Tickover Problem vRS

[VRSD30]

Was sat in traffic lights for a bit earlier and I could feel a minor kick from the engine almost like a slight miss fire, idles ok apart from that and the rpm doesn't fluctuate and it's not a constant vibration. A slight increase in engine speed with the pedal and it stops. Car drives spot on apart from the common BLT stutter up to 2k rpm. 

 

Any ideas? Going in for service tomorrow so will mention it to them. 

[VRSD30]

Well they said there was nothing wrong with the engine after running diagnostics, told me to keep an eye on it! Nothing wrong with the way it drives and it only does it when warmed up.

 

On another note I'm not sure I trust them at all now as the last two times have resulted in arguments between me and the service dept & technicians over correct oil for the PD! Last time I queried the oil on the invoice as it said Shell Helix AG 5w30 which has these specs - API SN; ACEA C3; dexos2, he told me they use it in most cars! After an argument they drained the oil and replaced with a VW 507 spec oil.

 

Decided to try them again, so the car had a service yesterday and I supplied them with some Millers 5w40 EE, went to pick the car up & paid them. Got into my car service book not stamped and there was a bottle of coolant, screen wash and a 1L bottle of Shell Helix AG so I looked at the invoice (should have checked properly before paying) and they had charged me for 4.3L of the AG oil and for the 1L top up bottle totalling £62! So I went back in showed them the oil on the invoice and asked where my bottle of Millers oil is because there should be just under 1L left from the 5L bottle I supplied, he disappeared for about 5 mins to look for my bottle of oil in the workshop and it had been used with just under 1L left in it. He apologised for the mistake on the invoice and gave me a refund back onto my card.

 

Before leaving I said if you had've put that oil in my car then like the last time you would've been draining it out straight away for the correct oil. Then the service manager came out after over hearing and asked what the problem is and I just said if that's the oil you use for servicing PD engines then it's wrong! He said it's the correct oil for fixed intervals on the PD engine, I asked him to look at the bottle and show me where the VW 505.01 PD approval was but there wasn't any VW spec on the bottle at all! Then he said the ACEA C3 means it is suitable for the PD engine on fixed intervals along with most other cars they service. I just said well if you get any PD engines back that you've serviced with top end wear then that'll be the reason and I left. 

 

Always supply your own oil unless you know the garage that you use actually know what they're talking about! 

Edited 25 February, 2016 by VRSD30

[poiuytre111]

PD engined VAG cars are so picky about oil to avoid cam wear (due to narrow lobes and aggressive PD profile) I would always want to do the oil change myself with the right stuff - doesn't help when buying 2nd hand though....

Edited 25 February, 2016 by poiuytre111

[MidWalesVRS]

I have a similar issue.. doesn't do it when it's cold - but once it's warming up or warmed up, it kicks in..

There was a thread a while back..

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/369444-engine-vibrating-a-lot-on-idle/page-2#entry4499566

When mine first began, there was a chap on here that had the same issue and had seemed to of replaced everything that was thought to be causing it - and I don't think he ever got it cured..

Mines getting looked at on the 12th - so may get closer to an answer.. I'm having my cam inspected after looking through the Service history and noticing that the dealer had used Shell Helix which isn't 505.01 or 507.. spoke to the dealer who refuted my claim and said that it would of been oil to those specifications - peace of mind more than anything.

I've seen everything relating from DMF, Injectors, Injector loom, incorrect timing suggested for the judder.

Edited 25 February, 2016 by MidWalesVRS

[VRSD30]

Some of the Shell Helix oils do meet VW 507 or VW 505.01 so maybe OK depending on which Shell oil has been used. 

 

I've had a DMF go on a vRS before and it felt different to what I'm experiencing now constant chugging and it was also rattling and knocking like hell. If it's something to do with the injectors then surely it would do it all the time, cold engine or warm and performance would be affected in some way? Cold idle is perfect and it also drives faultless, when it starts once up to temperature and sitting in traffic you notice it more but increase the engine speed slightly and it stops. 

[MidWalesVRS]

Ye exactly the same as mine.. It's perfect on these icy cold mornings, but once warm it's a pain.. I've forgotten about mine for a while as I haven't sat idle long enough for it to happen.

Wasn't aware of that with regard to the Shell Helix..

Edited 25 February, 2016 by MidWalesVRS

[VRSD30]

There's a few of the Shell oils that do meet the VW specs and the newer ones are not to the usual viscosity that have been available for many years, there's now a VW 507 which is 0w-30 and the Shell lube match shows a 505.01 5w-30 recommended for the PD engine. They only show VW specs on the front of the bottle.

 

0w-30 http://www.shell.co.uk/motorist/oils-lubricants/helix-for-cars/helix-fully-synthetic/shell-helix-ultra-professional-av-l-5w-30.html Says 5w-30 top of page but 0w-30 on the bottle  :wonder:

 

5w-30 http://www.shell.co.uk/motorist/oils-lubricants/helix-for-cars/helix-semi-synthetic/shell-helix-hx7-professional-av-5w-30.html

 

Don't sit idling much myself, but becasue of some road works on my normal route there's some long delays and I notice it more! 

Edited 25 February, 2016 by VRSD30

[MidWalesVRS]

I'm getting it checked more for peace of mind.. it was serviced through a main dealer for 49k, and then once at a VAG dealer..

I've seen too many stories on here of dealers putting the wrong oil in..

With regard to the judder - would the injector loom be a culprit? I know they become brittle and can be intermittent.. but would it not be the same from cold?

Anti-shudder?

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[VRSD30]

I don't know tbh, if it was a fault with the injectors or the loom I'd have thought the performance would be affected and it would still judder when cold? Everything is spot on other than idling judder when up to operating temp, intermittent not a constant judder either. 

Edited 25 February, 2016 by VRSD30

[MidWalesVRS]

Mines going in for some work on the 12th - I'll post here if they find the culprit.. be nice to get to the bottom of it.

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[VRSD30]

How many miles has yours done? Hopefully they'll find the cause! Keep us posted. 

[MidWalesVRS]

Just covered 60k.. [emoji106]

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[VRSD30]

Well I know the DMF is deffo on the way out now! Sat in traffic this morning and for the first time I heard the dreaded DMF rhythmic rattle, it's not too loud yet but put the clutch in and the rattling stops. Whether that's the cause of the vibration at idle I don't know.

 

So what would you recommend, Sachs or LUK clutch kit? 

Edited 26 February, 2016 by VRSD30

[VRSD30]

Ordered a Sachs kit from Darkside. Going to change the clutch release fork while the box is off but can't find any on line, does anybody know where I can buy one from or should I just ask the dealer for the part? Is it worth changing the master cylinder as well?

Edited 26 February, 2016 by VRSD30

[VRSD30]

Still got this problem even with the knackered DMF being replaced. Nothing when cold, get it up to operating temperature and sit at idle in traffic lights etc you can feel it. But if you turn the engine off for a few minutes and restart it the tickover is fine even though the engine is still hot but drive it and then sit idling again and it starts, weird. 

[hutchysrs50]

Try blanking off the EGR valve and see if it stops.

 

Sorry, i havnt read every reply but its possibly injector loom / injector / camshaft wear... IMO.

[VRSD30]

If it was any of those would it not affect the car all the time idling/driving etc? The car drives spot on and the idle problem is random, smooth as anything when started from cold (smooth as a 1.9 TDI can be when cold) .. Sit idling once warmed up to operating temp and you can feel it. Today I was in traffic lights and it started doing it so I turned the engine off and back on straight away and it wasn't doing it, I drove it again and then when I got home I let it idle on the drive for a bit and it started again. Raise the engine rpm to 1500 and it stops. 

Edited 18 March, 2016 by VRSD30

[bigjohn]

If it was any of those would it not affect the car all the time idling/driving etc? The car drives spot on and the idle problem is random, smooth as anything when started from cold (smooth as a 1.9 TDI can be when cold) .. Sit idling once warmed up to operating temp and you can feel it. Today I was in traffic lights and it started doing it so I turned the engine off and back on straight away and it wasn't doing it, I drove it again and then when I got home I let it idle on the drive for a bit and it started again. Raise the engine rpm to 1500 and it stops. 

 

There is a known issue with the PD injector wiring loom contained within the head. Heat and oil hardens it an eventually causes gradual electical failure. Turning off and on would keep resetting the engine management of the injectors - for a while.

 

Cheapish fix though

Edited 18 March, 2016 by bigjohn

[VRSD30]

Is there any way to diagnose the wiring loom fault? Would it show up anything on VCDS? No problems idling when the engine is started from cold. If it was possible cam shaft wear as hutchy mentioned above then I don't think turning the engine off and back on would make it stop, and it would have running problems all the time, cold or warm? 

Edited 18 March, 2016 by VRSD30

[bigjohn]

Is there any way to diagnose the wiring loom fault? Would it show up anything on VCDS?

 

Usually shows up injector open circuit

 

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/201960-replacing-injector-wiring-loom/

Edited 18 March, 2016 by bigjohn

[VRSD30]

Thanks, will get it to the garage next week for a fault scan and see if anything comes up. 

[bigjohn]

Thanks, will get it to the garage next week for a fault scan and see if anything comes up. 

 

This is a common fail on this otherwise great engine (other fails can be vacuum for anti-shudder valve, EGR & operating variable vanes on  turbo , or turbo variable vanes seizing up)

 

The wiring loom has a hard life being sat in hot engine oil and being hammered by vibrations

Edited 18 March, 2016 by bigjohn