Hi

I have a leggy mk2 petrol vrs which has done 140k.

I'm thinking of swapping to a mk3 1.4 would i be feeling disappointed performance wise.

The official figures dont look to bad i dont want a diesel as i frequent London and Nottingham which are both not very diesel friendly.

I fancy an auto for a change would that really sap the performance as well.

Thanks

 

I don't think DSG will sap performance. If anything the DSGs tend to be quicker. 

I've had a 1.4 TSi DSG for a couple of years and came to it from a Volvo V70 2.5T.

 

It's no VRS and isn't meant to be. But it's perfectly respectable and works particularly well with the DSG which doesn't sap performance at all because it's a double-clutch auto rather than a hydraulic clutch auto (i.e., you don't get the frictional losses). If you look at the official figures, the seven-speed DSG auto is more economical than the six-speed manual. Driven sensibly, you'll probably average somewhere between 40-44mpg.

 

0-60 acceleration is 8-9 seconds, mid range pull pretty muscular. For a 1.4 pulling a sizeable car, it's surprisingly strong.

I test drove a 1.4 TSI MkIII when looking to move on from my MkII vRS. 

 

It is a nippy motor for sure, but was not quick enough for my tastes. Ended up with a MkIII TSI vRS. 

 

 

MK1 VRS, not so much of a problem, MK2 tho, you will notice & remapping them is NOT recommended as the gearboxes & clutches are designed for a safe max of 250Nm. Which is a right PITA as the engine can produce quite a bit more BHP & Nm, just that these not much point if the NM has to capped for safety.

 

I really looked into these gearboxes & engines & remaps when I bought my MK7 Golf almost 3yrs ago....decided against it & spent the money on Shell Vpower instead...

You are going to have to try one yourself and make up you own mind on number of aspects.

Of course the mk3 will have less performance but it is more than adequate and will provide noticeably better consumption in most circumstances than your current car.

The mk3 1.4tsi has the lesser quality torsion beam rear suspension, it does not have multi-link rear suspension (it is available on vRS, and AWD models) and this could be an issue for you. Personally I only notice it when driving on badly corrugated dirt roads.

In real life the DSG box is not more economical than manual, that is just a peculiarity of the official consumption tests, but the DSG box is very efficient and superb when on the move. Some complain about its characteristics at lower speeds and in stop/start traffic however views on this aspect are very polarised and the only opinion that counts is your own.

If you are looking at keeping the car for some time then the 7 speed DSG box in the 1.4tsi can burn out clutch packs (if it is subjected to a lot of town driving and a mechanically unsympathetic driver).

The wet DSG boxes in the more powerful petrol and diesel models is particularly robust and do not seem to have the problem.

 

The 1.4 tsi can be nippy & its can be modified to 200+ horses & 300+Nm (quite cheaply) however, frugal it can be, it can sup faster than George Best when given some beans.

 

The DSG is faster than the manual unless you can change gear as well as a racing driver, the 250 torque limit only applies in 1st & 2nd so really, not worth considering in the real world

 

In short, the 1.4 ain't as quick as the vRS but, its not 7 or 8 grand slower

46 minutes ago, themanwithnoaim said:

The 1.4 tsi can be nippy & its can be modified to 200+ horses & 300+Nm (quite cheaply)

 

That "quite cheaply" ends up costing way more in the long term as you are way beyond the safe torque limits of the gearboxes & clutch's fitted to these engines.

 

MTM & ABT capped the torque limit to 250Nm for this very reason. I know I spoke to them as I spent a lot of time researching the various maps for the engine as was looking at getting mine done & quite happy to spend over £1k.

 

All the proper maps require you to run on super unleaded aswell...so I just saved money & have piece of mind,....no map & just use Shell Vpower....

Hmmmm, as you say a map alone won't get you there but, open up the other half of the air intake, add a sports air filter, run 99 ron fuel, throw a tuning box in the mix & bingo.

 

Seen one on the Surrey Rolling Road's rollers & the DSG was still fine at 35k miles so, kinda figure its ok to do, some people are just too conservative but, when both your insurance & professional reputation is on the line, it pays to be.

7 minutes ago, themanwithnoaim said:

Hmmmm, as you say a map alone won't get you there but, open up the other half of the air intake, add a sports air filter, run 99 ron fuel, throw a tuning box in the mix & bingo.

 

Seen one on the Surrey Rolling Road's rollers & the DSG was still fine at 35k miles so, kinda figure its ok to do, some people are just too conservative but, when both your insurance & professional reputation is on the line, it pays to be.

 

I'd build a free flow CAI sealed intake like I did for my MK1 Fabia, way better than anything on the market....

 

The DSG is a dry pack not the strong wet pack, so weaker, but the NM safe limit is slightly higher than the MQ250 manual fitted to the 1.4 140/150PS engines

Just now, fabdavrav said:

 

I'd build a free flow CAI sealed intake like I did for my MK1 Fabia, way better than anything on the market...

Yeah but, then your flow restriction is on the manifold & then you do start spending pennies increasing flow there.

 

The 1.4 owner didn't want throw money at it or as he said "Spend too much & I'd be better off just go & buy a vRS" 

Plenty have been running Euro 5 1.4 TSI / TFSI 132-136kw (185ps / 250Nm) Twinchargers remapped to 220ps (320Nm) plus with a standard DQ200 7 speed twin dry clutch 

and none on here have been reporting failures.

 

Oddly plenty running a standard CAVE or CTHE engine have had failures of DQ200 DSG 7 speeds due to Skoda / VW Clutch Packs & MCU's, 

odd that and makes you wonder if maybe those less enthusiastic just put up with being told early there was nothing wrong with the poorly built /quality controlled DSG while those tuning were lucky or remapped cars with good boxes.

(Or they just punted them as they went wrong and told nobody....)

 

PS

2015 on VW Polo GTI 1.8TSI has 192ps & 320 NM with the manual and 250Nm with the DQ200 DSG 7 speed.

Both given by VW as the same 0-62 mph, and seemingly a DSG is heavier.

Vorsprung Durch Technik, just make it up as you go along, the 1.4 TSI 180ps CTHE DSG was actually as quick or quicker...some had 190ps as standard.

 

 

Edited 19 July, 20178 yr by Awayoffski

10 minutes ago, themanwithnoaim said:

Yeah but, then your flow restriction is on the manifold & then you do start spending pennies increasing flow there.

 

The 1.4 owner didn't want throw money at it or as he said "Spend too much & I'd be better off just go & buy a vRS" 

 

I'll clarify, I'd only do that & remaps etc if the gearboxes/ clutches etc could cope with the increased torque...they can't so I don't...mind you in my case the next petrol engine size up is the "R" estate...

 

On Topic, just keep on regular maintenance, use good oils & use top fuels...no hassles then..but a MK3 Octavia 1.4TSi has basic rear suspension & way less power than the MK2 VRS that you had...& you will notice both...

 

My MK7 Golf estate 1.4 has the multi link & lower sports suspension, only none VRS in MK3 Octavia with multilink rear was the L&K. But that had the same limiting torque factor with the gearboxes etc even though it had 180PS....

11 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

Plenty have been running Euro 5 1.4 TSI / TFSI 132-136kw (195ps) Twinchargers remapped to 220ps plus with a standard DQ200 7 speed twin dry clutch 

and none on here have been reporting failures.

 

Oddly plenty running a standard CAVE or CTHE engine have had failures of DQ200 DSG 7 speeds due to Skoda / VW Clutch Packs & MCU's, 

odd that and makes you wonder if maybe those less enthusiastic just put up with being told early there was nothing wrong with the poorly built /quality controlled DSG while those tuning were lucky or remapped cars with good boxes.

(Or they just punted them as they went wrong and told nobody....)

 

PS

2015 on VW Polo GTI 1.8TSI has 192ps & 320 NM with the manual and 250Nm with the DQ200 DSG 7 speed.

Both given by VW as the same 0-62 mph, and seemingly a DSG is heavier.

Vorsprung Durch Technik, just make it up as you go along, the 1.4 TSI 180ps CTHE DSG was actually as quick or quicker...some had 190ps as standard.

 

 

 

Its torque that kills it not PS/BHP...

 

The 1.8TSI Polo GTI manual had the MQ350 manual gearbox...which is why 320NM....

 

The DQ200 DSG 7speed dry has as safe 250Nm limit....all the wet types have values of 380Nm & over...

Did you not read anything i said about remapped to 320Nm.

 

Plenty go to the 1/4 Mile or Sprints or Hillclimbs with Stage 1 or stage 2 1.4 TSI / TFSI or even the New Polo 1.8TSI 192ps 250Nm but with a remap and DSG and some have been doing for the past few years, Standing Starts.(an Australian member with a Stage 2 Twincharger has one his class in various events, standard DQ200)

 

The 250Nm bit is VW's cover all and actually some of their DSG DQ200 have been like made of chocolate, 

but then there was the World Wide Recall & European Service campaign. 34F7

 

No excuse for the need for '34H5' service campaign now on boxes 2013-2015 that was just pure VW hopelessness.

 

But if breakages are your concern then no matter about having more than 250 Nm from the engine unless you are maybe using it.

Not that likely on a 60 or 70 mph speed limit road is it?

 

Obviously the just press the fast pedal GTR was messed up a little against the standard family estate with just the 180ps/ 250Nm & DSG

or as this one was as standard 189ps or whatever. (mapped or tuning box ones are quicker and not prone to DSG failure.)

 

Edited 19 July, 20178 yr by Awayoffski

19 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

Did you not read anything i said about remapped to 320Nm.

 

Plenty go to the 1/4 Mile or Sprints or Hillclimbs with Stage 1 or stage 2 1.4 TSI / TFSI or even the New Polo 1.8TSI 192ps 250Nm and DSG and some have been doing for the past few years, Standing Starts.(an Australian member with a Stage 2 Twincharger has one his class in various events, standard DQ200)

 

 

You can tune an engine to whatever it can cope with...but go beyond the "safe" limits & then you are on your own...it will affect stuff sooner or later..if you want to gamble then fine the OP can go get a 1.4 & tune it to the max & it should cope & the DSG should be good for 320NM as you say as others have done it...

 

When his DSG fails sooner or later then are you going to pay for a new one, for him?...or are the tuning companies going to?...

 

I don't think so...which is why I don't recommend going beyond the safe VAG limits...

?

Did your DSG need or get the latest Service Campaign / software update, 35H5?

 

 

Of course you are on your own.  

Chill man you are so ooooo risky..  might have to spend money fixing your car and not have a warranty cover it.

 

As i said the DQ200 DSG is liable to fail any way because up to 2013 VW used Synthetic Oil in the MCU and since going Mineral they ballsed up the software,  at least now you can hold their feet to the fire when the 3 year manufcturers warranty has expired because even standard cars have DSG's with some of the components and fluids with Fundamental Design and Manufacturing faults & quality control failings.

At least with the world wide recall and some World Regions they did a proper job on ones with synthetic from the factory and replaced the Mechatronic Control Units.

http://skoda.co.uk/news/dsg-service-campaign 

 

Best buy a 6 Speed Wet DSG, safe as houses, but then VW are dropping them to go 7 speed wet.

Vorsprung Durch Technik.  Keep them in the dark and tell no lies.

 

Edited 19 July, 20178 yr by Awayoffski

9 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

Of course you are on your own.  

Chill man you are so ooooo risky..  might have to spend money fixing your car and not have a warranty cover it.

 

 

I just prefer to not have arguments with the dealers etc if the engine or gearbox goes bang & I've tuned it as those usually cost loads of money to fix.....Been there done similar & don't want to do that again, which is why when I do mod my car the items are either within the VAG tolerances & better or are OEM fit in other counties etc..

 

Anyway the OP is looking at new reading his post, & if the engine has problems & VAG call for a connection of the cars OBD back to HQ they can tell if a piggy back or remap has been used & removed, big section on the MK7 forum on this

Edited 19 July, 20178 yr by fabdavrav

I was thinking of the 1.4 as i like the mk3 shape and i cant afford a mk3 vrs. I really should have something more economic than my current car but then other times i think sod it i want something nice to sit in with a bit of go! 

I might even end up looking at a late mk2 vrs as i have really enjoyed my vrs.

35 minutes ago, baldy1926 said:

I was thinking of the 1.4 as i like the mk3 shape and i cant afford a mk3 vrs. I really should have something more economic than my current car but then other times i think sod it i want something nice to sit in with a bit of go! 

I might even end up looking at a late mk2 vrs as i have really enjoyed my vrs.

 

Having owned a MK2 FL VRS and a MK3 Pre-FL VRS, I feel the MK3 is a better car overall. Unless the "go" is a dealbreaker, I'd rather have a 1.4 tsi MK3 rather than a late MK2 FL VRS - the interior is nicer and the infotainment is a huge improvement.

 

The TSI in the MK2 FL VRS also has chain cam issues which allegedly later models are less susceptible to, but I suspect you'll pay close to early MK3 VRS money for a late MK2 FL.

Edited 19 July, 20178 yr by ahenners