All year tyres and mud

[MuddyLanes]

Do all year tyres (e.g. Michelin Cross Climate) offer any advantage in muddy conditions? We have a 2012 Yeti 170 4x4 and are planning to move to muddy Devon, and if we get the house we want we'll be chugging up a very muddy track to get to it. Current tyres (Dunlop SP Sports) are due for replacement in the next few months so I'm pondering what to replace them with ...

[Volvomeg]

I had pirelli scorpion zero's M+S's on my volvo xc90 when i got it and it and they did quiet well down my friends muddy yard,

 

The front tyres wore out before the rears so swopped them for a set of part worn pirelli p-zero rosso's as i intended to get wheels refurbed so didn't want to be messing about getting tyres on and off,

 

When i went down yard again it was hopeless all it would do is slid about and wouldn't grip, so much so i only had them on car a month,

 

Now have nice refurbed wheels shod with 4 conti winter tyres and have my muddy grip back

[Jeeves]

M+S tyres have an open tread pattern to shed mud and snow although in itself the M+S description gives no clue to the rubber compound.  Most all-season tyres will have the M+S description on them and whilst it's a minimum winter standard in some European countries, the 3PMS (three peak mountain snowflake) is a safer standard for winter use.

 

Although I've got a set of CrossClimates for one car (not yet fitted), I can't remember whether they've got the M+S description but the pattern is less than ideal for muddy situations.  Depending on your view of mud vs all-season suitability, you might want to consider a tyre like the ContiCrossContact  LX2 for light offroad use or even CrossContact AT and Michelin Latitude Cross for tougher going.

 

The latter are useful in winter conditions but like the similar Goodyear Wrangler AT/R tyres I used they only come in certain sizes and work best in certain conditions.  If the 18" Octavia wheels I have fit my new car I'll be fitting them to it as I've been very happy with the Wranglers year round.  Only you know where on the spectrum you need to be and a reputable open-patterned all-season may be entirely suitable, but I'd suggest the CrossClimate is less suited to muddy conditions than others.

 

 

[Jon TDI]

1 hour ago, Jeeves said:

I can't remember whether they've got the M+S description but the pattern is less than ideal for muddy situations.

 

 

 

 

The Cross climates are Snow Flake Three Peak & M&S marked.

 

[Ootohere]

If Mud and tracks are important then best buy All Terrains suitable for a Yeti as there are ones available and they do not have to have white lettering on the outside tyre wall. You can get ones that do well in winter / snow even if not Snow tyres and they will do a better job on Mud & Grass than CrossClimates.

Maybe even BF Goodrich (Michelin) All-Terrains would suit.

http://bfgoodrich.co.uk

http://camskill.co.uk

Edited 6 February, 2017 by Offski

[MuddyLanes]

Thanks for all the good info chaps - looks like I'm going to have a hard decision to make! It's decent roads all the way, apart from the last 1/4 mile which is over a track which runs across a field. The track is well "surfaced" (with big, poured, concrete slabs) in places, but just compacted mud and hardcore in other places. It's uphill and downdale too. Hard to know what it'll be like in a really wet winter and whether mud or snow will be our enemy. All Terrains clearly worth investigating further - how good is the wet weather braking on tarmac roads compared to a standard tyre?

 

Is this the sort of change that insurance companies typically like to know about?

[Ootohere]

Just get the correct size and speed / load rating and there is nothing for the Insurance Underwriter to be told.

 

As to wet / dry / cold / mud performance there is always a compromise so choose wisely.

Those Yokohama All Terrain Tyres in the picture are what is fitted as standard to the Road going Arial Nomad so they do OK on road,

but best check what All Terrains come in the size you need for the wheels you have.

http://4x4tyres.co.uk

[MuddyLanes]

>> Those Yokohama All Terrain Tyres in the picture are what is fitted as standard to the Road going Arial Nomad so they do OK on road,

 

Ok, now I want an Arial Nomad! Not sure SWMBO would approve though ...

[MuddyLanes]

Just looking at that 4x4tyres link ... I have the choice of "All Season", "All Year" and "Winter". Winter I guess I understand, but how do All Season and All Year differ??? And how do these tie in to All Terrain?

[PirateSyrett]

Hi there! 

 

We've got a 2015 170bhp Yeti 4x4 on Cross Climates and they're great in Cornwall AND Devon.... Cope very well with cold, wet and mud, plus they're really quiet too. They're certainly better right now than the summer Pirellis that came as standard and we'd recommend them. My wife commutes 30 miles a day down muddy Cornish lanes into Devon and up onto Dartmoor. She used to do this in a Freelander on Yokohama All Terrains (Geolander ATS similar to the ones above) which were truly awesome in mud and snow but don't fit the Yeti, plus they're noisier and much less fuel efficient.

 

If you're in doubt you'd probably be better asking Llanigraham for his advice given his Yeti and off road experience, but for our needs in the rural, wet and muddy south west the Michelins and our Yeti are a great combination IMHO.

[MuddyLanes]

Sounds hopeful, thanks for the feedback, especially as your wife is doing pretty much what we'd be doing.

 

It's also heartening, from the picture posted by Jon TDI (thanks!), that the Cross Climates have an M+S label - I've always found their food very good too   Seriously, however, does the M+S sticker truly suggest some degree of improved muddy performance over a standard tyre? Or is it mainly cold weather performance that they're aiming at in this case?

[MuddyLanes]

Just remembered that Jeeves (above) suggests that the Cross Climates are less suited to muddy conditions than others. Sigh. A tricky decision here, especially as I don't want to sacrifice too much wet weather tarmac braking performance ...

[Volvomeg]

I would seriously consider pirelli scorpion zero's (not the asimmetrico ones)

 

On normal road cars i hate pirelli's with a passion but these on my xc90 were great

 

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Pirelli/Scorpion-Zero.htm

[MuddyLanes]

Sadly not available in my wheel size etc. As Jeeves said to me, a 225/50 17 "off road" is a very niche market ... I'm going to end with summer tyres aren't I Well, at least they work well most of the time. Maybe I'll have to buy a beat-up D******r to tow the Yeti out should it ever become stuck. And there again I might be pleasantly surprised at what its 4x4 ability can do!

[PirateSyrett]

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by your 170 4x4 on Cross Climates and.......if it really doesn't work..........then I think you'll find a couple of lorry loads of road planings (cheap as chips down here!) and a whacker plate will sort most of your potential problems more cheaply and more effectively than buying a tractor.

[Ootohere]

 

http://kouki.co.uk/utilities/visual-tyre-size-calculator

You do not need to be limited by the choice of tyres available for the use you want & for your 17" rims.

(you could go to 215/55 R 17 tyres.)

Briskoda For Sales or elseswhere will find you 16" Wheels or even Wheels & Tyres.

Edited 9 February, 2017 by Offski

[PirateSyrett]

^^^^^ +1 on Offski's advice - lots more choice for AT tyres in 16" wheel sizes, but watch out for your larger front calipers on your 170 if you do change!

[Jeeves]

My thoughts are well known so I won't bore you all again.

 

Some years ago I mentioned the Nexen N'Priz 4S but ONLY because the tread pattern looks "useful" especially when compared to Mich CC.  My own experience of Nexen (winters not all-seasons) has been mixed, but one set did get some abuse year-round to their detriment.  I'm refitting the others (as a larger conversion) on my new car next month since they're still on compatible wheels.

As they're inexpensive they may be an experiment worth taking providing you err on the side of caution until you know them and also assuming your other searches prove fruitless.

 

Just trying to be creative within the constraints...

[MuddyLanes]

6 hours ago, PirateSyrett said:

^^^^^ +1 on Offski's advice - lots more choice for AT tyres in 16" wheel sizes, but watch out for your larger front calipers on your 170 if you do change!

 

I've just spoken to my insurers, Direct line. They said a change of wheel size is a no-no.

 

I also asked about All Season tyres, which was a new one on the guy answering the phone! As were speed ratings and load ratings. He did however, speak to the underwriters, and they said it was OK to drop from a W speed rating to a V. And OK to go up from a 94 load rating to a 98 (various tyres I've looked at are only available as 98V rather than my current 94W - any good technical reasons for this?). At least I think so - communication was slightly difficult.

 

Has anybody else (PirateSyrett?) spoken to their insurers about this sort of change? I don't want to give them any reason to wriggle out if I ever have to make a claim. FWIW the maximum speed of the Yeti-170 according to the handbook is 201 kph (about 125 mph), so H-rated tyres onwards would presumably be legally acceptable? Not sure how the load factor comes into it? One might think more (98 v 94) is better, but?

[MuddyLanes]

7 hours ago, PirateSyrett said:

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by your 170 4x4 on Cross Climates and.......if it really doesn't work..........then I think you'll find a couple of lorry loads of road planings (cheap as chips down here!) and a whacker plate will sort most of your potential problems more cheaply and more effectively than buying a tractor.

 

Good idea - will have to look at that, if the lorry can get up the track of course!

[MuddyLanes]

18 hours ago, Volvomeg said:

I would seriously consider pirelli scorpion zero's (not the asimmetrico ones)

 

On normal road cars i hate pirelli's with a passion but these on my xc90 were great

 

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Pirelli/Scorpion-Zero.htm

 Again not available in my size :(

 

I presume then, that "real" offroaders have big wheels? Though, obviously, some people swear by 16" wheels!

[Ootohere]

Who ever you talked to at Direct Line was talking rubbish as long as Type Approved wheels are fitted and you can check which wheels and tyres are the Approved & Recommended ones for use if Chains were fitted and that could be in Continental European Countries with a UK Registered and insured vehicle.

[PirateSyrett]

+1 again for Offski!

 

We had 16" and 17" wheels for our Freelander both of which were genuine Land Rover wheels and so we didn't talk with our insurer because they were both OEM and approved.

 

If I could be bothered to do this with our Yeti I'd go the same route and source a set of second hand Skoda 16" wheels, fit Yokohama Geolandars and crack right on - but I can't.....and so we have our original wheels with cross climates and no wheel storage issues, plus our insurers are content as we haven't materially altered anything.

 

But I also doubt any insurance loss adjuster would quibble OEM Skoda wheels of a mildly different size unless they're also a member of Briskoda!

 

22" spinners with elastic band tyres might be noticed though.....but since they're also cr@p off road, maybe not for you!

 

 

[MuddyLanes]

So what makes the 16" wheel so much better???

[PirateSyrett]

Greater tyre choice because most 'more focussed' offroad tyres have a higher sidewall than your and my 50 profile 225/50r17s.