I am considering buying a 12V suction pump (€15 from Lidl) to change the oil myself, at least for the intermediate service. This way it will cost me almost half the money, always using the same long life oil.

 

Has anyone tried it? The service manual says either draining from the plug or suctioning off the top is a valid option.

As every engine has a different oil sump / dip stick configuration, I am worried if some old oil or sludge is left at the bottom of ours.

Call me old fashioned but i dont believe you can beat doing it the correct method from underneath via the drain plug when the oil is warm.

The pump method to me is something designed by lazy dealers to cut corners.

Simples or Simply Clever, do what professionals do,  suck out the oil, then fit the new sump plug. Job done safely.

You need to raise the car and remove the insulation from underneath - you can't do it at home, unfortunately.

As above - you can't beat doing it the way god intended, using gravity to drain it out the bottom. 

 

Funnily enough this exact question was raised and discussed in this forum just a few weeks ago,

 

It is easy to raise the car on your driveway and remove the undertray. I do it on mine with nothing more than 2x Lidl trolley jacks. 

On 06/04/2017 at 16:55, eyegr said:

You need to raise the car and remove the insulation from underneath - you can't do it at home, unfortunately.

Rubbish.

I do mine on my drive with a trolley jack.

Vacuum pumps have been in use for years in marine environments (where getting underneath will generally mean scuba gear) with no ill effects. I use one on all my oil changes, and on the odd time I've dropped the sump plug to check how much is left in the sump, there's only ever about an egg cup full. Plus, the vacuum pump means (at least on the diesel engines) you can get about another half litre out of the oil cooler and filter housing.

On 06/04/2017 at 16:55, eyegr said:

You need to raise the car and remove the insulation from underneath - you can't do it at home, unfortunately.

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I have seen in a while.

 

Vacuum oil change is actually better than sump method, so long as it is performed on a warm engine so that all oil comes out. On many/most VW diesels, you actually get more oil out using this method, because sump draining does not remove all oil from the oil cooler,/filter area and you can vacuum between half glass to a half pint of oil from there, depending on the engine. I have actually opened sum after vacuuming the oil out, and there was on oil there.

 

Having said that, the electric pumps such as the Lidl one have a problem with hot oil flowing through them, actually in case of the Lidl one the pump looks solid but the pipework looks low temperature only and not very rigid (important for dipstick tube).

 

I use a hand-operated Sealey TP69 oil extractor with nylon/polyamide tubing, much better for this role.

My Superb has never had a sump oil change, just 2x spot check if there is anything left in the sump (there wasn't). After 11 years and 170k+ miles, the engine still has no oil related problems. Apart from the 2.5TDI V6 on the Superb, I use the same oil extractor also on 1.6TDI in the 2012 Roomster, and used it also on the 1.9TDI Octavia. Far less work with vacuum extractor and better result every time than a sump change.

 

So if anyone tells you that sump oil change is better than a vacuum one done right (on warm engine), check if they have interest in local garage network or any actual experience of both procedures.

 

An extract from a Dealers Service Manual as posted by a member in a Skoda Yeti Oil Service thread.

Drain off or suction off engine oil.doc

Well that is good to know - the manufacturer seems to favour either option equally.

 

However, my personal preference is still draining - there's less risk of anything going wrong (other than a messy floor) and requires no specialist extraction equipment. Among my many concerns with suction is a pipe splitting or coming undone and depositing sludge from the sump elsewhere in the engine.

 

Also, you can judge with more visual certainty if all the oil is out with draining. As you can't see the pipe going all the way in, you can't be sure it's found the bottom of the sump rather than a baffle. It can only be an inch or so difference, but still means an inch or so of gunk might inadvertently evade the suction pipe if you haven't found the true bottom. 

Tried and tested and many will agree, warm oil drained,

just not 'At operating temperature oil' so at around 90*oC.

The suction hose on mine (and I presume others as well) is steel reinforced with a strong hard vinyl protective cover over it. I have no concerns about it splitting, and as it's one long piece where it goes into the engine it's not ever likely to leave any behind. Unless it's knackered before you put it down the hole that is.

As for less to go wrong, how many posts have you seen on forums where someone has removed the sump plug and found it's stripped the threads and won't go back in again. Either a new sump, or welding the hole and tapping, or a helicoil insert needed.

 

As for judging how much oil is removed, there's a series of indicators on the suction bottle conveniently marked in ltrs so you can measure the volume drawn off. Okay, so that only tells you how much you got out and not how much you left behind, but if you get 4ltrs out and the fill volume is 4ltrs, then there's not much left to worry about. Plus, it doesn't stop sucking when there's no oil left so you can continue vacuuming round the bottom of the sump by twisting the pipe, and pick up the last remains. You get a feel for where the bottom of the sump is when you use it, and a convenient piece of tape on the pipe will indicate where you were last time so you can repeat the same procedure.

 

£35 for a suction pump (what I paid for mine) is comparable to a cheap trolley jack and a set of dodgy axle stands. I'd rather stand in front of the car and work than roll underneath anyway, my old kneebones don't function as well as they did when I was a lad (due to spending most of my working day kneeling on hard floors).

 

If I had a 2 post lift, an oil drain trolley and suchlike I'd have the car up and have a look at draining it from underneath maybe, but I don't.

I have the best of both worlds. I always change oil and filter an extra time between service schedule at the garage. Dead fussy me, as I have always over oil and filter changed every vehicle, including M/C most of my life. Crawled under car on trolley jack and axle stands, take off the undertray and drain oil via sump plug. Have done it this way for more decades than I care to admit. Now the garage drain oil via sump plug every 10k miles and I suck it out from the top via a Pella 6000 in between services, dead easy. Just make sure the oil is fairly hot, I drive it 4 miles from cold to warm the oil, and then suck it out in about 15mins. When the car gets too old to bother keeping up garage service history, all the oil changes will be done by me via the Pela 6000.

Another vote from me for the Pela 6000. I used one on a smart car when I had one (they didn't have sump plugs!). Worked well enough.

Another vote for the Pela. Very easy to use, then just take it to the tip to drain out. Saves messing around with undertrays and their rusty screws.

 

Pela has capacity markings on the side, so you can see how much you have extracted.

 

Pela is the answer.

2 minutes ago, RickTT said:

Pela is the answer.

 The sealey one is the exact same unit as well so if anybody is in the market for one is worth checking both to see if there are any price differences at the time

Well, I'm about to start my own servicing on my Rapid 1.6tdi, and having read about the suction pump method I was a bit dubious, being of the "sludge out of the drain plug" mentality.

 

So  I did a bit of thinking - as you do. sometimes..

 

My collector cans for draining the engine oil have been of the DIY variety - 5l plastic oil can with the side cut out! And indeed after a couple of years use you could see the sludge building up in these as a number of oil changes were completed.

 

My current drainer "bucket" is an old Duckhams item (I think - labels long since gone) that I've used for maybe 15 or 20 years - still with the side cut out but its made of thicker plastic than the oil cans.

 

Yesterday I did an oil change on my MX5 - no option but to get under that, anyone whose serviced these will know that the sump plug is easy to get at compared to the oil filter! But I digress.

 

My oil drain can has no sludge in it, even after several years use. So I checked it very carefully once the work on the MX5 was complete. I tip the old oil back into an empty can through a cheap funnel - which happens to be clear plastic. No bits, no residue, no sludge sticking to anything, not the funnel, nor the drainer can, nor even the newspaper I put into the drainer to absorb the residual oil while its in storage. In fact I can't remember the last time I saw any muck coming out of an engine, be it VW, Mazda, or Vauxhall.

 

So where has the sludge gone that I used to get out of car engines in the old days (60's and 70's).

 

Its either staying in the engine despite draining via the sump plug, or it simply isn't there any more.

 

So for me, especially given that a vacuum pump is one of the oil drain options in the workshop manual for the Skoda, I'm getting the pump. Especially if the oil filter is as easy to get to as it appears!

 

BTW I've always changed the oil at about 6k - 7k miles, except for when oil change intervals were 6k miles when I did it at 3k miles. 5 oil changes a year on a Marina, must have been mad!

 

 

30 minutes ago, RMurphy195 said:

Yesterday I did an oil change on my MX5 - no option but to get under that, anyone whose serviced these will know that the sump plug is easy to get at compared to the oil filter!

 

 

Yes I have to do mine shortly. If it's the Mk3 filter you are talking about, yes what a pain, who designed it to go there?

 

Re lack of sludge these days, could be the modern engines and better oils have something to do with it?

On 12/04/2017 at 19:56, RickTT said:

Pela is the answer.

+1

2 hours ago, MickA said:

 

Yes I have to do mine shortly. If it's the Mk3 filter you are talking about, yes what a pain, who designed it to go there?

 

Re lack of sludge these days, could be the modern engines and better oils have something to do with it?

Yes its the MK3 - and what a pain it is getting under there to make sure the filter wrench doesn't foul the little pipe that goes partway around the filter! Its the Ford Mondeo (FWD) engine - on that car I suspect the filter is easier to get at.

 

I suspect it is the combination of modern engines/better oils/better temperature control/quicker warm-up that keeps the sludge down.

Well, gave it a go yesterday with a shiny new Sealey TP69, and all went smoothly and easily (apart from dropping the screw holding the bracket that you have to remove - it's still presumably sitting on the plastic undershield somewhere). And apart from not tugging hard enough to remove the paper oil filter element from its holder.

 

As someone else has said, I was able to suck some oil out of the filter casing that otherwise I wouldn't have been able to remove.

 

The oil took about 10-15 mins to remove, with a little extra pumping, just left the pump to it while I gained access to the oil filter.

 

Bit disappointed to find how much oil is left in the engine that you can't get at though, by either method (see my separate post "Oil Capacity").

 

I did have a go at removing the undershield while looking for the lost screw, but gave up since I couldn't be bothered out get the ramps out (it started to rain).

 

NB if you do lose the screw for the bracket an M6 setscrew of about 15mm length will do it. Ironically while I was making sure the thing went back together a neighbour popped over for a chat and - you guessed it - I dropped that one as well! Managed to find it though. Bargain price on oil at Halfords at present - have set up a separate post for it.