On 25/05/2017 at 06:32, lol-lol said:

Zoe will do up to 140 kph and effective range of about 250 Kms.   

 

Problem there is use it at ‘normal’ speeds (70 mph) and the range drops to 120 miles.

 

The only EV that grabs me so far is the Model 3, in order of importance for me: 

 

215+ miles range

0-60 in less than 6 seconds

Decent levels of spec 

Don’t look too bad

A true 5 seater

Affordable as they start from less than £23K (including grants)

1 hour ago, Gizmo68 said:

 

Problem there is use it at ‘normal’ speeds (70 mph) and the range drops to 120 miles.

The only EV that grabs me so far is the Model 3, in order of importance for me: 

215+ miles range

0-60 in less than 6 seconds

Decent levels of spec 

Don’t look too bad

A true 5 seater

Affordable as they start from less than £23K (including grants)

 

I think you are probably looking at 130 miles at 70 mph though I struggle to find anything like 100 miles of clear road these days as so much of the UK motorway network is so much under upgrade, like the M5 near me being upgraded to smart motorway and then there is the bit of the M25 between M40 and Heathrow that seems to be at 40 to 50 mph during all daylight hours and more and at these 50 mph speeds that everyone is limited to the range is more like 185 miles. https://www.renault.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/zoe-250.html

 

With current exchange rate ie 1.28 USD/£, the 10% import duty until BREXIT and then God knows what I expect the price to closer to £30K compared the Zoe's £16K for the 41 KwH version.  The Model 3 boots (front and back) are less than 400 litres which is not exactly huge and the rear passenger space does not look huge either. I tend to find all these sorts of cars and only compy for 3 or maybe 4 person but not 5 if the driver is tall as I am.

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Deal I am looking at..      Dynamique Nav R90 Z.E. 40 FROM  £22,670.00  (Government pay £4,500)

• 5 Years' 0% APR representative, Nil customer deposit
• With £2,500 deposit contribution**
• Mandatory battery hire from £59 per month†
• Free domestic wall-box fitted at your home by Chargemaster^^
• 4 years warranty & Renault Assistance††

Spec good enough for my needs:-

EXTERIOR STYLING • 16" ‘black shadow’ alloy wheels • Chrome front grille surround INTERIOR STYLING • Black Dynamique Nav upholstery • Steering wheel leather-covered DRIVING AND CONTROLS • Hands-free keycard with push button Start/Stop function • Automatic headlights and rain sensitive front wipers COMFORT AND CONVENIENCE • Electric windows - rear COMMUNICATION AND ON-BOARD TECHNOLOGY • 4x35W 3D sound Renault R-Link Multimedia system including 7” touch screen, TomTom® LIVE navigation, DAB FM tuner, Bluetooth®* audio streaming and hands-free calls, and voice control • Rear parking sensors.

 

A lot of car for the money (less than £16K over 5 years capiital cost) IMO and pretty cheap motoring per mile even with battery hire, I would go for the unlimited (25k per year) mileage battery rental at £109 pm. If battery drops below 75% capacity it get replaced, plenty of ICE cars where producing less than 75% after 100,000 mile I found when working on a rolling road.    

Edited 28 May, 20179 yr by lol-lol

The boot is not huge, but is on par with say a 3 series BMW so not tiny either, still going to be a big improvement on the Yeti (which we just about manage with @ 321L) but this is supposedly because the front and rear seats have been moved towards the front and rear of the car respectively to make it a true 5 seater (a decent shot of this can be seen at 4:58 below)

 

Time will really tell next month when they roll off the production line, currently keeping my options open, me and SWMBO are both 5’8” so will not be an issue anyway (and I have my Superb if masses of legroom is needed.)

 

 

15 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

 

Deal I am looking at..      Dynamique Nav R90 Z.E. 40 FROM  £22,670.00  (Government pay £4,500)

• Mandatory battery hire from £59 per month†

 

 

We are a 2 person 2 car family and we only do about 6000 miles per annum in each car (My wifes is a 1.4 Clio). From the Renault site states that the battery hire for 6000 miles per annum is £69 per month. This equates to 13.8ppm before the cost of the electricity is added which is hardly cheap motoring in my book.

If someone just wants a reliable and green car for short trips or commutes to work then a 66 plate Renault Zoe can be had for £13,000, 

and 16 plate for £8,000 or less.

Plenty Free EV Charging in parts of the UK.

Edited 29 May, 20179 yr by Awayoffski

52 minutes ago, Liger1956 said:

 

We are a 2 person 2 car family and we only do about 6000 miles per annum in each car (My wifes is a 1.4 Clio). From the Renault site states that the battery hire for 6000 miles per annum is £69 per month. This equates to 13.8ppm before the cost of the electricity is added which is hardly cheap motoring in my book.

I looked at electric when replacing the Wife's car and bought her a Fabia Combi 1.2 TSI 110. Yesterday going down to the coast the computer showed a average MPG of 57. I would estimate we are getting high 40's - low 50's overall, so at 6000 miles a year at current fuel prices it is going cost between £650- £700 a year in unleaded, to rent the batteries for a year it will cost £828, whether you drive the car or not and it looks like the minimum rental period is 36 months.

So allowing for VED the actual running costs are about the same although I do not kow how insurance costs compare. I understand that servicing costs are slightly less on an EV as well but I service our cars myself. Can you still do this with an EV? As we regularly make journeys of 160 mile and 220 mile (Stockport to Lincoln and Stockport to near Peterbrough and return in one day) to visit elderly parents and have to park on the road I do not think that an electric vehicle would suit our needs at the moment without stopping somewhere to charge and charging points being available and not occupied. We could always use the Octavia for all long journeys but then the annual mileage on the EV would be even less making the cost of battery rental prohibitive. A second hand Leaf would seem a better bet but then the worry would be the state of the battery and the replacement cost.

 

We are not thinking of changing our cars for at least another 5 years so we will see how the technology has evolved by then (and wheteher by Octavia Diesel is a museum piece or scrappage scheme casualty).

From today's PBS NewsHour 

 

20 hours ago, Liger1956 said:

So allowing for VED the actual running costs are about the same although I do not kow how insurance costs compare. I understand that servicing costs are slightly less on an EV as well but I service our cars myself. Can you still do this with an EV? As we regularly make journeys of 160 mile and 220 mile (Stockport to Lincoln and Stockport to near Peterbrough and return in one day) to visit elderly parents and have to park on the road I do not think that an electric vehicle would suit our needs at the moment without stopping somewhere to charge and charging points being available and not occupied. We could always use the Octavia for all long journeys but then the annual mileage on the EV would be even less making the cost of battery rental prohibitive. A second hand Leaf would seem a better bet but then the worry would be the state of the battery and the replacement cost.

We are not thinking of changing our cars for at least another 5 years so we will see how the technology has evolved by then (and whether by Octavia Diesel is a museum piece or scrappage scheme casualty).

 

We know behavior in usage/purchase of cars can be led by taxation, and choosing not to tax certain types of goods.  We use to have Car Tax I remember, vans etc being exempt as tools of business.  The UK will shortly have the opportunity to do more taxation adjustment as the UK leaves the EU by setting its own import duties. The UK buys 2.7M cars but only 400k are actually built in the UK but this may well change massively after BREXIT.

 

If, as looks likely, there will be no comprehensive BREXIT Free Trade Agreement, and in conjunction with further moves in EURO-GBP exchange rates, then the compound effect of rates of exchange and tariff would drastically affect the UK car retail market in terms of sales prices and volumes.   10% Ad Valorem is the prevailing duty rate.  What the UK, and indeed the EU could do, as the UK makes the Nissan Leaf and the EU makes the Renault Zoe, the two largest selling EVs, and those companies are in Alliance also, is to influence, as well as for air quality purposes, that EVs have respective import duties of 0% rather than 10%.

 

The UK government, which is a vast financial hole, going a billion pounds a week in national debt, could at least raise fuel excise duty in line with Consumer Price Inflation, though as it is not giving millions of nurses, police and teachers such rises hardly sounds fair on that level, reducing VAT back down to 15% would help though.  

 

The various taxes, excise duties, import duties, VAT and VED can all be used to steer behavior for the health benefits.  UK is importing more diesel and Jet oil than it has in 32 years....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/05/27/uk-reliance-on-oil-product-imports-hits-32-year-high/     

 

Scrappage akinned to continued to EV subsidies looks like the way all parties will go with more nuclear and renewable to feed the increasing EVs in the UK.    

 

 

     

 

 

Flattening a Hyundai Ioniq 

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1110768_hyundai-ioniq-electric-what-happens-when-battery-is-run-down-to-the-end