Anti diesel will this effect your next engine choice

[Ryeman]

'the test' is what is driving vehicle design ie ; to obtain the lowest CO2 figure whilst meeting the other pollutant standards.

Design/appearance is compromised by drag factor but only if aero drag is a factor in the test consumption figure, I guess.

[weasley]

Whilst the testing is done under static conditions, a 'fudge factor' is applied to the cars afterwards to account for drag and weight.  For example, they don't test every variant of every model, they test one then do different calculations to account for different specifications.

[bluecar1]

well, I pick up a hybrid car Friday (Hyundai Ioniq)

 

lets see if they live up to the promise in economy and emissions, and no nasty noisy Diesel under the bonnet

 

personally I think people will migrate from diesels to hybrids, to plugins then full EV's over the next 10 years as the battery and charging tech matures

 

then the question will be what will the oil companies do with all that stuff in the ground and the government do for tax it will be losing off fuel?

 

I suspect home charging points will have to be connected to a separate meter so the electric for your car can have tax applied at source like petrol has now

[JCP]

I have been driving since 1970 and have owned many vehicles. Only one diesel (my first Yeti 140 4x4)  It was a good thing and unmatched on a long run down from UK to Portugal flexible and swift and altogether good. Unfortunately it didn't like my current and continuing low 8k/P/a and kept throwing an exhaust light necessitating an otherwise unnecessary motorway blat to clear it. Back to petrol=a 1.8 tfsi with shark stage one remap. Yes it uses more fuel but it does everything better. I have always suspected that diesel is best suited to commercial vehicle and heavy machinery use. Attempts to make it work for light passenger use have been partly successful many modern diesels don't stink or sound as if they are about to die of big end failure. I do sometimes wince when I hear a beautiful car sound ike like a transit but understand why those who tow or do vast mileage feel they suit them. then I read about the increasingly complex tech work arounds and feel that it is easier to make silk purses without staring from pig's ears  

[Ryeman]

well, I pick up a hybrid car Friday (Hyundai Ioniq)

 

lets see if they live up to the promise in economy and emissions, and no nasty noisy Diesel under the bonnet

 

personally I think people will migrate from diesels to hybrids, to plugins then full EV's over the next 10 years as the battery and charging tech matures

 

then the question will be what will the oil companies do with all that stuff in the ground and the government do for tax it will be losing off fuel?

 

I suspect home charging points will have to be connected to a separate meter so the electric for your car can have tax applied at source like petrol has now

I've heard of proposals for tolling (all?) roads, so that the further you drive the more you pay obviously.

Or perhaps indicated mileage at reg renewal perhaps.......cheating being treated like your pink(?) diesel for instance.

Invasive tech is everywhere these days.

[ejstubbs]

I actually find tis discussion quite interesting s the majority of people are purely talking economics...

 

I think that's at least partly because they're trying to address some of the points raised by the OP, which did include government financial incentives [real or perceived] to encourage the take-up of diesel.

 

Are there so few people who actually like the torque rich 'drive' of a diesel on a daily basis and tat push in the back when you boot it tat you don't get with petrol???

 

The first diesel car I drove was a Citroen Visa diesel - not mine I hasten to add - all 1,769 pulsating ccs of it, back in the early 1980s.  I drove it from Herefordshire to Hertfordshire and I can categorically state that it definitely did not have a "push in the back".  The first car I actually bought with my own money was a Mk 1 Renault Five GT Turbo with its 1.4l engine.  Now that had a push in the back: it's the turbo that causes it.  I could feel the turbo kicking in when I test drove a 1.2TSI DSG Yeti.  Of course my 140 4x4 Yeti does it too.  Not as much as the Renault did, though...

[Ryeman]

I actually find tis discussion quite interesting s the majority of people are purely talking economics... Are there so few people who actually like the torque rich 'drive' of a diesel on a daily basis and tat push in the back when you boot it tat you don't get with petrol???

You'll get it in the latest small turbo petrols except with more ps too and real world ownership economy I suspect.

[VAGCF]

This exactly my stance on it.

Yes we could have just about got away with a petrol and would have had more choice when looking for the Saab. Our annual mileage at the moment is borderline for a diesel... But...!

We just love diesels.

Like you say the shove you get and the ease they pull themselves along is what we love. It's a nice relaxed driving experience without feeling like you're having to keep your foot down all the time to keep up or get up hills.

Plus depending on make/model etc especially when looking at automatic vehicles (another personal choice for us) the gap between petrol and diesel in terms of economy is huge! And if nothing else I can't be bothered going to the petrol station every 300 miles!

Plus we have had the idea of a small-ish caravan or trailer tent in our minds for a while and a diesel just seems to make more sense here.

This is my view also, which is why I wanted a diesel in the Yeti even though I do a low annual mileage and don't tow a caravan. Also for a car like the Yeti I just think that a diesel goes with it and I like the rumble (purring!) when cruising along. 

 

But most diesels (unless large capacity) don't have the low down shove that they used to have.

 

For flexibilty my wife's Mini Cooper S takes some beating. It's a petrol 1.6 turbo and takes my wife's too high a gear/low revs in its stride, a good shove in the back as the revs rise and a manic top end. It really is one of the best cars I've driven enginewise.

 

I wonder what the manufacturers answer will be for caravanners if, as it likely, there is a move away from diesel cars? Bigger petrol engines or more probably hybrid I guess. Even as a non-caravanner I'd like a 2.0 litre petrol in my next vehicle, Yeti or whatever.

[bluecar1]

 

I wonder what the manufacturers answer will be for caravanners if, as it likely, there is a move away from diesel cars? Bigger petrol engines or more probably hybrid I guess. Even as a non-caravanner I'd like a 2.0 litre petrol in my next vehicle, Yeti or whatever.

 not seen a hybrid so far rated for towing for some reason

 

Hyundai ioniq, kia niro, Toyota prius none can tow

 

not sure if a technical reason like something to do with the added weight causing issues for the regenerative braking or just because they are eco you shouldn't try dragging rubbish behind, regardless of many people only occasionally towing a caravan or trailer and only when they need to.

 

unlike many who leave their fuel drinking roof boxes on all the time because they are to lazy to remove them like my neighbour

[Falmouthboy]

Quite.

TBH, as long as all manufacturers use the same test, and we all know that it is under "lab" conditions, then we have a basis for comparison, even if it is not "real"

I agree with you - to a point. As you say, so many variables across the U.K., let alone Europe and the rest of the world. However, as 'Which' tests will show, even as a comparison, this is very unreliable. Some get close, others are way off.

Here is my idea. All modern cars have a ecu which measures fuel consumption. When the car is dealer serviced it is plugged into the dealers computer, which is linked to the manufacturer. It would be simple to report real time average consumption across the range. The accuracy of the ecu measurement can easily be verified by manual owner consumption calculations to keep the manufacturers 'honest'. Only a single figure but could be country specific.

[ejstubbs]

as 'Which' tests will show, even as a comparison, this is very unreliable. Some get close, others are way off.

 

But the point that Graham was making (I think) is that "real world" tests such as the Which? tests purport to be are arguably just as bad.  The fact that they give different results compared to the lab tests doesn't make them 'right', especially when the difference is not consistent.

 

Here is my idea. All modern cars have a ecu which measures fuel consumption. When the car is dealer serviced it is plugged into the dealers computer, which is linked to the manufacturer. It would be simple to report real time average consumption across the range. The accuracy of the ecu measurement can easily be verified by manual owner consumption calculations to keep the manufacturers 'honest'. Only a single figure but could be country specific.

 

First thought: the MPG that my car reports - at least that which it shows me on the MFD - is consistently around 10% optimistic cf my brim-to-brim calculations.  A regime such as you propose would require ecus to be calibrated (and pretty much locked down, although AIUI regulations to that effect are being proposed).  Whilst in theory calibration of ecus could be enforced, there could still be complications.  For example, my brim-to-brim mpg improves when I put my winter tyres on because they have a smaller circumference than my SP01s.  For the ecu to be able to cope with that it would have to have a measure of distance covered which was independent of the transmission.  Yes, it could use the GPS in the sat nav - assuming that the car has one.  Alternatively, it might be able to use location triangulation data from the GSM thingy which AIUI the EU is going to insist that every new car is going to have to have (although whether that would apply once the UK leaves the EU is currently another unknown - and I'm also not at all sure whether GSM location data is sufficiently accurate to be used for reliable fuel consumption calculations, especially given that GSM coverage is never 100%).  Not that these difficulties can't necessary be overcome, or at least catered for non-technologically within the regime that is put in place (eg by rejecting outlying data points), but it's probably not quite as simple as your outline might suggest.

 

Second thought: different cars have different typical use cases eg a model typically bought as a mile-munching rep's car will tend to report mpgs heavily influenced by high-speed motorway mileage, whereas Nissan Micras and the like will tend to report figures more skewed towards the blue-rinse urban cycle.  That could be perceived as being unfair, if the VED for your preferred vehicle is based on mile-munching motorway mpg whereas you intend to use it mostly for gentle bimbles in the countryside, or unreasonably generous if you regularly thrash your poor unfortunate but cheap-to-tax Micra up and down the M6.

[mumpsim]

But the point that Graham was making (I think) is that "real world" tests such as the Which? tests purport to be are arguably just as bad.  The fact that they give different results compared to the lab tests doesn't make them 'right', especially when the difference is not consistent.

 

 

The tests Which? does are lab tests.  You will need to be a lot more rigorous if you want to define 'real world' tests and 'lab tests' and the difference between them.

Edited 16 November, 2016 by mumpsim

[KenONeill]

I think you'll find that Honda's VTEC system is designed to come into effect between 3-3500 revs... Hardly "top quarter" !!

s/3/5

[Sad555]

I had the 1.6 civic vtec one of the best engines I've ever had and the vtec cut in at 5500rpm and on up to 7500rpm a real surge of power like having an overdrive in every gear but with more surge ,if you kept the peddle down it revved faster 5500- 7500 than it did1000-5500

[JCP]

I had the 1.6 civic vtec one of the best engines I've ever had and the vtec cut in at 5500rpm and on up to 7500rpm a real surge of power like having an overdrive in every gear but with more surge ,if you kept the peddle down it revved faster 5500- 7500 than it did1000-5500

Sad, what do you think an overdrive is? 

[Sad555]

^^^^^^^^ "Sad, what do you think an overdrive is? ". Overdrive. a GEAR in a motor vehicle providing a gear ratio higher than that of direct drive (the usual top GEAR), so that the engine speed can be reduced at high road speeds to lessen fuel consumption or to allow further acceleration................................not like Veriable Timing Electonic Control in a twin or single overhead cam engine,which increases road speed,rpm and fuel consumption .that's what I thought,what about you JCP ........?

Edited 19 November, 2016 by Sad555

[JCP]

we agree and thank you.

[VAGCF]

This is my view also, which is why I wanted a diesel in the Yeti even though I do a low annual mileage and don't tow a caravan. Also for a car like the Yeti I just think that a diesel goes with it and I like the rumble (purring!) when cruising along.

But most diesels (unless large capacity) don't have the low down shove that they used to have.

For flexibilty my wife's Mini Cooper S takes some beating. It's a petrol 1.6 turbo and takes my wife's too high a gear/low revs in its stride, a good shove in the back as the revs rise and a manic top end. It really is one of the best cars I've driven enginewise.

I wonder what the manufacturers answer will be for caravanners if, as it likely, there is a move away from diesel cars? Bigger petrol engines or more probably hybrid I guess. Even as a non-caravanner I'd like a 2.0 litre petrol in my next vehicle, Yeti or whatever.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/skoda/kodiaq/96276/new-skoda-kodiaq-suv-2016-review?_mout=1&utm_campaign=autoexpressvideo_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&tpid=7199820301

This report may provide the answer, the 2.0 TSI would do me fine! Didn't know they were doing it in the Kodiaq. And should be plenty powerful for towing a caravan?

I wonder if they will have that engine in the Yeti replacement? Probably not, and if that is the case I will be seriously considering the Kodiaq. I prefer the shorter Yeti for parking, coming from big estates, but the bigger boot would be welcome.

Pity that the SE L looks to be coming with the extra two seats i.e. 7 that I don't want, I'd rather spend the £1k. on other options.

Edited 18 November, 2016 by VAGCF

[Ryeman]

VAGCF

Is the CX5 Mazda not a proposition in the U.K.?.

[Expatman]

Yes, and new model due imminently. Photos etc. in AutoExpress.

[Ryeman]

.......and a post in the test section

[Falmouthboy]

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/skoda/kodiaq/96276/new-skoda-kodiaq-suv-2016-review?_mout=1&utm_campaign=autoexpressvideo_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&tpid=7199820301

This report may provide the answer, the 2.0 TSI would do me fine! Didn't know they were doing it in the Kodiaq. And should be plenty powerful for towing a caravan?

I wonder if they will have that engine in the Yeti replacement? Probably not, and if that is the case I will be seriously considering the Kodiaq. I prefer the shorter Yeti for parking, coming from big estates, but the bigger boot would be welcome.

Pity that the SE L looks to be coming with the extra two seats i.e. 7 that I don't want, I'd rather spend the £1k. on other options.

I too like the sound of the Kodiaq but was speaking to my dealer who has seen one - reckons it's a similar size to an Audi Q7 so a massive beast - no surprise it needs a 2.0 TSI. Rumour has it the new Yeti will be slightly bigger - closer to MX5 size and a new Fabia based SUV will appear that isn't much smaller than the current Yeti.

[Ryeman]

I too like the sound of the Kodiaq but was speaking to my dealer who has seen one - reckons it's a similar size to an Audi Q7 so a massive beast - no surprise it needs a 2.0 TSI. Rumour has it the new Yeti will be slightly bigger - closer to MX5 size and a new Fabia based SUV will appear that isn't much smaller than the current Yeti.

An interesting size comparison: MX5 v Yeti.......not a bad combination though.

[Stubod]

..funnily enough we currently thinking about changing both our cars next year and getting a Yeti for "towing" and stuff, and an MX5 for "sunny days / holidays".....

 

Just a shame that they don't do a bigger petrol engine Yeti for those of us who want petrol and also to tow...

[Ryeman]

We had a 1.8 MX5 some years ago, they are well balanced but lose grip fairly early due to not being heavy enough.