1.4 TSi v 2.0 TDi

[jthyssen]

For me it's not only the figures 0-100..It's about the overall feeling. Loaded, non loaded, aircon off/on 2.0TDI pulls as a bear when needed. I just feel more secure in overtaking, personal feeling. Even the engine noise - I prefer hearing the machine, feeling it, even this costs me little bit of my comfort. At idle the engine btw is not recognizable as diesel, I had drive only petrols before.

As for the money, everybody decides by his own, I have no smart thing to say about it.

I personally felt 1.8TSI L&K was the best blend of performance, handling, driver feel for me. It's punchy, has independent rear suspension,etc. But my choise was 1.4/2.0 against waiting mo ths (I can't wait ). Again personal perception. I'm not the type 'mine is the best'.

If one is not sure should take into account the forum topic but I strongly recommend asking for longer test drives of both before final decision.

Good luck and once chosen search no more pros and cons, just drive

 

The power delivery is different in a diesel versus petrol, but the numbers are fairly similar. The difference might be that the TDI can overtake without changing gears, whereas you have to drop a gear or two in the TSI, but with the DSG you really don't notice.

 

I am used to driving the 1.4 TSI, so when I test drove a 2.0 TDI a while ago it seemed extremely slow and slugish for me. Probably because I am not used to driving diesels.

 

In my personal opinon the engine noise from a R4 diesel is just awful (agricultural), so I prefer a diesel to be as quiet as possible. I had a 3.0 TDI V6 in the past and while the noise was agricultural while idling it actually had a nice roar when accelerating. Obviously nothing beats a V8 or B6 petrol for sound

 

The car economics are somewhat different in Denmark. As a company car the 1.4 TSI DSG is approximately 20£ cheaper per month than the 2.0 TDI DSG 150 (depending on the specific company car scheme), so for me was a no-brainer.

[Gerrycan]

Based on the figures the OP has put forward then if he makes the 'wrong' choice between the 1.4tsi and 2.0D then it is not really going to be apparent as they are both good, albeit in slightly different ways.

 

It is like the problem you get at a good restaurant with an excellent menu. What to choose?

 

As stated by others, you really do have to try them out for yourselves.

[jjc]

I have a similar patern of mileage to you but mine is a 10 mile each way comute, even in this cold weather I get heat coming out of the heater after 2 miles at most. The main bit I like the diesel is on country roads you need that "kick" of acceleration to get past the "tractors, 30 mph slugs etc" but it will be your choice, there are plus points and minus ones.

 

John

[Octy0GG]

Thanks all

 

A lot of good things being said about the 1.4 TSI for my sort of use.

 

Just remembering though that in all my concern over DPF problems, I had conveniently forgotten about the issue of carbon build up in direct injection petrol engines.

 

There are plenty reports on this forum, and elsewhere, of problems with carbon build up in earlier VAG direct injection petrol engines, things don't appear to be to be quite so bad for the latest generation of petrol engines but given that by my understanding* that the 1.4 TSI is still direct injection only (no additional injector in the inlet manifold) I would still be concerned about this.

 

So:

 

Carbon build up in Octavia 3 1.4 TSI

 

Does anyone have experience to confirm or refute this being a problem?

 

*Please correct if I have this wrong.

[Sec8200]

Hmm - my two cents again - engines are complicated enough to say white or black. There was someone that sums it up very badly  in one sentence.

 

However I would put it as following : 

 

1. Face it - both might have issues, though different type of.

        What petrol does not have turbo? Or maybe fuel injectors that might fail?

        1.4 -> makes 150hp as well as 2.0 I believe the resource of bigger one is more confident for me.

        Yes I admit DPF drove me crazy in the beginning, now I help him do it's task and being careful how I drive. Yes I admit EGR might be an issue, and diesel is sensitive to fuel quality more than petrol.

        The carbon build up is serious issue for the first FSI engines. TSI is less prone to it. 

 

2. Diesel is suitable for some tasks better that petrol and vice versa

 

3. If you ask the forum you get different optinons and might get misleaded. If you are not 100% sure - make as much as test drives needed and gather more information to take decision.

 

I've narrowed the options to two, mainly cut based on delivery time and country taxation. Ended w/ 1.4 TSI vs 2.0 TDI - months of research but at the end choise came logically -> I've decided I want more volume for my next car. I know people will scream that turbo take care etc,etc but everyone has different style of driving. I found diesel suited me better as feeling, secured overtaking, loads of torque to forget above how loaded it is, if it's going uphills. At the end it souded better under push

 

I've ordered L&K 2.0 TDI and there was problems getting it and lowered to less expensive trim level same engine.

 

BUT reaching to this point I've make a list PROS/CONS of all engines. Then I've dug all the forums, asking even stupid questions.

 

BTW one thing put me off 1.4 was it's legacy of unrelyable engine of previous generation (140hp). I know this is re-engineered but at was another minus for this engine. Also old one was reported to have timing chain issues which leads to skips and expensive piston, valves etc repairs 

 

p.s. I'm by no means defending my choise as only one. As said I would rather drive 1.8 TSI or 2.0 TSI (BTW both engineered by Audi, which can't be said for 1.0,1.2,1.4) but I found that diesel make me feel good as well.

 

p.p.s. good luck at the end of the day - choose something and be happy, life is short 

Edited 11 November, 2016 by TTodorov

[Dempsek]

Equally you have to understand the biggest problem the old 1.4TSI had was the variant put into the Fabia VRS. Then again my 1.2TDI did nothing but breakdown including injector and DPF issues, any car you buy can be a problem.

 

I moved from my TDI to a TSI because, I realized my driving type and the length of time I was planning to keep the car was not best suited to a TDI.

 

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/technology/dpf-short-journeys

 

http://www.volkswagen.co.uk/need-help/technology/replaceDPF 

 

MPG wise there is virtually no difference between my TSI and my old 1.6TDI, because the TSI nearly always runs at optimum engine temp (not water/heater) where as the TDI was not.

 

Equally with my driving I would not effectively get back the additional cost of a diesel.

 

You need to have a good test drive of both engines and preferably back to back and buy the one you like the best.

[FlyingGecko]

 

I wanted 1.8 TSI but could not wait months to be delivered. 2.0TDI was ready, here I get much lower tax compared to 1.8/2.0 TSI

 

 

 

Just so we know where you're talking about - where is "here"?

[Octy0GG]

I recon my old 1.9 PD, although not up to full temperature, is up to near enough maximum operating efficiency (MPG does not get much better after this) after about 4 miles at 50 mph ish. 

 

I getting the impression that modern 1.6 and 2.0 CR engines will take about the same. - please correct if wrong

 

What sort of distance would the 1.4 tsi take to get at least close to it's full efficiency?

[Gerrycan]

My memory of my 1.9pd was that was pretty efficient almost directly after a cold start according to instant fuel display. But there was barely any hot air coming from heater outlets after 6 km.

The 1.4tsi is much more heavy on fuel immediately after the cold start but after just 2 km the instant fuel display is showing near normal consumption figures. The heater would be blowing some warm air after 1 km even though the temperature needle had barely moved.

Of course one has to define a cold start and I'm talking about 15 Deg C

Edited 2 December, 2016 by Gerrycan

[Octy0GG]

Of course one has to define a cold start and I'm talking about 15 Deg 

Even during Winter usually a few degrees above freezing. 

Very seldom below  -5 Deg C

15 Deg C is Summer

[ednmra]

The heater would be blowing some warm air after 1 km even though the temperature needle had barely moved.

 

I agree - I am amazed at how quickly warm air comes through the vents etc.

I use the individual buttons, having "on" the one with the arrow pointing to the face, and the one with arrow pointing to my feet. I find that warms more effectively than the general auto setting.

[MoggyTech]

Had I answered this three weeks ago I would have said either car would be fine, although your mileage was more suited to the 1.4TSI. However being in a similar situation, I just switched from a 2.0CR VRS to a 1.4TSI SE DSG. I would never go back to diesel again. Also being a bit of a techno geek, I have been researching the latest version of the 1.4 TSI engine. 

 

1: The engine is modular and camshafts/crankshafts cannot be replaced, so head and block are replaced rather than reworked. This is the way engineering works these days, with such fine tolerances.

 

2: The 1.4TSI has no EGR system. So you can forget about inlet valve and manifold gunk unless you keep the car for 100,000 miles. It still uses PCV, but the oil separator looks well designed and I don't think it will be a problem.

 

3: Later versions of the TSI engine range will feature direct injection and MPI so valve gunk will be reduced to near zero. 

 

My 1.4 TSI is nicer to drive than the VRS was, much less road noise, and the 1.4TSI engine is very quiet and also very refined. It's free revving, returns similar MPG and my bum dyno thinks the 1.4TSI is just as quick as the VRS

 

With several major cities planning to ban diesels, and given that regular unleaded is cheaper per litre than diesel, for me at least, it's a no brainer. 

[GBHam]

1.2 TSI with DSG sounds like the car you need,, good performance to MPG ratio.

Loving mine had it for 3 months and great cruising and MPG

I have a 1.2TSI as well, no DSG, I have a 200 mile commute Monday mornings and back Thursday nights (German Autobahn 90 - 100 MPH cruise) , short drives during the week get by fine.

Next time I will go for the 1.4TSI with DSG because of the longer journeys.

[Gerrycan]

 

My 1.4 TSI is nicer to drive than the VRS was, much less road noise, and the 1.4TSI engine is very quiet and also very refined. It's free revving, returns similar MPG and my bum dyno thinks the 1.4TSI is just as quick as the VRS

 

 

I thought you would like the car but really did not expect that paragraph!

 

Out of curiosity what tyres are fitted to yours? Seems to be a really important part of the whole ride/noise experience.

I've got 17 inch Dunlop SportMaxx fitted to mine, fairly heavily maligned by many but I have found mine pretty good.

On one fairly long and very late night journey I punctured and was forced to fit the 16 Inch spare spacesaver (some Korean brand or other but otherwise the 16 in full size rating) and even at mostly restricted speeds it was incredibly noisy. Certainly an incentive to get the original fixed and fitted as soon as possible.

[MoggyTech]

I thought you would like the car but really did not expect that paragraph!

 

Out of curiosity what tyres are fitted to yours? Seems to be a really important part of the whole ride/noise experience.

I've got 17 inch Dunlop SportMaxx fitted to mine, fairly heavily maligned by many but I have found mine pretty good.

On one fairly long and very late night journey I punctured and was forced to fit the 16 Inch spare spacesaver (some Korean brand or other but otherwise the 16 in full size rating) and even at mostly restricted speeds it was incredibly noisy. Certainly an incentive to get the original fixed and fitted as soon as possible.

205/55/R16 Continental Contact Premium. I just picked up full size steel spare and toolkit. Car came with the gloop repair kit, and I refuse to use those space saver wheels.

[Octy0GG]

1: The engine is modular and camshafts/crankshafts cannot be replaced, so head and block are replaced rather than reworked. This is the way engineering works these days, with such fine tolerances.

 

2: The 1.4TSI has no EGR system. So you can forget about inlet valve and manifold gunk unless you keep the car for 100,000 miles. It still uses PCV, but the oil separator looks well designed and I don't think it will be a problem.

 

3: Later versions of the TSI engine range will feature direct injection and MPI so valve gunk will be reduced to near zero. 

 

 

2 & 3 above  - very good news

1 above - not quite such good news

[MoggyTech]

2 & 3 above  - very good news

1 above - not quite such good news

It's just the way the car industry is heading mate. This sort of modular design started in the electronics industry over 20 years ago. Manufacturing reaches a stage were it's actually cheaper to just replace a module, rather than develop the required tools, train mechanics to rebuild engines, and stock thousands of individual parts. A rebuilt engine can also be very hit or miss, depending on the mechanic that rebuilds the engine. 

 

Big end bearings can still be changed, it's just the main ends that are a no go area. Cylinder head and camshaft module are two separate units, so all good there as well. I really like the design of this engine. Valves are pushed by good old fashioned rockers, so no direct cam to bucket valve contact. So as the valve rocker  acts as a 'lever' you require less cam lobe force to open a valve. The biggie for me though, is no EGR system. That thing was the work of Satan himself.

[bigjohn]

It's just the way the car industry is heading mate. This sort of modular design started in the electronics industry over 20 years ago. Manufacturing reaches a stage were it's actually cheaper to just replace a module, rather than develop the required tools, train mechanics to rebuild engines, and stock thousands of individual parts. A rebuilt engine can also be very hit or miss, depending on the mechanic that rebuilds the engine. 

 

Big end bearings can still be changed, it's just the main ends that are a no go area. Cylinder head and camshaft module are two separate units, so all good there as well. I really like the design of this engine. Valves are pushed by good old fashioned rockers, so no direct cam to bucket valve contact. So as the valve rocker  acts as a 'lever' you require less cam lobe force to open a valve. The biggie for me though, is no EGR system. That thing was the work of Satan himself.

 

The 1.4 tsi still has EGR but uses the variable valve timing to achieve this

 

I think the bigger engines have an EGR valve but the latest version benefits from direct and port fuel injection

Edited 4 December, 2016 by bigjohn

[Octy0GG]

Hands up - idiot me.

 

Vast majority of advice (including that I administered to myself) - go petrol.

 

Had been planning to go petrol, then at last  minute took fright about economy and lack of torque - got a 2.0 TDI (Euro 6)

 

Active regens at least every 100 miles - despite never interrupting regens.

 

Took a bit of a financial hit to get into a 1.4 TSI SE Sport, think this had to be done as all the regens were not going to be good for engine.

 

Not all positives though, fuel economy well down on 2.0 TDI, even further down on old 1.9 PD.

Also despite similar on paper performance feels pretty gutless compared to diesel, may be that I just need to re adjust to using more revs but hate to think what fuel economy will be like after that.

[FlyingGecko]

I drove my 1.4 TSi DSG  like I stole it and never managed less than 34mpg on one tankful, but usually well over 40. Managed a few tankfuls of fast long drives (1200 miles over a weekend, did that a few times) with a very full load and got over 50mpg. Over 15k miles it gave 42mpg overall. Factor in lower servicing costs and that was good enough for me. (Never mind not having to handle or smell diesel fuel, which I accept is entirely subjective!)

[Octy0GG]

Never mind not having to handle or smell diesel fuel, which I accept is entirely subjective!

Yes before I had a diesel I always wondered why folk were faffing about with the disposable gloves at the pumps.

 

After my first diesel refill without gloves I got the point.

 

A few diesel fills later, very windy night, a wee drop of diesel blows onto new £200 brogues (should point out I'm not in the habit of spending this sort of money on shoes or clothes) - they stunk of diesel for months. 

 

Learned to be very very careful when filling up with diesel.

[themanwithnoaim]

I drove my 1.4 TSi DSG like I stole it and never managed less than 34mpg on one tankful, but usually well over 40.

Really ? Is yours stock by any chance ?

[gregoir]

My mpg on LONG runs is excellent as I said. But I get the impression that mpg on short runs is poor, compared to my old diesel, especially in the cold weather. But things change rapidly for the better the warmer the engine gets.

[BoxerBoy]

Had I answered this three weeks ago I would have said either car would be fine, although your mileage was more suited to the 1.4TSI. However being in a similar situation, I just switched from a 2.0CR VRS to a 1.4TSI SE DSG. I would never go back to diesel again. Also being a bit of a techno geek, I have been researching the latest version of the 1.4 TSI engine. 

 

1: The engine is modular and camshafts/crankshafts cannot be replaced, so head and block are replaced rather than reworked. This is the way engineering works these days, with such fine tolerances.

 

2: The 1.4TSI has no EGR system. So you can forget about inlet valve and manifold gunk unless you keep the car for 100,000 miles. It still uses PCV, but the oil separator looks well designed and I don't think it will be a problem.

 

3: Later versions of the TSI engine range will feature direct injection and MPI so valve gunk will be reduced to near zero. 

 

My 1.4 TSI is nicer to drive than the VRS was, much less road noise, and the 1.4TSI engine is very quiet and also very refined. It's free revving, returns similar MPG and my bum dyno thinks the 1.4TSI is just as quick as the VRS

 

With several major cities planning to ban diesels, and given that regular unleaded is cheaper per litre than diesel, for me at least, it's a no brainer.

I concur! (Crimson Tide)

Our 1.4 is whisper quiet. We still mention it regularly.

[FlyingGecko]

Really ? Is yours stock by any chance ?

 

Yes it was. Clearly you've more experience of twocking than I! :thumbup:

 

(I'd come from a 2.3 turbo Saab with 220 bhp, and was constantly trying to achieve the same levels of performance. TBH most travelling in the 1.4 was done at speeds that wouldn't arouse great suspicion if observed by the authorities, but acceleration was usually aimed at hitting escape velocity. I've wondered for ages how you manage your Fuelly figure.)