fan runs on

[mrcrow]

17 hours ago, dmcc97 said:

My 1.6 tdi mk6 golf has had the same symptoms since i bought it. I was told it was fine. It had went over 90 to about 100 mark on the gauge. Replaced water pump and timing belt. It was fine for about 500 miles until now. Fans usually on even after light driving but don't seem to come on when they need to? No fault codes, no loss of coolant, no drop of mpg etc

 

i had a 2001 from new golf 1.6S 16 valve...

one of the things that ruined our love affair was the repeat failure of lamda and cat...usually ever 2 years but that was from 2014 and 2016...gave it a full mot and a full tank of petrol...and said goodbye to it...

shame..it was a cracker for zip in its early life...did 137k in 15 years...tyres did 35k...i dont race or accellerate a lot except when driving over 50mph...motorway stuff

work was always done in garages...except sorting out the door locks and fitting a cd player

too much ££££ for one now

cheers

geof

 

[mrcrow]

10 hours ago, Wonky said:

Is the fan switched through a relay? Could have welded it's contacts together if it has. Just a thought. 

 

another possibility...i havent sussed out where the relay is...may be more accessible than the two items shown below...but i think they do the job albeit in the engine compartment...most relays iirc live in nice warm and dry places...probably just as inaccessible without major surgery and cut hands...

i have found the fuses...the fan has a 30 amp!!...probably to cover start up load as a lot of motors do...

i may pull the fuse for a couple of short drives...12-20 miles and then check the radiator temperature...

i am advised that the temp guage likes to spend its time at 90....which in a pressurised system is ok...

funny the 90 is in the middle of the gauge...i think the needle starts to rise at about 80 and tops at 100 celsius

if i get the willies i will put the fuse back in and run on fan on all time and go back to my disconnecting the battery overnight.

cheers

geof

 

[mrcrow]

10 hours ago, Wino said:

Two actually. One for low speed operation, another for full speed. Both reside in the fan control module.

If the problem isn't water ingress shorting stuff, welded contacts is probably the most likely explanation.

 

 

 

That's the PAS pump/reservoir on the  left of the fan module in the picture, and an extreme close-up of the radiator drain tap on the right.

 

thanks Wino

that is soooo clear to me as to what i am seeing from up top

and also explains the little green reservoir cap...visible beneath all the wiring looms

i can see with a torch the black module and thought to take the numbers off it with my camera to source the part and sort out the ££..i wouldnt hesitate to replace it right off..

wish i could get into the position you took this shot...that is from under the car with the large under engine panel taken off??

you have access to this at home or are you in the trade etc?

this must be the post of the week

many many thanks

cheers

geof

[Breezy_Pete]

Only have the short front-only undertrays on our two cars, removable without even lifting the car off the ground; just three screws on each side. 

I have some home-made wooden  ramps that I can drive up in three or four two inch steps. Gets enough room under there for most jobs. I'll look out a photo and edit it in.

 

Edited 23 July, 2017 by Wino

[mrcrow]

39 minutes ago, Wino said:

Only have the short front-only undertrays on our two cars, removable without even lifting the car off the ground; just three screws on each side. 

I have some home-made wooden  ramps that I can drive up in three or four two inch steps. Gets enough room under there for most jobs. I'll look out a photo and edit it in.

 

 

you da man!!!

i have the best info i could have got here....will get some timbers sorted out

its going to be an adventure now..no matter how long it takes....

cheers

geof

ps..that book...a man for all seasons?

 

cheers

geof

 

 

Edited 23 July, 2017 by mrcrow

[Breezy_Pete]

According to this page (item 23), the fan control module for a 2008 mk2 Fabia is the same part number as on my car - 1J0919506M.  Could be quite pricey new/genuine, I should think, I'd take a gamble on a secondhand unit off ebay, myself.  I wouldn't buy anything before checking for wetness inside connectors though, including the one on the radiator thermoswitch. 

Try not to use A/C with the 30A fan fuse removed to avoid the constant fan action; refrigerant pressures will be less well controlled if you only have the high-speed fan operation working.

[mrcrow]

14 minutes ago, Wino said:

According to this page (item 23), the fan control module for a 2008 mk2 Fabia is the same part number as on my car - 1J0919506M.  Could be quite pricey new/genuine, I should think, I'd take a gamble on a secondhand unit off ebay, myself.  I wouldn't buy anything before checking for wetness inside connectors though, including the one on the radiator thermoswitch. 

Try not to use A/C with the 30A fan fuse removed to avoid the constant fan action; refrigerant pressures will be less well controlled if you only have the high-speed fan operation working.

 

good thinking wino...

i dont know much about the a/c so your advice is timely and well placed...thanks

fuse stays in

i will do a recce on ebay for that part...i suppose you are right...will check for wetness first..

if that doesnt work then i can leave the panel off and have another play with the ramps...putting the new part in

radiator thermoswitch...is that on your photo..i

cheers

geof

 

ps had a peep...

 

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/oem/1j0919506m?gadw=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIw5GRuYyg1QIVbL7tCh19wwD6EAAYASAAEgKhhPD_BwE

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-AUDI-SEAT-SKODA-RADIATOR-FAN-CONTROL-RELAY-1J0919506M-/201376591695

 

Edited 23 July, 2017 by mrcrow

[Breezy_Pete]

Back on this page the thermoswitch is item 6, it goes in the second hole up on the left side of the rad, as pictured,  

I see there's a huge range of prices for the fan control module. Genuine Skoda one appears to be about £150

[mrcrow]

11 hours ago, Wino said:

Back on this page the thermoswitch is item 6, it goes in the second hole up on the left side of the rad, as pictured,  

I see there's a huge range of prices for the fan control module. Genuine Skoda one appears to be about £150

 

You know, the more you post the clearer things become. 

Is that diagram from a manual which I could buy?

thanks again 

cheers 

geof 

 

ps I got an email with pink ramps...doesn't show on the forum....???

[Breezy_Pete]

That site realoem.me/skoda is a handy one for looking up genuine part numbers.  It takes a while to learn how to navigate to what you are looking for, but once you get more familiar it gets easier.

 

Not sure what you are referring to with pink ramps.

[mrcrow]

18 minutes ago, Wino said:

That site realoem.me/skoda is a handy one for looking up genuine part numbers.  It takes a while to learn how to navigate to what you are looking for, but once you get more familiar it gets easier.

 

Not sure what you are referring to with pink ramps.

It's on the car ramps forum and it is a picture of a racy Skoda sitting on a low level pink ramp similar to your wooden design

I think the fellow is trying to attract my attention...

 

yes those part numbers are invaluable

now I can recognise things when I investigate the underside of the car.

 

thanks again 

geof

[mrcrow]

recent observation

this morning i went out and reconnected the battery...the fan started spinning...sort of slowly but consistently..not too much fan noise

i dropped the bonnet with a little clang...i am quite careful of those items...and

the fan stopped....for about 10 secs then started up to the quiet phase...ohoooo!!!

i drove off and the temperature got up to the usual 90, it was about 4 miles and outside temp 20

i parked and cut the engine and the fan was speeded up a bit...

i returned in 2 hours and it was still fanning...a new phrase instead of fannying about..

i drove home and on the way got some diesel..shell v super lock up your daughters once a month treat...say 6 miles

in the driveway i cut the engine and the fan was going well trying to cool the engine/radiator which felt healthily hot

top  hose and reservoir...

i have disconnected the battery now for evening prayers etc...cups of tea and tea vea...and browsing for jacks and wheel stands...my latest idea of getting access underneath on one side only...

this will be updated tomorrow

cheers

geof

[mrcrow]

today the fan belted into action as i attached the earth lead to the battery...

i drove about 20 miles..parked..still running..had lunch at the best beef place in town..arrived at the car..fan stopped..:)

drove home 6 miles... fan running again..still running

i opened the coolant reservoir and got the pop of pressurisation...

then i did my press the top hose once or twice to see if the water thermostat clicked and the water in the reservoir moved...(there is one i guess i know some folks left them out at one time...and where?)

didnt see any movement...

is there air in the system ..ie the engine block...somewhere

or

is the water pump actually pumping

is draining and refilling the cooling system easy to do ..drain **** etc under the radiator

and is that an action which is done regularly ...like changing brake fluid...

 

filled up with shell rocket fuel and all sounds quiet and smooth...

cheers

geof

Edited 26 July, 2017 by mrcrow

[rum4mo]

What colour is the coolant mixture, if it is pinkish, then I would not worry about needing to renew it as it should last for a long time.

 

Once you have the means to get the front of the car up in the air and so get the under cover off, find and unplug the thermal switch plug that controls the some of the fan functions, I don't know where it will be exactly on your car, so I will not guess!

[mrcrow]

17 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

What colour is the coolant mixture, if it is pinkish, then I would not worry about needing to renew it as it should last for a long time.

 

Once you have the means to get the front of the car up in the air and so get the under cover off, find and unplug the thermal switch plug that controls the some of the fan functions, I don't know where it will be exactly on your car, so I will not guess!

yes it is pink...and the level stays ok...

the other chaps have told me where to look to see the fan functions...and unfortunately they require access from underneath...which i am contemplating getting a jack and axle stands to get under the engine compartment

i think the problem started when driving in torrential rain and through flooded roads

it may dry out i hope

i can still use the car and disconnect the battery at night to avoid the fan spinning too long

cheers

geof

[rum4mo]

Sorry I should have made it clear that if you had a cold engine and cooling fan running - and you unplugged the fan thermal switch connector and the fan stopped running, you would have found the problem, hopefully, though it will remain running and that does sound like it will end up being the controller as wino hinted at.

[mrcrow]

35 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

Sorry I should have made it clear that if you had a cold engine and cooling fan running - and you unplugged the fan thermal switch connector and the fan stopped running, you would have found the problem, hopefully, though it will remain running and that does sound like it will end up being the controller as wino hinted at.

thermal switch connector...that is on the radiator?

wino gave me a diagram which i think shows this

the controller i take it is the black box near the front strut...pic also from wino

great guy...he could come over and look at it for me...??

 

 

here they are...be glad to know which to disconnect when engine cold...

cheers

geof

Edited 26 July, 2017 by mrcrow

[rum4mo]

Having not studied the circuit diagram covering this area of these cars, I'm not sure it the thermal switch is connected only to the fan controller, or if it is connected to another controller which then demands that the fan controller runs the fan(s) at low or high speed, also, I'd guess that the sensor shown at the left hand side of that diagram is this thermal switch.

 

Edit:- as you can see from the picture of the actual fan(s) controller, there are two connectors, the heavy one will be for the incoming fan power and the out going power to the fan(s), while the smaller one will just be the controls to the relays inside that controller.

 

Another Edit:- like all things, there is a knack to getting these connectors unplugged, if you are lucky, you can press the connector further in towards its mating part - this will relieve the load from the retaining latch, while keeping it pressed in, press down firmly on the latch "handle" on the plug body and while keeping that pressed down try to pull the connector out off its mating part.  There is a proper tool to make this job easier, but I've tended to find that all too often the connector is facing the wrong way to have enough room to get the correct tool on the connector. This is all very easy once you have actually removed a plug and seen how to use a small screwdriver to help the retaining latch up out of the locking position.

Edited 26 July, 2017 by rum4mo

[Breezy_Pete]

Good call on the connector latches, they can be easy to break if excess brutality is  applied. Some seem to push down towards the mating half, others you pull up, away from the mating part, some you squeeze in toward the body of the connector, some you pull out away!, Right old mish-mash of different types all over the car.  Patience and trying everything reasonably gently usually works in the end, but the tip about pushing the connection together to relieve the pressure on the latch is spot on @rum4mo.

 

I'd be happy to have a look at your car Geof, if you weren't so far away!

 

The (dual) thermoswitch on the radiator links directly to the fan control module, where it can energise one or both of the relays inside to put the fan(s) on at either speed , no 'brain' involved.  The fan control module does also have two connections from the HVAC module in the cabin, which allows for independently switching of the same two relays according to refrigerant pressure.

 

I've got a sketch somewhere of the circuitry that makes up the fan control module, but I can't find it just now.  Not much to it though, 2 relays, a few passive components and that's it.  Will edit it in when I find it.  Here's a (bad) photo of the innards:

 

Edited 27 July, 2017 by Wino

[mrcrow]

1 hour ago, Wino said:

Good call on the connector latches, they can be easy to break if excess brutality is  applied. Some seem to push down towards the mating half, others you pull up, away from the mating part, some you squeeze in toward the body of the connector, some you pull out away!, Right old mish-mash of different types all over the car.  Patience and trying everything reasonably gently usually works in the end, but the tip about pushing the connection together to relieve the pressure on the latch is spot on @rum4mo.

 

I'd be happy to have a look at your car Geof, if you weren't so far away!

 

The (dual) thermoswitch on the radiator links directly to the fan control module, where it can energise one or both of the relays inside to put the fan(s) on at either speed , no 'brain' involved.  The fan control module does also have two connections from the HVAC module in the cabin, which allows for independently switching of the same two relays according to refrigerant pressure.

 

I've got a sketch somewhere of the circuitry that makes up the fan control module, but I can't find it just now.  Not much to it though, 2 relays, a few passive components and that's it.  Will edit it in when I find it.  Here's a (bad) photo of the innards:

 

That is getting clearer all the time 

will get a chance to look underneath the car tomorrow I hope weather permitting 

cheers

geof

 

[rum4mo]

We are sitting on the edge of our seats out there waiting for your update, we want good news!

 

Maybe I'll be into a bit of this if reloading the late 2009 Ibiza with R134a does not sort everything, but hopefully in my case, the fan works okay at both speeds!

 

Time to go for a run in wife's August 2015 Polo to get some Gunk and run its air con so that I can use its running pressures as a bench mark for recharging the late 2009 Ibiza air con system (and check my February 2011 S4 air con while I'm at it - leak checkers/sniffers charged up and ready to go, I've not been near fridge manifold sets for two years, so here goes!

 

Edit:- wino has added some detail as to the "interconnect" between thermal switch and fan controller by the way.

Edited 28 July, 2017 by rum4mo

[mrcrow]

10 hours ago, rum4mo said:

We are sitting on the edge of our seats out there waiting for your update, we want good news!

 

Maybe I'll be into a bit of this if reloading the late 2009 Ibiza with R134a does not sort everything, but hopefully in my case, the fan works okay at both speeds!

 

Time to go for a run in wife's August 2015 Polo to get some Gunk and run its air con so that I can use its running pressures as a bench mark for recharging the late 2009 Ibiza air con system (and check my February 2011 S4 air con while I'm at it - leak checkers/sniffers charged up and ready to go, I've not been near fridge manifold sets for two years, so here goes!

 

Edit:- wino has added some detail as to the "interconnect" between thermal switch and fan controller by the way.

 

oh yes man here am de news...ya bochle!!

 

everything fine for the last two days...fan never ran at least when the car was stationary

got home today from a muggy short drive back and forth to the doctors...3 miles round trip i guess in the foggy misty rainy atmosphere...around lunch time

came back and the fan was sooooo quiet i thought i would treat myself to a milky coffee...

i was in the garage doing some work on my bathroom renovation and heard the call of the fan from far away

i opened the garage door and bless the bugger...it was singing to itself...

i discovered that this problem started and is consistent with the weather being...low flying cloud

so its not the rain its the haar getting in...

i have disconnected the battery this evening even though its a new one..i dont want the rowowowowo in the morning when i want to start up

its just a  two sec job unscrewing the terminal...the little 9mm spanner is my driving companion and is always to hand

when the bathroom is done i can think more clearly

i am tiling just now...and tomorrow its fitting the new shower cubicle, run the pipework and fit the new basin...the wc has been in from day one

final final will be sorting out some more tiling then the flooring..

after that...??

cheers

geof

[rum4mo]

Sorry for disturbing you from your proper jobs, maybe I'm under employed, I'm sure my wife can fix that!  Initially I thought that I had missed you saying what you had done to sort this out, but no, so that issue is being sneaky, not good - WIP!

I hope if you are using these modern "push to fit" water couplings that things go well, I have a friend that tends to build his own houses or converts old ones for his use, he had to rehash the upstairs bathroom as he ignored what his wife wanted it to be, that went very well but as he reused some of the old "push to fit" plastic water fittings, he might now have to buy a new carpet as it did not like getting soaked when a reused coupling failed! I don't know why he is not tilling the floor, maybe he is fed up after what has been 18 months from start to finish on this one.

Happy renovating, I'll get back to Gunking this "late 2009 Ibiza"'s AC compressor just in case it has a leak at a pipe flange, now that that car is not being used today!

[mrcrow]

I have used push fit but only new, they are handy for awkward places and where there is no chance of longitudinal movement, and should be fitted dry so that they are tight.  They cost nothing to buy considering the consequences of a leak

 

I am using solvent weld on a short waste as it's reasonably accessible and I can test it before the final joint 

 

i have now got over the trauma of waste pipework sizes since it was explained that there are only two sizes

1 1/2" and 1 1/4" nominal....but depending on your choice of fitting two different diameters of pipe for each

 

To simplify matters the third fitting..universal..is a push fit for socket weld pipe and the rogue 43 ABS pipe which is the old stuff in my bathroom... but I would class this as piping rather than plumbing..it's used in a lot of industrial applications

 

For my water supplies I now will use either copper compression or the speed fit idea

i have used the ones which will attach to copper pipe with an olive to start off..they are grey and can be reused with repai kit

[mrcrow]

On 7/28/2017 at 11:05, rum4mo said:

We are sitting on the edge of our seats out there waiting for your update, we want good news!

 

Maybe I'll be into a bit of this if reloading the late 2009 Ibiza with R134a does not sort everything, but hopefully in my case, the fan works okay at both speeds!

 

Time to go for a run in wife's August 2015 Polo to get some Gunk and run its air con so that I can use its running pressures as a bench mark for recharging the late 2009 Ibiza air con system (and check my February 2011 S4 air con while I'm at it - leak checkers/sniffers charged up and ready to go, I've not been near fridge manifold sets for two years, so here goes!

 

Edit:- wino has added some detail as to the "interconnect" between thermal switch and fan controller by the way.

 

the little darling hasnt put a foot wrong for the last few days..

been out a lot and always quiet after a run..one day it was running on a bit in a car park...i came back about an hour later and it had stopped

everything on hold till it am defo its a major fault

cheers

geof