How Much Quieter are the MkIIIs over the MkIIs ?

[Meow]

Consider separately please :

 

1)  The EA288 diesels over the previous ones. The MkII engines were agricultural compared to ordinary priced Ford and Peugeot, let alone expensive Merc and BMW. Has there been an improvement ?

 

2) The extent to which Skoda have bothered this time, to build in a good insulating firewall between engine and passenger compartments, like Audi do.

 

3) Insulation from road noise compared to the MkII (  especially since Skoda stupidly deny the customer choice of smaller and quieter wheels as you go up the range )

 

4) Whether this time, as you go up the spec levels, you might actually get better sound insulation because of the spec ? Or is it the same on a forty grand L&K as it is on an eighteen grand S, except the wheels on the "luxury" L&K will be droning louder than those on the S !

 

Thanks

Edited 21 September, 2016 by Meow

[Norian]

@Meow:

 

1. I wouldn't say that Superb MK2 diesels were agricultural - if we're talking about CR engines (2010 onward fitted). EA288 EU6 diesels are not quieter, their main characteristic is compliance to EU6 regulations (less emisions). From the test drives I've done in EA288 diesels I got the feeling they're very liniar in response and delivery of power, but somewhat missing the punch. 

 

2 & 3. The Superb MK3 is quieter in the cabin that MK2 when rolling. I was amazed how quiet they are at 75mph cruising, but that depends a lot on tires fitted. I compare the demonstrators to my 18'' fitted MK2. The demonstrator had also 18'' (different size in width and wall) and was quieter, but demonstrator with 19'' fitted was deffinetely as loud as my 18'' fitted. Again, easy fix by changing tires, the OEM Pirelli P7 are not that quiet compared to Contis or GYs

 

Regarding Audi's insulation - no comparison to that - to be honest. I've tested the new A4 diesel and an A6 diesel and theiy are way more quiet. Mind you that Audi have the habbit of wrapping the whole engine bay in a "carpet" type insulating material, including the plastic shock shield beneath the engine and this is really impacting noise. In a modern Audi you don't realise -by noise level - that you're driving a diesel. Even the vibrations of the diesel at standstill are eliminated (or not felt inside the cabin) 

 

4. From my perception after different driven MK3s, I would say is the same insulation for all Superbs. The difference is noise is only perceived by chosing different types of upholstery. I had the feeling that Alcantara seats are giving just a little bit more of silence in the car, but perhaps it's just a placebo for me...

Yes you are right, perhaps the quieter one is a top of the range (because of upholstery) fitted with carpet mats (not rubber mats - Skoda in the brochure are saying that carpet floor mats are quieter than rubber ones... ?) and fitted with 17'' low noise tyres (not long mileage type if tyres, as they are hard in compound thus noisy)

 

My 2 cents

Edited 22 September, 2016 by Norian

[Meow]

1)

 

The notion that the new EA288 engine would be quieter was the one thing that I expected to be true and to see fans to say, yes it is. I actually have seen comment elsewhere that it is. I'm surprised to see you say they are not quieter. Thus far, I'd tend to believe there is an improvement. I must disagree with the older engines as seen on the MKII. Yes I have the CR which is said to be an improvement on the very old PD, but you know really, compared to Peugeot and Ford units it truly is a rough one. I'm glad ( other ) people say the new EA288 is better.

 

2) and 3)

   

On general sound insulation, again I have noticed comments that the MKIII is an improvement in this regard myself and wanted to see what people say in here.

I am pleased to see someone being realistic and honest about the lack of sound and vibration insulation compared to say Audi. I expected Superb "fans" to dismiss the idea but you know just from physically being in A6s for example, you can tell the difference is stark and one not just explainable by ( fickle ) db test readings. On my own MKII it seems to me the firewall thing ( is that what it is called ? ) is just pathetic ! What do they use, rice paper ? Come on Skoda, really, what would it take, at the time of manufacture to do some wrapping up like Audi do of the noises from the engine compartment ? Its is not all that expensive surely, done at the time of manufacture. Conversely, so difficult to do as after-thought. It would be a really smart thing for Skoda to do, to get the car quietened down cost effectively by doing as Audi do.

 

The wheels thing is plain daft. For heavens sake, let the customer decide. Interestingly, I've seen well specced 2 litre A6 available with 17 inch wheels and high aspect ratio tyres, unlike the forced larger ones taking low profile tyres forced on you as you go up the range in Skoda. It annoys me a lot and it is avoidable !

 

And what about electronic noise cancellation? The technology has come of age and is available. I wish they would. ( what they do in the Canton isn't really it, afaik ). Even if they didn't do it in the cabin, how about a simple cancellation woofer in the engine compartment to deal with bassy boomy sounds directly from the engine ? ( that was done donkeys years ago by some manufacturers )

 

 

4)

 

The standard insulation across spec levels is a fact for the MkIIs. I can't say I know about the MKIIIs. Perhaps someone can tell us definitively ?

My point about doing more physically in terms of barriers is highly relevant in the case of the upper models. Surely at SEL and L&K levels, Skoda could do more ( for example what is mentioned above ) on these cars compared to an eighteen grand S model.

Again the wheels comes into relevance as an oronic twist, that as you pay for more "luxury" you actually end up with worse, in terms of noise and ride. How silly - and avoidable.

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

 

Look folks, lets be clear, I do like a lot of what Skoda do and I am considering a MkIII as my next car. But Skoda do annoy me sometimes with things like forced wheel "upgrades" and inexplicable forced option pairings. Above all, with this whole issue of noise - which could be avoided and efficiently so if tackled at the time of manufacture.

[Meow]

Idea :  a "Quiet Package" to be made available as an option, standard on the high models or L&K. Something like that.

[Norian]

2) and 3)

   

On general sound insulation, again I have noticed comments that the MKIII is an improvement in this regard myself and wanted to see what people say in here.

I am pleased to see someone being realistic and honest about the lack of sound and vibration insulation compared to say Audi. I expected Superb "fans" to dismiss the idea but you know just from physically being in A6s for example, you can tell the difference is stark and one not just explainable by ( fickle ) db test readings. On my own MKII it seems to me the firewall thing ( is that what it is called ? ) is just pathetic ! What do they use, rice paper ? Come on Skoda, really, what would it take, at the time of manufacture to do some wrapping up like Audi do of the noises from the engine compartment ? Its is not all that expensive surely, done at the time of manufacture. Conversely, so difficult to do as after-thought. It would be a really smart thing for Skoda to do, to get the car quietened down cost effectively by doing as Audi do.

 

The wheels thing is plain daft. For heavens sake, let the customer decide. Interestingly, I've seen well specced 2 litre A6 available with 17 inch wheels and high aspect ratio tyres, unlike the forced larger ones taking low profile tyres forced on you as you go up the range in Skoda. It annoys me a lot and it is avoidable !

 

And what about electronic noise cancellation? The technology has come of age and is available. I wish they would. ( what they do in the Canton isn't really it, afaik ). Even if they didn't do it in the cabin, how about a simple cancellation woofer in the engine compartment to deal with bassy boomy sounds directly from the engine ? ( that was done donkeys years ago by some manufacturers )

 

 

In understand your point, but I don't think Skoda will be allowed by VAG to do that.

 

Look at the current Octavia3 and compare it to the Golf 7 and think of the Octavia 2 and compare it to Golf 6. Octavia 2 and Golf 6 were both at the same quality mark, with a touch of extra for the Octavia. With Octy 3 they intentionally created a gap to the Golf and it is not only about perception, it's the real deal: materials, plastics, inside of the doors, etc.

 

With the Superb, I'm impressed they were allowed to be just at the Passat point, but without all the gadgets: Active Info Display, 2.0 BITD engine, etc. 

With Audi, it's a "worlds appart gap"

It's not only about sound insulation. It is also about suspension setup: Audi's (from the A4 up) use multilink suspension vs. the classic McPherson suspension used by Superb and Passat. This alone creates a big difference in noise, road noise that is because the way the multilink suspnesion works is much more quieter over bumps.

The sound insulation material is not such a price difference: let's say 100Euro/car. It's about the principle of things: why let a 30 grand Skoda be as refined and quiet as a 60-70 grand Audi A6 ?

Space inside is the same, design wise - the Superb looks good, inside equipment is rich enough...So where's the difference to the 60-70 grand car ?

It's in sound insulation, technical solutions (such as multilink suspension) and goodies: Virtual Cockpit display, LED matrix headlights and dynamic signal lights, BOSE sound system, real wood for trims and especially the feel of the buttons and commands inside the car. Audis are known for excellent haptic inside the cockpit and this is a reality anyone can feel - it's not just marketing.

 

Again the Superb is 30 grand, the full equipt A6 is 70 grand

Edited 22 September, 2016 by Norian

[Meow]

Ah-ha , yes !  What Norian there is talking about is something I suspected to be true myself. That there is group politics at work. True I think.

 

They could still employ the simpler systems like the suspension set up for example, and you don;t need all the bells and whisltes and special woods etc, but I really do wish they could just do easy to install things like thick ( and yes, heavy ) lagging materials, at the time of manufacture. So difficult to do as an afterthought - engine bay and doors especially. In cost, that sort of thing is minimal,. I wish they would. It is sadly lacking on my MkII.

 

But also, just to avoid the avoidable, like not forcing you to take noisier wheels as you up the range.

[Superb170]

I've tested the new A4 and its no better than the Superb II actually for sound insulation IMO - overall I wasn't impressed with the A4 anyway.  There is no denying the A6 is a notch up in terms of overall refinement however and it should be given the price differential, otherwise why would there be any point in paying a premium?  Re the wheels, you can always spec those down to a lower diameter - at least you can here in Ireland.  I could have my MkII L&K with 17" if I wanted.

[Meow]

The Irish situation, not just with what you can spec down to as you say, but also with what is normally fitted, just goes to show that in other markets where we have this wheel problem, that it is a marketing led thing and nothing or little to do with technical need.

 

Given that the Superb is already the poorer for noise insulation ( not that I'm saying it is actually bad in absolute terms ) and that perhaps even certain quite cost effective methods are held back from - like the engine bay lagging possibly, then it is all the more reason for Skoda to not go and do avoidable things that make matters worse, like this dumb wheel inflexibility thing.

Edited 22 September, 2016 by Meow

[MartiniB]

there is production code - 2B1 = Additional exterior noise suppression
http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/395678-new-car-and-check-of-build-in-spec/?p=4589002
but mission impossible to get info from dealer does my particular car has it

 

my 2016.03 Superb III Style 2.0 TSI is louder than 2009 Hyundai Sonata 2.0 CRDi and this were louder than 1992 Audi 100 2.8i

[Columbo]

I test drove a diesel superb which didn't seem too noisy, although It wasn't the L&K so believe it only had 17" wheels.

 

Anyway, never been keen on the diesel hum. Watched reviews on You Tube and the one from  Autogefuhl on the L&K 220 petrol went into raptures about how quiet the petrol engine was.

15.35 in.

 

In the video you can hear him talking with virtually no noise from the car, other than when he did an acceleration test. But just general driving all you can hear is his voice with total silence from the car. That's nothing like mine. Maybe the German cars have more sound insulation.

[Superb170]

there is production code - 2B1 = Additional exterior noise suppression

http://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/395678-new-car-and-check-of-build-in-spec/?p=4589002

but mission impossible to get info from dealer does my particular car has it

 

my 2016.03 Superb III Style 2.0 TSI is louder than 2009 Hyundai Sonata 2.0 CRDi and this were louder than 1992 Audi 100 2.8i

That's interesting about that option.  I've never seen that before in this market anyway.  The overall noise suppression and refinement is something I'm very conscious of which is why I am still undecided whether to go ahead and order a new Superb in a few weeks time or perhaps go with a slightly used A6 for example.

[Meow]

Yes, interesting about that 2B1, whatever it actually refers to. Noting that it is exterior, it could perhaps be something to do with exhaust ?

 

As for the possibility of greater soundproofing on the German cars, I doubt it. When he was talking he wasn't going fast and most crucially, the rods are much better than here. Even with my MKII which I consider noisy, given a really nice road its pretty quiet. Just if you get a bad road i.e. a typical one in fact, then the lack of truly good sound insulation shows.

I could well believe the 2l petrol engine being really quiet, but the lack of road noise there in the video is probably more due to the quality of the roads than having supposedly extra insulation. I am prepapred to believe that the MKIII is better than the previous though.

[IanJD]

I think maybe people are being a bit too sensitive here -- my 2.0TSI L&K is certainly quieter overall than the E300 that it replaced, even for road noise in spite of 18" wheels compared to 17" -- the petrol engine is a lot quieter than the 190TDI I had on demo and there's very little wind noise.

 

The modern fad for huge diameter super-wide wheels with ultra-low profile tyres is annoying and purely style-driven, especially in the UK -- they're heavier, more expensive, noisier, harder-riding, more prone to damage, aquaplane more easily, tyres cost more, and do very little for handling except on a smooth racing track which is kind of irrelevant to most people except test drivers.

 

If you talk to chassis engineers they'll agree with all this and tell you that the smallest diameter wheels available usually have the best noise/ride/handling/comfort compromise, but that all this is over-ridden because most people (in the UK) seem to want their cars to look like the sketches of mad stylists with rubber-band tyres, and the car manufacturers sell what people want to buy...

[Columbo]

 

 

As for the possibility of greater soundproofing on the German cars, I doubt it. When he was talking he wasn't going fast and most crucially, the rods are much better than here. Even with my MKII which I consider noisy, given a really nice road its pretty quiet. Just if you get a bad road i.e. a typical one in fact, then the lack of truly good sound insulation shows.

I could well believe the 2l petrol engine being really quiet, but the lack of road noise there in the video is probably more due to the quality of the roads than having supposedly extra insulation. I am prepapred to believe that the MKIII is better than the previous though.

True, German roads are better. But there again all his test drives are on German roads so if he raves about how quiet the Superb is, this would indicate a quieter car than the competition. And although our roads can be poor they're the same roads my previous 14 year old car used, which was significantly quieter.

[Meow]

I wish I had that 2l petrol MkIII then !  ( and had it fitted with smaller wheels with higher profile tyres , which is perfectly feasible in the physical sense ).

 

In the meantime I have to do things about my existing MKII diesel. I might be getting my flywheel done soon which means the engine comes out, in which case, I could get proper engine bay sound proofing ( Noise Killer Group ) done at the same time that is not possible with the engine in. Between that and the fact of a new flywheel, new timing belt and DSG service, plus a swap to 16 inch wheels with 55 aspect ratio tyres ( checked as feasible ), my existing car might be quite improvable. I hope so.

[Columbo]

Just checked out a German skoda forum and they appear to have similar noise problems with the Superb. Using google translate found this guy making his own soundproofing solution.

 

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.co.uk&sl=de&u=http://www.skodacommunity.de/threads/geraeuschdaemmung-verfeinern-noetig.109045/&usg=ALkJrhgmP46IXowSCHuYS-YuIG_10c36zA

 

You need to use google translate if you navigate anywhere else on the forum.

[Superb170]

That's interesting especially the comment about the difference between sound insulation on the L&K versus the Style (SE L).  A lot of work on a new car though and I wouldn't fancy taking panels apart.  I'd be afraid that what I'd gain in better insulation I'd lose by not getting the panels fitting back together properly!

[Gromle]

That's interesting about that option. I've never seen that before in this market anyway. The overall noise suppression and refinement is something I'm very conscious of which is why I am still undecided whether to go ahead and order a new Superb in a few weeks time or perhaps go with a slightly used A6 for example.

That might be for the Scandinavian markeds. At least on the Octy we get extra insulation compared to other markeds. Dont know if it is because of the climate or rough asphalt. Studded wintertyres and chains really roughs it up and makes it noisy to drive on.

[hulahoop7]

I went from an A4 Avant to a mk2 and the presence of the engine was marked. You just felt much closer to it. I always find it interesting comparing the weights of say a Superb to an A4 or A6 (the new Kodiak is apparently much lighter than the all aluminium Jaguar F pace). You have to arrive at the conclusion that there is far less substance to Skodas. I think Audis probably get double bulkheads filled with insulation, while Skodas make do with one.

[Norian]

I think in all fairness the discussion on "quiet" Superbs should be on more than one areas. I would split them in the following categories:

 

- Road noise - caused by car rolling on the asphalt. Mainly caused by tyre compound and rim size. As mentioned by me above, swapping the OEM fitted Pirellis to Contis or even better Michelins is greatly improving noise caused by rolling. I found this out in my MK2 Superb. Also tyre pressure is very important, an over inflated tyre is generating more road noise. I do not know what tyre pressure is recommended for the MK3, but for the MK2, the 2.3 reccomended by Skoda is perfect. New cars are delivered with overinflated tyres and this should be checked immediately after delivery. In Romania, the MK2s got delivered with 2.6 (!) and that was creating a lot of rolling noise and a very bumpy ride. Going down to 2.3fronts and 2.2 rears immediately improves the behaviour. I would suspect it's the same thing with the MK3

 

- Engine noise - clearly the diesel is a lot more noisier than petrol and you also get the vibrations. That's coming from engine type and only so much noise insulation in the engine bay. It's what was discussed above, Audis get the engine bay wrapped in some "carpet like" material, while BMWs I've noticed get a lot of insulation on the firewall. With Audi there is little diesel noise outside the car and inside the car, while with 3-series for example, the noise of the diesel is present outside the car, but not inside. Very little options to do some aftermarket improvement on this, to be honest. This can be fixed by going for the petrol engine 

 

- Outside the car noise - wind noise for example. Door sills should prevent this and also the lining that should be present inside the doors. There's a good solution for this, by using a special foil of Dynamat - the kind of foil used for better insulating when up-grading the speakers in the car

Edited 23 September, 2016 by Norian

[Rainmaker]

Just get the TSI. There, all quiet.

 

 

 

 

You can really feel the difference in suspension when you ride a car with multilink. Given that it's standard on the Ford Mondeo I don't see why VAG force Skoda to go without, as the Superb is a Mondeo competitor, the A6 isn't.

[Columbo]

That's interesting especially the comment about the difference between sound insulation on the L&K versus the Style (SE L). 

 

Yes, I noticed that. It would explain why in this Autodefuhl (German) review (15.35 in) he raves about how quiet it is.

 

At 1.28 it shows the tyres. can't quite make out the make but doesn't look like Pirelli.

[Meow]

Just get the TSI. There, all quiet.

 

 

 

 

You can really feel the difference in suspension when you ride a car with multilink. Given that it's standard on the Ford Mondeo I don't see why VAG force Skoda to go without, as the Superb is a Mondeo competitor, the A6 isn't.

 Add to that the fact that the Ford diesel is more refined than caertainly the one in my MKII and it seems better lagged from the passenger compartment , add to that if you buy the Vignalle variant, you get proper noise cancellation and indeed I am thinking about buying one nearly new.

[Norian]

Yes, I noticed that. It would explain why in this Autodefuhl (German) review (15.35 in) he raves about how quiet it is.

 

At 1.28 it shows the tyres. can't quite make out the make but doesn't look like Pirelli.

 

It's winter tyres Dunlop SP Wintersport 4D, fitted on 235/45/18 

[Columbo]

It's winter tyres Dunlop SP Wintersport 4D, fitted on 235/45/18 

 

Thanks. Just checked a couple of reviews suggesting they are very quiet. Which again ties in with the reviewers comments.

 

I guess if Autodefuhl request a car to test, Skoda aren't going to give them one with noisy tyres.