Tdi190 4x4 DSG vs XC70 D4 AWD AT

[Baverhanne]

Hi. My first post in here for over three years I believe. Lurked around here constantly when I was a proud owner of an Fabia estate 1.2tsi DSG 2011.

Sadly this car had the bad behaviour of breaking down at my birthday 3 years ago! Due to the workshop charging 550£ for a repair we felt we couldn't trust neither the car or workshop (one ignition cable had been worn and shorted against ground).

Sold the Fabia and bought a new XC70 D4 AWD AT configured as we wanted it for a lower cost than a similarly equipped Superb @ 34000 £ including VAT (at that time)

 

But now I've returned to Skoda as I ordered a company car. Spec as follows (taken from the UK site so that you guys understand what it says). Seams like they are speced differently in Sweden and GB...

Superb Estate TDI190 4x4 DSG L&K

Laser white

 

£38,640

Rear side airbags (PE2)

£285

 

Ventilated front seats (PHB)

£425

 

Heated 3 spoke leather multifunction steering wheel (PLC)

£135

 

Smart light assist with Lane assist and Blind spot detection (PNG)

£100

 

Integrated tow bar (1D4)

£765

 

Heated windscreen washer nozzles (9T1)

£50

 

Crew Protection Assistant (7W2)

£150

 

Retractable parcel shelf (3U7)

£120

 

Rear-view parking camera (KA2)

£350

 

Variable boot floor (3GN)

£150

 

Massage functionality for drivers seat (8I1)

£150

 

Partition net screen (3CX)

£150

 

 

DCC and the Webasto heater with remote also included.

Price 31700£ including VAT (after 10% discount) In Sweden that's a really good price for any car in this class!

 

But - I've driven this particular engine and it's predecessors in several different VAG cars like the Passat Alltrack, golf Alltrack, sharan, Audi A4 etc. It feels to me like the engine is weaker then stated. Compared to the Volvo (despite 400kg higher curb weight and less HP) the TDI190 deals weak!? In gear acceleration with D4 is effortless and quick with about 50% of the pedals travel used. I need all of the VAG cars I have to use almost full throttle to obtain the same amount of acceleration. From stand still the Volvo won't have a chance but in gear it feels much quicker.

 

Any thoughts about this? 

 

[FelisBengalensis]

I would agree that the EA288 190bhp does not feel as lively as I would have expected until you get it over 2,000 rpm at which point it does improve.  I am assuming that is the point that the turbo has spooled up enough to be useful.  'Off turbo' it lacks sparkle.  My 2005 BMW E46 has 204bhp and is a far better engine....although that is a 3 litre M57TUD30 lump.  The torque limit of the DSG clutch pack may be the cause of the lack lustre performance as it ought to be better in my opinion.

[Baverhanne]

It might be due to dual turbos on our XC70 and a bigger volume engine @ 2,5litre. Am I wrong to believe that the 530D (correct model?) also has twin turbos?

Tested an Amarok TDI180? and that was really really slow in all situations.

 

I must admit that all of the VAGs is more inspiring to drive. The Volvo is silent, comfortable and strong but lacks any form of feedback to driver.

Edited 9 August, 2017 by Baverhanne

[Gerrycan]

You could well be right about there being a real performance difference but if possible it is best to actually measure acceleration rates to confirm.

Human senses can easily be fooled by different throttle mapping.

 

Most dyno results show that VW products meet or exceed claimed outputs so the vehicle should not be slow, but many are only happy with driving response after the ECU has been remapped and/or throttle has been mapped.

 

[Tron]

23 hours ago, Baverhanne said:

Am I wrong to believe that the 530D (correct model?) also has twin turbos?

 

The x30 engine is twin scroll, not twin turbo, the x35 engines are twin turbo. HTH

[FelisBengalensis]

As are the 40d cars.  The 50d is a triple turbo, but all are 3.0 litre in line 6 lumps.

[fiki]

I own a 190 dsg 4x4 sportline. It is far from slow,but lacks feeling of acceleration. You will think you are doing 40 when you are actually going 60. But i must admit there is quite a lot of dead pedal travel,but above 2000 (and especially above 3000) it goes really nicely.

[Baverhanne]

You could be right @fiki.

I'm actually a driver who doesn't use all the rev range in my daily driving as I'm not in a hurry.

 

So my driving style could have crippled the feeling of the 190 and favoured the D4 Nothing weird actually since I've driven the D4 for three years now and that's a motor that gains little to none when using high revs.

 

Time will tell - last week my Superb was ready from factory. Now it's only shipping, prepping and workshop add-ons (if any?) left before it's mine

[Baverhanne]

One and a half year and 85000km into the ownership of my Superb and the feeling persists.

TDI190 DSG7 does lack all sorts of low end grunt but gains a bunch when reving.

 

Actually towed the same caravan with both cars at almost the same time and that test didn't turn out favourable for the superb.

 

Not only did it use a ****load more fuel but it couldn't decide what gear to use!? Ended up using manual mode.

When starting with 1500kg on the towbar the Volvo excells and Superb falls behind in every category except turning radius.

 

Volvo wins (for me personally)

* Soundlevel - it's like two different worlds.

* Road comfort - handles uneven road so much better

* Seats - for my body the Volvo seats are much better

* Cargo space - easier to load, might be smaller in litres but the usable space is bigger.

* Soundsystem Volvo HP Vs Canton - Volvo has a much more well balanced sound output. The squealing tweeter and lack of mids makes the Canton sound "empty".

* Ground clearance - obviously...

* Quality and feel of material - still not a single fault with the Volvo. Everything is much softer and feels better but it squeaks a little bit more then the Skoda.

* Lights - not really a fight, Volvo has bixenon with halogen high and also undipped xenon when on high. Superb uses the same bulb for both.

 

Superb

 

- more stable in high speeds thanks to 18" Vs 16" balloon tyres on the Volvo

- leather seats that are easy to clean (also ventilated)

- easy opening of boot

- keyless

- connectivity and infotainment

 

When I change car next year I'll probably go with a new Volvo as I value the comfort of it.

Remember that I'm not a fan of high speeds and quick turns...

 

 

[facet edge]

I thought the Volvo sounded good but then found out it was only diesel.

With my mileage and the government's attitude towards diesel I wouldn't buy one.

[JackySi]

7 hours ago, facet edge said:

I thought the Volvo sounded good but then found out it was only diesel.

With my mileage and the government's attitude towards diesel I wouldn't buy one.

Diesels are almost as eco as gasoline powered cars today... Diesels will be around for long time... The only issue with diesel is NOx which is not that big of an issue anymore... 
http://theconversation.com/fact-check-are-diesel-cars-really-more-polluting-than-petrol-cars-76241

P.S.: What governments are fighting for is that every car would be at least Hybrid... So cities are no longer polluted that much. 

Edited 7 July, 2019 by JackySi

[Baverhanne]

Update after two years of owning covering 100 000km.

 

Finally I've found out what made my superb noisy and gave it bad handling.

 

My car was delivered with Hankook Ventus Prime summer tyres ,- bad soundcomfort and the grip wasn't really that good (a lot of non tarmac roads). They was worn out after one season. Odd I thought but maybe it was bad quality...

Next season I asked for durable and comfortable tyres and the shop fitted Pirelli P Zero last generation super duper something. At first I just thought they were noisy but when it started to rain I understood that this was a ****ty piece of tyres for my need. They were really stable in high speed and gave a sharp steering response, but that isn't my priority at all.

 

Don't get me wrong here - both the Hankook and the Pirellis are surely good tyres for those who appreciate sharp response, stability in high speeds etc but that's just not me!

 

These tyres were also worn out after one season and then I thought to my self that I can't be such a ****ty,/aggressive driver that I would use up one set of tyres per season.. Especially as the Volvo still had its original tyres on until wife put it into a ditch and misaligned the front wheels ,(four years old at the time). Also it looked to me that the tyres was unevenly worn.

 

So booked the Superb in for an alignment and a new set of tyres.

Made extensive research this time and went for Michelin CrossClimate tyres. For Nordic countries these tyres seems to be a good choice for fall/autumn. During winter I use spiked Pirellis (in my opinion totally useless tyres compared to Nokian and Michelin).

When the shop was done they showed me that the frontalignement had been of and worn more on the outer part of tyres both sides (this I new as it was clearly visible) - The week before I had it serviced at Skoda and they didn't say anything about the tyres being uneven worn....

 

When driving to work that morning my car was totally transformed!!! The nervous behaviour was gone, the eager to never go in a straight line was gone, the noise level was so improved that it was unbelievable! Also - comfort on rough roads was improved and it doesn't bounce around as it did before (same pressure)

Sound level is almost on par with our Volvo up to 90km/h and then gets noisier, with laminated glass as in the Volvo (all windows through the cabin is laminated) it would surely have been even quieter.

 

It must have to do with the softer sidewalls and rubber mixture of the Michelin's. For me this is the perfect tyre but I guess that those who are more for "active" driving would be really disappointed..

 

I have DCC in my car and when using it in comfort it now flora's in too of everything just as other users has described it, in normal mode it is just Normal and comfortable. 

Sport mode is the mode that suffers after the change of tyres. From being really stiff when cornering with direct steering I can now feel that the tyres are too soft, it feels like they are not slipping but that they are bend sideways (don't find the correct word to describe it) Before the change you could feel that it was the car that rolled through the corner but now in lower speeds the tyres gives the same feeling... I selldom used Sport mode other then for testing and now it will never be used :) 

 

Driving in heavy rain isn't a challenge anymore, the water dispersion of the new tyres are so much better then the ones I had before.

 

Anyway - this change and alignment transformed the car for me and I would actually say that the next car also will be a Superb if the fully electric cars doesn't drop in pricing during next year..

 

 

[KeteCantek]

Nice to see your updates. I think the superb suffers from 'eco' throttle pedal. Pressing it normally doesn't do much even in my petrol 280. Do a bit more and suddenly it kicks down and goes. Not linear at all. 

 

With regards to tyres, glad it made a difference. The OEM pirellis are also very noisy in mine. Hopefully when it wears out, the replacement will give a good improvement in noise levels. 

[nicknorman]

10 hours ago, KeteCantek said:

Nice to see your updates. I think the superb suffers from 'eco' throttle pedal. Pressing it normally doesn't do much even in my petrol 280. Do a bit more and suddenly it kicks down and goes. Not linear at all. 

 

With regards to tyres, glad it made a difference. The OEM pirellis are also very noisy in mine. Hopefully when it wears out, the replacement will give a good improvement in noise levels. 

If you have a 280 without a pedal box, you are missing out! My pedal box transformed the feel and usability of the car’s power. As you say, without it, it is a bit “all nor nothing” whereas with it, the throttle response is proportional with no “dead travel”.