Hi all

 

I went to look at an Octavia Scout (2011, 2.0 TDI 140bhp) this morning. Car looked generally good, but I put a fault code reader on it and it gave me a PO403 error, "EGR flow circuit malfunction". The seller seemed surprised by this, but his wife had seen a warning light come up and had had a quote to fix it. Anyway! The car drove as normal (as far as I could tell), and had no warning lights on the dash currently. Both the seller and I started googling EGR problems on Octavias, and it seems to be common and potentially expensive. Some posts on here suggest a cost of between £500 and £1600 to replace, because the valve is a bugger to get to. One post quoted the cost of the valve alone as £700 from Skoda. Seller's local garage quoted £550 odd. There's also the option of deleting the EGR - but I'm not sure if that would lead to MOT failure, increased emissions, ECU problems if not remapped etc.

 

The seller also said the car had been serviced in March of this year, but couldn't find the paperwork. I will ring the garage in question tomorrow and check. However, I looked at the oil, and it was black and gunky. (See pics attached) I've not had a diesel car before, but if the oil was changed in March (and the car has only done a few thousand miles since) shouldn't the oil still be reasonably golden and clean, not black and bitty? I could be wrong about this, perhaps the oil on a diesel may go black more quickly than a petrol? I guess diesel combustion by products are blacker than petrol... Service indicator on the car said a service was due in 15600 miles if I remember right. (It might be that the garage have claimed to have changed the oil, but actually haven't of course)

 

Anyway, what's the best option if there's an EGR problem? Walk away? Clean the EGR with Wynns or similar and see if the fault comes back? (Which it probably would) Bypass the EGR? Get it replaced by the seller or myself (with an appropriate discount on sale price - and what would an appropriate discount be? I'll ask my garage for a price to replace tomorrow, but an idea from the forum would be useful)

 

Given the EGR problem, the state of the oil and missing history I'm slightly inclined to walk away (at least until I talk to the garage that should have done the work), but Scouts are fairly few and far between... And this one is quite low mileage, reasonably modern and a nice drive. Discuss?

 

Thank you.

Fresh oil will go black almost instantly in a diesel.

Right, thanks. Different to petrols then!

 

One thing I forgot to mention - the seller had the emissions fix done earlier this year. I understand this can lead to problems, including with the egr?

That oil filler cap looks a bit odd....whats with the lumps on the seal,with that & the possible big expensive of the egr valve/cooler replacement & the lack of service history i personally would walk away from this one. 

Thanks Mikey

 

The car does have previous service history (Skoda main dealer partly) just not the recent one from march.

 

Agreed about the lumps of swarf (or whatever) on the oil cap though. And the egr problem. Hmm.

I can also confirm to you that fresh oil turns all black after only running the engine for like 1 min after the oil change... so no worries there.

 

As for the lumps on the cap - they all seem to be on the outer edge of the cap, where the valve cover meets the cap. This can be caused by dirt & oil rubbing between the cap and the valve cover? I must say though, mine doesn't look like that.

 

Not sure about the 2.0 engines made in 2011 but my 2007 BKD code has the EGR valve right in front of the engine and by the looks of it, it should be easy on and easy off, right? (maybe some other 2.0 owners can confirm?)

As others have said, the oil colour is normal. The crud around the edge makes it look like there may have been excessive muck around the cap that may have fouled the seal when the cap was last removed.

 

Pretty sure the CR140 EGR is hidden at the back of the engine so the prices you've mentioned seem correct. Possibly even more if any of the 4x4 components need to come out to allow access.

 

I'd probably walk away unless the owner is able to get that resolved. They might be able to get it done free/cheaply as I believe there is now an 2 year warranty on 'fixed' cars emissions control components.

58 minutes ago, Inex said:

I can also confirm to you that fresh oil turns all black after only running the engine for like 1 min after the oil change... so no worries there.

 

As for the lumps on the cap - they all seem to be on the outer edge of the cap, where the valve cover meets the cap. This can be caused by dirt & oil rubbing between the cap and the valve cover? I must say though, mine doesn't look like that.

 

Not sure about the 2.0 engines made in 2011 but my 2007 BKD code has the EGR valve right in front of the engine and by the looks of it, it should be easy on and easy off, right? (maybe some other 2.0 owners can confirm?)

 

Thanks Inex, surprised to see the oil so dirty so quickly. I have now spoken to the garage, and the oil and filter were changed in March as said. Hopefully the lumps are dirt rather than swarf.

I believe the newer CR 2.0TDI has the EGR in a worse location to get to. I spoke to my usual non Skoda garage and they quoted £700 odd to change it (an extra hour's labour as it's the Scout version), vs £900 ish from my local Skoda garage.

 

35 minutes ago, langers2k said:

As others have said, the oil colour is normal. The crud around the edge makes it look like there may have been excessive muck around the cap that may have fouled the seal when the cap was last removed.

 

Pretty sure the CR140 EGR is hidden at the back of the engine so the prices you've mentioned seem correct. Possibly even more if any of the 4x4 components need to come out to allow access.

 

I'd probably walk away unless the owner is able to get that resolved. They might be able to get it done free/cheaply as I believe there is now an 2 year warranty on 'fixed' cars emissions control components.

 

Thanks Langers. Hopefully it's just dirt from the engine bay, not bits from the engine!

Yep, that's what I found too, and I believe a drive shaft needs to be disconnected from the rear diff to get to the EGR. Shame, given that the EGR valves seem to be a weak point. Does anyone have experience of removing / blanking the EGR valve? Might solve the problem for the longer term, but I imagine there would be downsides such as MOT failure, ECU remapping requirements etc.

 

Does anyone have any more info on the warranty fix from Skoda for the "fixed" emission cars? From what I've seen on here, Skoda do their level best to wiggle out of any responsibility / payment for the whole emissions issue!

 

Cheers.

I have a vague feeling that VW may be doing some follow up with problems post mod    long shot but maybe worth researching

Well, I've asked my local Skoda garage. Chap wasn't aware of any help from Skoda, but he's investigating...

 

 

Edited 31 July, 20178 yr by sandspider

20 minutes ago, sandspider said:

Well, I've asked my local Skoda garage. Chap wasn't aware of any help from Skoda, but he's investigating...

 

It's on their website: http://www.skoda.co.uk/owners/dieselinfo/trust-building-measure/

So it is! Well found, thanks.

 

Alas, it seems to only apply to vehicles serviced by Skoda. Exclusions include:

 

If the owner or a non authorised service partner or dealer has not orderly repaired, serviced or cared the vehicle (e.g. by using non genuine parts etc.)

 

Painfully worded, but I imagine they'd use any excuse to wiggle out of paying.

My gut feeling,-walk away. I would not buy any VAG car affected by the emissions recall if they've had it done. Far too many horror stories on all the forums. I run a Scout and I've declined to have the 'fix' done.

Edited 29 August, 20178 yr by Blaven

Thanks, but I've bought it!

 

Not had a non-updated scout to compare it to, but it seems to work ok so far. Fuel consumption around 50mpg and it doesn't feel sluggish or anything. Touch wood. Due an mot in the next month or so then I'll see if I've bought a lemon!

Egr assy - valve and cooler bits are buried up between the 4x4 transfer box and the dpf on the CR Tdi scout, your garage must be gynaecologists just to charge a few extra £ - I'd some similar issues with mine when I put it back together, fortunately it was a loose vac pipe at the top left of the engine at fault.

 

Good luck - good car when going well!

The debris on the oil cap is normal, it was a regular occurrence on my vRS, Scout and current Superb, a quick wipe with a rag soon gets rid of it but it would always return. I'm pretty sure it is debris that collects around the cap that falls onto the seat of the filler hole when the cap is removed. I've seen dead flies and grit etc.

 

Let's be fair, you're buying a 6 year old car, there are bound to be some fault codes stored. You don't mention the mileage but EGR's don't like short / infrequent journey's (much like DPF's). If the car has been used by his wife then I'm guessing the EGr might simply be slightly coked up. All being well a good run with some hard acceleration will clear it (or bring on an earlier demise).

 

Either way when buying a older used car it is always wise to put £1,000 to one side for unexpected repairs.

 

From what you've told us about the previous owner it sounds to me like it is likely you have a 'good' un'!

Thanks chaps.

 

I cleaned the debris off the oil cap, and it doesn't seem to have come back, so I think it is mud etc. settling in the cap area. My scout does seem to be fairly muddy in the engine bay.

 

A 2011 car is new by my standards! My other car is a ragged 1986 Porsche. And the advice when I bought that was to set aside £1000 for unexpected repairs - I was hoping a car 25 years newer would need less spending on it! Ah well, MOT will tell me more. Mileage is 76,000, and I think the car was used a bit as a station car. I've taken it on some longer runs, and even my station commute is 8 miles, so not too bad I think. Seems to be behaving itself so far, touch wood! 

 

I have noticed a few things about it, though I'm not sure if they're problems or just different to what I'm used to. The radio refused to make any sound once - a bit of research suggests this is a common problem, but the sound came back and so far has been OK. The suspension seems a bit bouncy / soft - not sure if that's because I'm used to harder suspension, or if there's something amiss. I believe the shocks and springs can become tired around this sort of mileage? If I push down on a wing it doesn't keep bouncing so the shocks are damping as far as I can tell... Rear brake discs are corroded, apart from a narrow band near the hub. Again, this seems to be a common problem, I'll get my garage to look at them for the MOT.

One thing I'm not sure of it that when pulling away in first gear, especially to the right across the oncoming carriageway, the car seems to hesitate - almost as though something is catching in the brakes and holding it back. So accelerating, accelerating, steady speed / held back, then accelerating again. It might also be that this is normal, as the car has a short first gear and a TDI engine? Not had a TDI before so can't be sure... What RPM would the turbo run out of puff? I'm not revving the nuts off it, just pulling away at a reasonable speed to avoid oncoming traffic.

 

Oh, and the wipers seem quite smeary. Think I'll just replace the blades.

 

I'm sure I'll be back with more questions! Thanks for all the help.

The hesitancy can be a couple of things, the Haldex (4x4) kicking-in (i.e. diverting power to the rear wheels) or simply the shorter 1st gear you get with all 4x4 Octavia's.

 

Saying that though the issue should appear on left turn junctions too!

 

If anything the Scout gets criticism for it's over-damped front shocks so if it's feeling wallowy then new shocks might be a wise investment.

 

Is the radio a Bolero, Amundsen or Columbus? If it's the Bolero do you get an all-white screen at the same time as no sound?

Thanks Silver

 

I've only noticed it on right turns... Will pay more attention to left turns in future!

 

The radio is a Bolero. The screen stays on, displays and responds as normal, just no sound from the speakers...

The Bolero seemed to have a bad time during 2011, there are quite a few issues reported, mine was the white screen but fortunately it was picked up whilst the car was still under warranty...

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, sandspider said:

 

 

The radio is a Bolero. The screen stays on, displays and responds as normal, just no sound from the speakers...

 

Not sure if this is relevant but occasionally mine does the same but I just press the left hand radio button and the sound comes on ( even though I'm sure the volume was on when I switched the ignition off !! )

3 hours ago, silver1011 said:

The Bolero seemed to have a bad time during 2011, there are quite a few issues reported, mine was the white screen but fortunately it was picked up whilst the car was still under warranty...

 

 

 

 

Bugger. Mine hasn't white screened yet, so hopefully it's not too bad. Also mine seems to have the Skoda logo on the startup screen, so it may have been updated.

 

3 hours ago, davidwhite said:

 

Not sure if this is relevant but occasionally mine does the same but I just press the left hand radio button and the sound comes on ( even though I'm sure the volume was on when I switched the ignition off !! )

 I tried turning it off and on again! That made no difference. It sorted itself when the ignition was turned off for 5 minutes. Apparently you can also reset the radio by holding the power button down for 10 secs, so I'll try that next time...

JFI.

 

On a Bolero with no standard Bluetooth fitted if  you press the 'Phone' button it mutes the audio. The track will continue to play on the screen, just without sound. 

 

Not sure if the sound remains muted when you remove the key and restart your vehicle or if it resets.  

 

Also not sure what happens if you press the 'Phone' button on a Bolero with factory fit Bluetooth as I have an aftermarket system installed. 

It also displays a little mute icon on the top left of the screen though.

 

Mine stopped working when I turned the car off in the middle of a traffic broadcast!

9 hours ago, sandspider said:

It also displays a little mute icon on the top left of the screen though.

 

Mine stopped working when I turned the car off in the middle of a traffic broadcast!

 

Not sure but if you have or the system has auto select traffic reports ( ie it stops whatever mode it's in to allow a selected traffic report broadcast to interrupt if by turning the system off during the broadcast the radio would still be ' logged on ' to that broadcast media ?

( does that makes sense ? )