good and the fault is input cable (intermittent open/short) or ECU related.

[morrispaul]

Braved the cold this morning and did a few tests with a 12v test lamp at the coil plug....red wire/live...good, brown/earth...good, green/yellow/1+4...good, grey/red/2+3...good.

started the car up and still running on 2 cylinders, no 2+3...so looks like its blown another coil pack.......so taking ricardos advice, there must be another reason for this happening, dont want to just replace the coil only for it to go again, iam tight and dont like throwing money away........

next I checked the wiring to the 4 pin plug on the coil, straight away I can see the wire has been rubbing on the metal bracket thats fixed to the thermostat housing, might be the guide for the wiring but not sure.....two of the wires are worn through to the copper strands, red and green/yellow wires........red is live wire and green/yellow feeds cylinders 1+4.....the two that are not firing, could this be the answer to my problem ?

looks like its been rubbing for a while so could of been the origanal problem five years ago when the first coil went.....wires are sound and strong so I stripped all the old insulation tape of and taped the damaged wires separately and then taped the four wires back up again...checkecked the wiring visually back to the ECU and all looks good......also checked all the scocket connectors on this part of the loom and all are clean and bright.

next step is to try another coil or try and repair the two faulty ones I have...I have soldered in the past but iam certainly no expert....think I'll search ebay for a cheap second hand coil..

Not being able to use the pick up this week has been a right pain but it does feel good knowing I may have found a cause to the problem.

[RicardoM]

In my opinion you have found the original issue as I described previously. A random short between wires is enough to kill one of the two power transistor inside. The one responsible for firing cylinders 1-4. I insisted also on the integrity of each wire because a few strands can't carry enough current to switch on the transistor.

 

I will attach a few photos below to see what is inside and how easy it is (for me, at least) to replace the faulty transistor. You payed for a new coil enough money. Get the remaining good transistor from the old coil and fix the new coil. For free.