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Felicia -98 1.3 MPI start problem [with video]

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  • Author

For the record, the car started this morning. Very humid weather (not rain) and around 10 C. And for whoever reads this in the future, theres a locking clip in the fuse box holding the connectors. Releasing it makes everything easier. The fuse box is now on my kitchen table waiting to be cleaned tonight.

The fuse box is now on my kitchen table waiting to be cleaned tonight.

Perhaps take some pictures?

Oh... and don't forget you have to address the reason why water got in the fuse box. An old windscreen seal and corrosion underneath. Prepare some fiberglass filler, maybe new seal. Look for plugged drain holes in that area too.

  • Author

6:30 AM, humid weather. The car starts on first try. Runs really bad on idle but after driving ~200 m, idle is fine. Only got second start on video though. This really makes no sense :sweat: . There's a video on the second start. I'll link it as soon as it has finished uploading to Youtube.

 

Video from second start this morning:

 

 

The sound from the engine isn't very smooth on first idle, but smooths out after throttling a little bit.

Edited by Ludds

I don't hear anything wrong for an engine during warmup phase. I'd be worried if the engine misfires when fully warmed up.

 

Don't despair, I told you random faults or misfires are a b...h to diagnose. Everything you did so far is not in vain. Call it 'taking good care of an older car'.

 

I just went out to the car to try and see if it had repaired itself, but it didn't start (~12 C, dry weather).

You're funny... That is the wet dream of every car owner and the nightmare of mechanics.

 

Let's wait and see what the VAG-COM scanner will reveal. I suggest familiarizing yourself with its operation by reading the manual.

 

http://www69.zippyshare.com/v/hkkInnIm/file.html

  • Author

VAG-COM has arrived!

 

This is what I got from reading the engine codes:

 

17978 Broken key remote according to google

00525 O2 Sensor- Voltage Low - G39

01247 EVAP Canister Purge Regulator Valve - N80

01087 Basic Setting Not Performed

00282 Throttle Position Actuator - V60

00282 Throttle Position Actuator - V60

00522 Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor - G62

00519 MAP Sensor - Out of Range - G71, MAP Sensor - Voltage Low G71, MAP Sensor Voltage High - G71

00518 Throttle Position Sensor - Signal Out of Range (G69) Also check for loose ECM power relay.

00523 IAT Sensor - Temp High Circuit Low - G42

 

I guess that what I'm to do next is to erase all error codes and take the car for a ride and then read the codes again? Some of the codes has probably occured from me doing troubleshooting.

  • Author

I also had SRS code 00532 Transmission Control Module Relay - Supply Voltage (B+) Malfunction Low Battery of Bad Ground. Supply Voltage.

 

After clearing all codes and driving it until work temperature, turning it off and reading the codes again, all codes are gone. From here I guess I need to declare it healed until it fails on me again and I can read the codes. I don't really understand how I could have owned 7 previous cars without ever having a diagnostics scanner.

I guess that what I'm to do next is to erase all error codes and take the car for a ride and then read the codes again? Some of the codes has probably occured from me doing troubleshooting.

Exactly. If the engine will refuse to start again, do a scan immediately without disconnecting any sensor.

Please remind me if you cleaned the throttle body and then reset it.

  • Author

No I haven't. I will though the next time I've got the space and tools for it. Can I do it with 5-56/WD-40 or should I get some special spray? I checked a video on cleaning the TB and that guy just sprayed cleaner into the TB and brushed it with his wife's toothbrush. Is that good practice unless you want to unscrew the whole thing?

While I totally agree using wife's toothbrush, I would remove the throttle body from the engine. Use carb cleaner. It's good practice to change the gasket under TB for best seal, no vacuum leaks.

Edited by RicardoM

  • Author

Just gave it a search on google. Seems like cleaning/removing the TB is followed by some software resetting. My VAG305 can't do that I'm afraid.

My VAG305 can't do that I'm afraid.

See PM.

 

TB reset procedure

 

Run VAG Com. Turn ignition on. Select 01 - Engine. Select Fault Codes - 02. Only if there are no errors, press Done, Go Back then proceed to Basic Settings - 04. In Group field write 098, press Start. Setting takes less than 5 seconds, developers recommend to wait 20 seconds. Now press Done, Go Back, then Close Controller, Go Back - 06, then turn off ignition. Developers recommend to wait 30 seconds. Start the engine. If the engine has no vacuum leaks, idle must be stable.

  • Author

The problem is error code 17978 Immobiliser. Time to start looking for a solution.

Despite being advertised as working with all VAG cars, VAG305 is not a reliable error codes scanner for Felicia. Error code 17978 is nonexistent for Felicia. VAG305 is a generic OBD2 code reader at best. Just my 2 cents.

  • Author

Ok, but when I google this error code, which seems to be the same for a lot for VAG cars, all problems described in different forum threads are exactly like mine. Runs for a second before stalling. I checked under the cover below the steering wheel where the immobilizer is located. The previous owner has installed an after marked radio, and I found some duct tape and crap on some cables in the rat nest in there. I don't really know what it should look like, but I'll get you a picture of what mine looks like.

  • Author

Pictures here: http://imgur.com/a/kSFyf

 

The duct taped cable it goes to the radio unit. There's also an after marked theft alarm installed. It's remote controlled by a separate remote control. I believe that's why it looks like crap down there.

Oh yeah... aftermarket stuff mounted in a hurry by 'expert' companies 'specialized' in radios and anti-theft systems...

The quantity of tape they use over twisted wires is amazing... yet I've seen much worse than your photos are showing.

 

Ok, but when I google this error code, which seems to be the same for a lot for VAG cars, all problems described in different forum threads are exactly like mine. Runs for a second before stalling.

Well, yeah, on all cars the immobilizer acts similarly when there is a security problem or an electrical fault. But that error code is not shown in any Felicia service manual. That doesn't mean though it can't be a not documented error involved. In your case I can't really see through that jungle of cables if the above experts piggy-backed the wiring of immobilizer. I need better pictures. I think you are on the right track.

 

Note to myself: I have to make a habit of asking people first if they have third party electronics mounted on their car.

  • Author

Update: Yesterday the car didn't start at all (tried several times with hours in between). Today the car started on first try in the AM. In the PM, the car didn't start at all. After reading http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/309863-skoda-felicia-13-from-1999-do-not-start/ I got some inspiration and went nuts with my 5-56 bottle. What gave me the inspiration was the talk about the immobilizer wiring sitting in the upper right corner under the hood, just by the charcoal canister. Those two connectors were drowned in 5-56, and so was the ECU-connectors and the crankshaft position sensor too. Before doing the 5-56 spray and pray, I cleared the 17978 fault code and it started on first try.

 

For how long do you drive your sick car without problems before you consider it healthy again?

 

Another thing: when I do a cold start and then directly go to the highway, the engine usually starts going on only 3 cylinders for a minute or two after the engine getting up to work temperature. This doesn't happen if the engine is warm before going to the highway. I haven't replaced the spark plugs, could it be time to do so?

 

Best regards

For how long do you drive your sick car without problems before you consider it healthy again?

Ask Murphy :) because he is responsible of intermittent, highly improbable (yet happening) issues.

 

Another thing: when I do a cold start and then directly go to the highway, the engine usually starts going on only 3 cylinders for a minute or two after the engine getting up to work temperature. This doesn't happen if the engine is warm before going to the highway. I haven't replaced the spark plugs, could it be time to do so?

Not sure how you decided the engine runs exactly on 3 cylinders, but if you refer to a misfire condition, yes, that is most often related to an electrical or ignition issue. Going from simple to complex, it could be ignition-related wiring, ignition connectors, spark plugs, cold joints inside ignition 'coil'.

  • Author

Could it keep 110km/h (~70mph) on less than three cylinders? Giving it full throttle doesn't even accelerate the car.

I can't confirm. I usually don't continue driving a car having such performance issues. Unless it's a life & death problem.

 

If it's a spark plug issue, you'll know it easily by stopping the car when it's misfiring and looking at the spark plugs. Although, to be honest, the misfire condition could have many causes. As I've said, most of the time on Felicia it's electrical / ignition related, but each car behaves different. Could be injector(s) for instance. Clogged nozzle or bad coil. Have a look at them too and measure their resistance (15...20 ohms)

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