Tenants Not Paying Rent..... Any experience?

[Tilt]

If they are in receipt of housing benefit then I think the relevant office can be contacted and the dwp will do something about that. I hated it when they started paying us the rent instead of straight to the landlord, we asked them if they could keep paying the landlord but they point bank refused - said it could only be done under exceptional circumstances (like us not paying our rent)

In my way of thinking at least, if they are claiming housing benefit but not paying rent, then they are committing fraud!

[cheezemonkhai]

http://www.experian.co.uk/rental-exchange/housing-providers.html

 

Perhaps could be useful, if not now, then in future?

['daiking']

You should know, mac!..................................................You drove past it the ither day, Lol.

The question is, can you sort them out for him?, or do you know someone who can?

Bugger 'legally' imo.

You're worse than the tenants imho.

Agree with aspman, I don't know why anyone would deal with tenants and should be left to government and social providers.

I wouldn't want to be dealing with temants in my dotage any more than I'd want some senile old people to be my landlords.

The U.K. Rental market is a Shocking state of affairs. A plague on everybody's houses.

[Evil]

A plague on everybody's houses.

How so?

[FUBAR]

In my way of thinking at least, if they are claiming housing benefit but not paying rent, then they are committing fraud!

 

 

If they are in receipt of housing benefit then I think the relevant office can be contacted and the dwp will do something about that. I hated it when they started paying us the rent instead of straight to the landlord, we asked them if they could keep paying the landlord but they point bank refused - said it could only be done under exceptional circumstances (like us not paying our rent)

 

The issue gets more complicated when the landlord works in said office ridiculously, although fraud is a separate department within. Having the ability to access information on them is a real shame as it's not allowed to just nosey around without assigned case or cause. All accessing is recorded and must be justified. To do so would be highly illegal, internally gross misconduct and pension threatening. So that side is closed until after house possession side resolved, as leaving any ability for an accusation could stir up all sorts of trouble. Have to get an update on all of this tonight ref insurance etc and chase the parents along. I want to see what dates are looking like for each stage too. 

[fabdavrav]

Been there done that....NEVER will I be a landlord again..& neither will my mother Way too much rights which were supposed to clamp down on the "scum" landlords, but ends up ballsing up those who want a bit of money as a pension pot...

 

I had to "politely" give notice to my last lot as selling the property, gave them almost double the time to leave compared to legal time. Unfortunately they smoked & thought they could leave the place stinking (they said they would only smoke outside), so I told them in the notice to quit they had to clean the place as per the contract. They decided not to! Also they wanted references for other places so as they are legally binding (the papers were as such from the estate agents they were using). So had to tell the truth about them which they did not like & did delay them leaving. This also made them more resentful..

 

So cost me £1,700 to get the place cleaned, took them to a small claims court myself, won, but was only awarded £900ish as basically they have to bee seen to be even handed....we went via proper accredited agents who did all the checks etc, always. My mum has been renting property since 1988ish, & tenants are getting worse, some are fine, no problems, but half are now a problem..too many stories of being threatened, etc.

 

One was a convicted pedo, the police were hiding him, so we did not know, & even the agent did not, but his case worker acted as his sister....thing is word got out because someone in our town recognised him & we found out, what made it worse he had the same first name as me & the property was the same address as my house (annex) & I ran a business in the town...so you can just imagine people putting 2+2 together...

 

Basically read up on the correct law & realise what they will use as law....

[Aspman]

Is it insured?

 

Could you wait till they're out and burn it down.........accidentally

Edited 18 April, 2016 by Aspman

[cheezemonkhai]

To be honest if they're not paying, the sooner you start with eviction proceedings the better surely?

['daiking']

How so?

Because housing is a mess. We're a first world country with more than enough space for everyone and yet people are squeezed into sub standard housing due to whatever wheeze you can think of. Be it planning restrictions or the sort of credit conditions that allow anyone to buy up a house and rent it out without the knowledge and resources available to sort out typical problems.

As in this case. any actions to chivvy along the miscreants could be construed as illegal and the due process to evist is quite long winded and the people who should know this (landlords) are often lacking. So yes we should all be ashamed.

[Evil]

Don't understand how that amounts to a plague on everyones houses but I'll take your word for it. 

[Tilt]

You're worse than the tenants imho.

 

Nice of you to say so, in your honest opinion.

 

But I pay my mortgage (after paying rent, in full and on time, for around fifteen years) I pay my council tax, bills etc and everything else on time.

And (apart from my mortgage) I do not owe anybody anything.

 

And that includes you.

 

It doesn't really say much about you, if you think I am worse than the non paying tenants, imho.

[john999boy]

[KenONeill]

I saw an advert for a company calling itself "CIA Landlord Insurance" yesterday. How about changing insurer to them, and then asking them to get their "wetwork" division to look after the issue?

[cheezemonkhai]

Where are some of the old members when you need them?

 

JRHartly used to advicate kicking their back doors in, which I feel would at least be amusing at this point.

[vindaloo]

Not..... The fly fishing bloke?

[VWD]

If you require access for an inspection, how about sending in landlords agent with gas fitter ( servicing gas appliances) , or you've just realised that your electrical certificate needs updating. In the case of gas( at least) ,you as landlord have right of entry( in UK ,anyway) , to allow for gas servicing. In the UK, landlords can get a court order to enter a property to ensure that gas appliances conform to the safety standards.

And of course ( if the gas /electrical bloke ) finds something untoward, then they have legal powers to disconnect supply .

Just ideas

[FUBAR]

If you require access for an inspection, how about sending in landlords agent with gas fitter ( servicing gas appliances) , or you've just realised that your electrical certificate needs updating. In the case of gas( at least) ,you as landlord have right of entry( in UK ,anyway) , to allow for gas servicing. In the UK, landlords can get a court order to enter a property to ensure that gas appliances conform to the safety standards.

And of course ( if the gas /electrical bloke ) finds something untoward, then they have legal powers to disconnect supply .

Just ideas

 

Yea landlord can enter the property here to inspect it in general simply by giving notice to do so. Issue on that front is that the tenants are refusing access essentially. Since the whole thing is at the stage it is it merely is an addition to the civil matter and force cannot be used to gain access to a landlords inspection. Thinking about it the other day as I was in the area and drove past again, the stay at home mother with her car......... She has a and I am not exaggerating 20 second walk to walk the kids to school from the front door and has the entire town within sub 5 minute walk where all supermarkets deliver same day and the big national chains as per their normal way. WTF is she even doing with a car in the first place and how when not working at all....

 

I have been totally uninvolved in the matter of late due to being pre-occupied with issues at work and need to get an update on what the score is now. Another month has started with them still in there 8th free month entered! 

 

[VWD]

I was thinking more of gas equipment servicing, and the LEGAL requirement in LA ( possibly also in shorthold) tenancies for the tenant to allow the landlords agent access to service the gas equipment. Of course, the gas man will also be on the lookout for any foul play with the electrics .

On the car front- possibly could be a mobility vehicle, but why not play her at her own game and have a word with Benefits fraud. With the older DVLA tax checks , any car on mobility tax exemption showed up. These days ,it's not so certain, but again a call to DVLA , might throw something up ( car shows up on  vehicle enquiry as not taxed - is on line site right) ,if NI system is as per UK system. Reason I know DVLA are helpful is that I've got a "from home " car dealer over the road and often there's a few non taxed cars sitting outside. Vehicle enquiry site can be a few days out, so they are happy to say if there's an application in process ,making the car taxed ,but not showing. Get out for you on DVLS is "suddenly " realising " that you "must" have copied the number down wrongly.

[FUBAR]

Just had a phone call update of sorts. I drove past the place as usual on Friday and noticed no cars parked in drive for first time in months, but still stuff in windows etc. I meant to swing by again for another and closer look, but forgot all about it. Call from parents that apparently they have move out a week ago ish without letting anyone know. House is trashed, all carpets and floorings were brand new need ripped out and every room/wall inside needs repainted. 

 

Now here is the annoying bit(s), they have not formally said they have given up the property and as such with going in and changing locks now risk giving them grounds to claim illegal eviction etc without them confirming in writing that they have left....

 

Now for the really really really messed up thing, when parents went to look at house and discovered the state they have left it in, they found a dog and 6 puppies abandoned in the conservatory, which aside from the cruelty side of things for the animals, have had nowhere to go and with mid 20's temps for over a week....... heated floor in there likely wrecked now too. 

 

UPDATE**

I have just found listing on gumtree for the puppies at £200 each pics taken at the house, money already taken for the male one and listed as not ready to leave the mother for another 3 or 4 weeks. They also have another listing for 'grow bulbs' a collection of about 6 or 7 and nothing else suggesting they are good for 'growing tomatoes' and that they have other stuff not listed and to call about it...... I want in the house now, specifically the attic! You do not need '£1200' worth of grow bulbs to grow tomatoes in that house when I built a big greenhouse in the back garden some years ago and there are large planters out back too. Pics on the sale listing go quite in depth as to the spec of the set up and list a lot of equipment, pictures show it all in a dismantled state with A LOT of extension leads and plug in timers etc and some big cylinder things.......  

Edited 7 June, 2016 by FUBAR

[cheezemonkhai]

Yea landlord can enter the property here to inspect it in general simply by giving notice to do so. Issue on that front is that the tenants are refusing access essentially. Since the whole thing is at the stage it is it merely is an addition to the civil matter and force cannot be used to gain access to a landlords inspection. Thinking about it the other day as I was in the area and drove past again, the stay at home mother with her car......... She has a and I am not exaggerating 20 second walk to walk the kids to school from the front door and has the entire town within sub 5 minute walk where all supermarkets deliver same day and the big national chains as per their normal way. WTF is she even doing with a car in the first place and how when not working at all....

 

I have been totally uninvolved in the matter of late due to being pre-occupied with issues at work and need to get an update on what the score is now. Another month has started with them still in there 8th free month entered! 

 

 

You're talking about bad landlords by your last post right?

 

Your tennants have the right to quiet enjoyment and you have no right whatsoever to inspect the property, except at the move in and move out dates.

They could trash it in between, then repair it to as good or better that when they moved in and that's fine. Not ideal I agree, but legally fine.

 

I really wish people who stop thinking the right to inspection is normal.

 

What you do have, is your tennant may not refuse you access to the property to carry out esential maintainance or work which requires doing to maintain the fabric and safety of the building.

You do still have to give them reasonable notice and they can refuse and give an alternative date (again within reason).

 

If you suspect drugs are being grown and have evidence, get the police in to enter (you have a key you can give to them).

If you suspect animal cruelty, same goes for RSPCA.

 

Entering the property, without their permission, is infact a breach of their tenency agreement.

 

I would suggest that you serve notice to them of their eviction (Assuming that the fixed term has passed) giving them the minimum legal notice to vacate.

If they are in the fixed term, send them notice saying they must leave when it is up.

 

Also if they owe you rent, start court action for eviction. All this playing around won't get you anything, but could open you up to a rather nasty legal bill from them.

 

Also make sure you speak to the deposit scheme and let them know in advance there are rent arrears and as of now, you would ask they put a note on file. It makes life much easier at the end if needed to dispute it.

[FUBAR]

You're talking about bad landlords by your last post right?

 

Your tennants have the right to quiet enjoyment and you have no right whatsoever to inspect the property, except at the move in and move out dates.

They could trash it in between, then repair it to as good or better that when they moved in and that's fine. Not ideal I agree, but legally fine.

 

I really wish people who stop thinking the right to inspection is normal.

 

What you do have, is your tennant may not refuse you access to the property to carry out esential maintainance or work which requires doing to maintain the fabric and safety of the building.

You do still have to give them reasonable notice and they can refuse and give an alternative date (again within reason).

 

If you suspect drugs are being grown and have evidence, get the police in to enter (you have a key you can give to them).

If you suspect animal cruelty, same goes for RSPCA.

 

Entering the property, without their permission, is infact a breach of their tenency agreement.

 

I would suggest that you serve notice to them of their eviction (Assuming that the fixed term has passed) giving them the minimum legal notice to vacate.

If they are in the fixed term, send them notice saying they must leave when it is up.

 

Also if they owe you rent, start court action for eviction. All this playing around won't get you anything, but could open you up to a rather nasty legal bill from them.

 

Also make sure you speak to the deposit scheme and let them know in advance there are rent arrears and as of now, you would ask they put a note on file. It makes life much easier at the end if needed to dispute it.

 

The right to inspect is in place within the signed tenancy agreement and this does not effect the tenants 'implied covenant of peaceful enjoyment'. As stated previously the tenants in their 'games' suggested and offered to allow the property to be visited for an inspection,  to show they are looking after it 10 months ago having stopped paying rent as part of their long practised career in how to try and buy as much time as they can without having to pay before the legal process starts, this was not requested or demanded and when my parents accepted 'their' offer and said they would like to, the tenants then refused and went into lock down on all communication..... 

 

Animal welfare side, the RSPCA doesn't operate in this country, local council dog warden has been made aware, but ultimately since they are trying to sell the pups for £1200 they have moved locally again to take on their next victim and just don't want the mess in their new soon to be squatted in house and likely visiting regularly to put food and water out. Local council dog warden is the port of call on the matter and can only start his process in line with the legislation here. By the sounds of it he can't do much if they are being fed etc.

 

Entering the property has been carried out after neighbour expressed concerns over the animals(having seen them move out a week before, but still hearing the animals inside) and was done following advisement from the police since the only person with keys they can find is my parents....

 

You need to read all of the thread ref eviction process and how it has been done fully in line with the legislation here to date. They moved in with BS references from their last victim writing favourably in order to finally get them out, they stopped paying rent after 1 or 2 months and tried to give reassuring excuses to buy as much time as possible before the landlord finally starts hemorrhaging money on the slow eviction process. They have seemingly abandoned the property with no contact, no forwarding address, no replying to phone or email etc. This leaves it in a further mess with regards to them being officially out and parents able to attain full legal possession again, still requiring a possession order. But the right to enter the property to inspect it remains a legal one here at least and all that is required is to post a letter to the property giving notice of your intention to do so (no set period of notice), Council official can accompany you to decide if it has been abandoned and you can then change the locks and display an abandonment notice etc etc. 

The big thing here is that for all intensive purposes they have moved out, but with the dogs still there this could not be determined. At moment neighbour will call and report any visit to the property and if they don't visit to attend to the animals within 24 hours the dog warden will be able to go in and hopefully take them away leaving his paperwork for them. Then can attempt trying to get environmental health guy from council to go come to enable the above. Then if they do not want to sign to agree they have abandoned the place, it remains secured pending courts possession order in about 2017, before vacant possession can be reinstated to repair the property and put it on the market.

 

I have a sinking feeling that these people do this in this way in order to entice the landlord to just see its empty and go change locks and get on with their lives, enabling them to claim unlawful eviction and blackmail into landlord dropping all claim they have to arrears etc to make it go away...... Not going to give them the satisfaction. 

 

Police and ad I saw side of things, the equipment and extent of it speaks for itself as far as I am concerned, but they have emptied the property the sale ad is a new account with a different name given. The property has nothing for the police to see in it and if they are selling the set up it would suggest they are not continuing with the process where they have moved to. My natural reaction is to see if the police would bring a dog around to the house to see if it indicates etc. But at the end of the day, that wouldn't prove it to be anything to do with current tenants, nor does the possession of the equipment for 'growing tomatoes'. Sadly the police here can't even convict a terrorist caught red handed with full trace DNA at the scene and drugs are controlled by the IRA.... Could be a dangerous act of futility when there is almost no prospect of anything being done regardless. 

Edited 7 June, 2016 by FUBAR

[fabdavrav]

The right to inspect is in place within the signed tenancy agreement and this does not effect the tenants 'implied covenant of peaceful enjoyment'.

ETC ETC

 

Also in the small print there is a right of a landlord to get immediate access in case of emergency, I used that when a tenant went on holiday & allowed the taps etc. to be on & flooded the place. I got a phone call from downstairs property went in had a look, went upstairs knocked on my property, no answer, went in turned of the water supply & cleaned up the mess.

 

I then broke the tenancy agreement by carrying out repairs (the hot water heater etc were faulty/leaking for ages & they didn't bother to tell me) (repairs supposed to be at their convenience), & they did have a go at me when they came back from holiday about it, but I stated to them, "well would you have preferred no water in the property & then several days of repairs when you came back from holiday? " They went a bit quiet at that point!

 

Had a tenant want out on a date (quit the agreement), agreed, they took meter readings, moved their stuff out & demanded their deposit there & then. I refused as I said I need time to look over & check utilities etc & anyway I have 30days under the standard agreements. They didn't like it & said they will get it back, threats etc, I changed the locks following early morning, they came back the next day, can't get in! Next thing I get a call from the Police, telling me to let them in, & threatening to arrest me. So I stated to them that the tenant wanted to leave on the date, took meter readings on the date, removed all there stuff, so the property is not theirs after 12 midnight that date. Also they threatened to do damage, I also quoted to the officer Scots law on tenancy agreements & said I was prepared to repeat what I stated in a court of law.

 

The police officer went quiet....  .....so did the tenants....

 

 

I have been involved directly & indirectly via my parents in renting out properties since about 1988, & we have pulled out totally, too many problems in the past 10yrs with people not caring, & trashing the place.

 

The general attitude is "I pay my money & that's it I can do what I want!"...that's even if you get the money!

Edited 7 June, 2016 by fabdavrav

[GentleGiant]

Actually, I think the Police can take action if they suspect the equipment is being used for illegal drug cultivation; many years ago my neighbours were raided for just this - they actually went around making and SELLING the equipment.

 

The waters are clouded by the fact the Rozzers found plenty of drugs stashed around the house and garden as well (£70Ks worth in a Tesco bag, hung in a bush) - but missed the meter long cylinder of white powder hidden in the sewage pipe.

 

I found that when it came loose and blocked the shared pipe to the septic tank a few months later. As I didnt hate the Police back then, I decided to spare them coming and digging through gallons of poop for the bag, which anyway,  I had punctured in my efforts to cure the blockage, so would probably be completely dissolved by the time they arrived.

 

(I hear the bacteria at the local S.T. sewage treatment works were as high as kites for weeks).[JOKE ALERT]

Edited 7 June, 2016 by GentleGiant

[GentleGiant]

As an aside, the neighbours arrests buggered up MY credit rating for nearly a decade afterwards; even though the practice was totally illegal and unwarranted, there was a note attached to my credit records at Experian detailing the drugs bust. To this day I dont know exactly what the note said (because officially it didnt exist!!), I only know about it because one of their staff took pity on me and told me about it being the reason no one would give me credit, even though my credit score was perfect.

[gadgetman]

As an aside, the neighbours arrests buggered up MY credit rating for nearly a decade afterwards; even though the practice was totally illegal and unwarranted, there was a note attached to my credit records at Experian detailing the drugs bust. To this day I dont know exactly what the note said (because officially it didnt exist!!), I only know about it because one of their staff took pity on me and told me about it being the reason no one would give me credit, even though my credit score was perfect.

What absolute piffle.