Does anyone have any reports of owners who have had warranty work refused because of A) tuning boxes?

remaps?

 

 

Obviously nobody who has had warranty work done despite remap/tuning box and got away with it is going to admit it, but are there any reliable confirmed reports of warranty refusals?

 

 

Has anyone had any arguments over non-drivetrain warranty claims that a manufacturer has refused without proper justification.

 

 

Just interested.

 

 

I realise that there may be reporting-bias where owners may under-report refusals, because they feel embarrassed that tuning their car was a risk that ultimately cost them a fortune.

It's worth doing some research on this. In the US the manufacturer cannot dispute or refuse a warranty claim unless they can prove that the part or modification has directly caused the warranty claim. So for example, if you fitted an aftermarket panel filter (K&N etc) then had a warranty claim for a failed injector, then that could not be put down to the filter, as it's air not fuel related modification.

Same could be said for remapping an engine - manufacturers quite often use the same bare engine (block/head etc) across different models with different states of tune. As an example, the 1.8T we are all familiar with, had several power levels - most common being 150, 180 and 225 bhp - the differences being ecu maps, manifolds, injectors etc - so in theory, a 150hp engine, remapped to the same level as a 180hp engine, should still last have the same level of reliability, and hence in the event of a claim, then it would have to be proved that the mapping was responsible for the failure (whatever failed in the example) - and that is where it would get sticky, as the manufacturer would probably dig their heels in and dig out the small print resulting in legal problems - which is why most people don't bother.

 

Orville knows a lot about warranty issues......

It's worth doing some research on this. In the US the manufacturer cannot dispute or refuse a warranty claim unless they can prove that the part or modification has directly caused the warranty claim. So for example, if you fitted an aftermarket panel filter (K&N etc) then had a warranty claim for a failed injector, then that could not be put down to the filter, as it's air not fuel related modification.

Same could be said for remapping an engine - manufacturers quite often use the same bare engine (block/head etc) across different models with different states of tune. As an example, the 1.8T we are all familiar with, had several power levels - most common being 150, 180 and 225 bhp - the differences being ecu maps, manifolds, injectors etc - so in theory, a 150hp engine, remapped to the same level as a 180hp engine, should still last have the same level of reliability, and hence in the event of a claim, then it would have to be proved that the mapping was responsible for the failure (whatever failed in the example) - and that is where it would get sticky, as the manufacturer would probably dig their heels in and dig out the small print resulting in legal problems - which is why most people don't bother.

 

Orville knows a lot about warranty issues......

 

All sounds fair and true, except the likely things to go are going to be turbos and the bits bolted on the engine, which generally are uprated for each different engine power output. 

 As an example, the 1.8T we are all familiar with, had several power levels - most common being 150, 180 and 225 bhp - the differences being ecu maps, manifolds, injectors etc - so in theory, a 150hp engine, remapped to the same level as a 180hp engine, should still last have the same level of reliability,

 A remap uses a higher boost pressure than any of the standard levels of power do therefore any issue with the engine at all, mechanical or otherwise could still be blamed on the remap due to the extra levels of torque delivered low down in the rev range if the map is aggressive or done badly. IMO its not worth the hassle of trying to argue with them because they will end up winning the case no doubt and you will have to pay for anything that has broken whether its down to the remap or not.

 

That said, I'm not sure they go to the lengths of checking for a remap but they may notice a tuning box if you have left it on the car and they would maybe notice if they took it for a test drive.

There are a few internet legend horror stories of people having engines go pop, and then warranty refused because of modifications. Just Google and ye shall find when they happen, it tends to have big financial repercussions for the owner :(

However, they are very few and far between. Most warranty repairs are honoured because-

1. the mods have been removed

2. The dealer tends not to delve too deep

3. Often the mods don't actually have an influence on the warrranty claim

Its a risk, albeit a small one if you take that route. Depends on your risk / reward strategy

There are a few internet legend horror stories of people having engines go pop, and then warranty refused because of modifications. Just Google and ye shall find

 

I have no doubt there are, but google is big and so the true incidence may be tiny.

 

I wonder how often the manufacturer delves right into the vehicle or just lets the dealer get on with a paid warranty claim.

 blamed on the remap due to the extra levels of torque delivered low down in the rev range if the map is aggressive or done badly. 

 

I have seen elsewhere that "extra torque low in the rev range" is particularly punishing on vehicles.

 

Is this evidence based?  is there sound engineering behind it? or just perpetuation of a widely held myth?*

Is low down torque genuinely more harmful than say 50% or 75%  of the way through the rev range?

 

 

*No disrespect meant.

I have seen elsewhere that "extra torque low in the rev range" is particularly punishing on vehicles.

 

Is this evidence based?  is there sound engineering behind it? or just perpetuation of a widely held myth?*

Is low down torque genuinely more harmful than say 50% or 75%  of the way through the rev range?

 

 

*No disrespect meant.

 

To be honest I don't really want to answer that question because I'm not 100% sure myself but I do believe there is some truth to it.

I have seen elsewhere that "extra torque low in the rev range" is particularly punishing on vehicles.

 

Is this evidence based?  is there sound engineering behind it? or just perpetuation of a widely held myth?*

Is low down torque genuinely more harmful than say 50% or 75%  of the way through the rev range?

 

 

*No disrespect meant.

 

 

To be honest I don't really want to answer that question because I'm not 100% sure myself but I do believe there is some truth to it.

Low end torque can put extra load on the drive train from the flywheel down, but it doesn't really cause more stress inside the engine, since stress there is a factor of inertia on reciprocating parts and not torque.