Yeti 2.0 tdci elegance 4x4 - "Control system for exhaust" warning light

[voxmagna]

That's what I found when I 'cleaned' our Yeti. But there's still the issue of wifey not doing the runs to complete the regen. cycles and the fans running on after parking is the tell tale sign. This never happened before the fix.

 

Something curious to say about the earlier BMM Tdi in my other car: I'm continuously monitoring regen. activity with my analogue box where I can see every unusual blip in EG temperature.  On a long cruise of 150 miles, mostly motorway, there is an elevated EG temperature every 50 miles for exactly 5 minutes. When the car is driven normally with mixed city and short distances I don't see a regen. for up to 200 miles. But when it occurs it can last 15-20 minutes. In a local driving short runs scenario I'm never going to get a complete regen. It looks as though their algorithm controls this short regen cycle when speeds are sustained, but saves up doing a full regen. for mixed stop start driving?  I think what I am seeing with the older engine is what they call 'background regenerations'.

 

When you become aware of the whole diesel regeneration issue you realise that a diesel car is not going to cope with many drivers mixed driving styles - unless they are doing regular long commutes lasting 20 minutes or more without stops.

[burntcrisps2]

Agree with you on current diesel technology. Before they fitted DPF's and all this regen stuff, diesels suited any driver type. Now its decidely limited.

I am still waiting for a case study to be done of a cgon unit fitted to an EA189 fixed diesel engine (might be October), which has the potential to keep the engine cleaner and the EGR system, so should in theory last much longer due to cleaner emissions.

Next year will almost certainly ditch one of our diesel cars and go EV route, that might be a Kia Niro EV. Will see whats available next year.

[voxmagna]

It all gets complicated for aftermarket addons: These engines are designed to go through their dpf regen cycles using more diesel fuel and dragging down mpg. In addition you've got the always on EGR function. To get the most out of any modification (including Adblue) the ECU would need a significant patch done by people who understand and have bench tested the modded engine. That can only be the manufacturer? Once the ECU gets patched it can easily get unpatched at the Stealers and you have a modded car that may not be driveable or puts up critical warnings.

 

I stopped at a service station the other day when a new BMW EV was at the fast charging point. I don't know what the state of charge was when it first got plugged in, but the display was showing 388V @110 amps. 75% charged and with 20 minutes left to finish. Do some sums on that and you can see that that kind of readiness using industrial charging won't be achieved from a house 13 Amp socket! Even on single phase 230V they probably won't let you charge at > 32 Amp. The conundrum for EV is you need lots of thick copper to get the source currents, bound to be 3 phase and it will cost you not in units used, but in having the peak current availability for a fast charge. If you are on a farm with plenty of 3 phase you will be ok for fast EV charging.

 

Now the hidden Agenda for Smart meters? Why so much enthusiasm for them? Smart meters have the ability to measure peak demand and when it occurs. In future you can look forward to energy company tariffs charging according to peak demand and limiting your maxiumum supply current according to your contract. The higher your peak demand the more expensive will be your contract. That is how they (you) are going to pay for the extra copper they need to put in the streets for EV charging when everybody gets home from their commute and wants their EV fully charged to go out later.

[Ootohere]

Those that charge their vehicles at Off Peak and have their vehicle sitting fully charged at 'Peak Demand' are then able to supply electricity into the grid / to the neighbours if they are not home at Tea Time etc.

Smart System's & Smart Storage of Electricity is what is required for the Renewable's. as the Coal Fired Generation is almost gone, and gas and oil fired is polluting like fossil fuel ICE vehicles. and the UK is a bit slow in renewing the Nuclear Power Stations and are buying in energy.

[Expatman]

1 hour ago, Offski said:

Those that charge their vehicles at Off Peak and have their vehicle sitting fully charged at 'Peak Demand' are then able to supply electricity into the grid / to the neighbours if they are not home at Tea Time etc.

Smart System's & Smart Storage of Electricity is what is required for the Renewable's. as the Coal Fired Generation is almost gone, and gas and oil fired is polluting like fossil fuel ICE vehicles. and the UK is a bit slow in renewing the Nuclear Power Stations and are buying in energy.

But you still have to supply the high current required to each home, and then multiply that by the number of homes on the circuit and the numbers become staggering. That's without considering those living in homes without a driveway or any off road facility to connect a charger to, or those living in flats, or those with 2 to 3 vehicles per household needing charging at the same time. How many people are going to be happy letting their car battery be used to power the grid at peak times and so reducing the available charge available to them when they need it, or might need it? Where is all that power coming from, certainly not reliably from wind, solar or other renewables and the huge investment required to build nuclear precludes that in the foreseeable future, so we are left with gas which is about the cheapest form of power available. Much cheaper than wind or solar if you discount the subsidies. So the only option is to use the gas beneath our feet and start fracking rather than buying it in from abroad with all the international blackmail that would leave us open to - not counting the fact as to why we should put the burden on others to source the gas we need when we have it available locally.

Or we could carry on using petrol/diesel and hybrids, thus electric for high pollution areas (town centres etc) and petrol/diesel for out of city highway use.

[Ootohere]

How much electricity do you think is required for refineries and cracking plants to produce diesel & gas.

Grangemouth has its own power station. Scotland's Nuclear plants are past the sell by dates and have extended sell by dates, and are already in dangerous conditions.  Scotland and Wales and Northern Ireland and Ireland are doing well with renewables, the UK Government need to get a shift on with England.

Maybe get some of that oil out in the South of England as well or is that there for a rainy day?

(England maybe needs to get its drinking water infrastructure sorted as well while getting the National Grid and cableing sorted. 

and be sure not to have the fracking poisoning what water there is.

 

So change will have to happen, be it slow or taking forever and a day but happen it will do.

 

Where is this cheap gas, Morcombe Bay, in the North or Irish Sea or more imports to Britain that next year leaves the EU?

 

You use a lot of gas just getting oil ashore, getting it through the Forties Pipeline that INEOS have bought to ensure the supplies to Grangemouth then gas is used to power Grangemouth Petrolchemical plant & in the Cracking Plant, & where ethane has to come from the US on the Dragon Ships,

methane coal bed extracted by fracking shale.

Soon the Fracking will happen in the North if England and we will see how attitudes change about the speed of getting the electricity infrastructure sorted out.

 

 

Edited 20 August, 2018 by Offski

[burntcrisps2]

Right a quick update on this thread.

 

Yesterday the wife was driving the Yeti and had been to Bicester, reasonable run, stayed there a while to do some shopping, returned to Banbury and stopped to do some more. On starting the car to return home it stalled and on restarting it stalled again and third restart it ran but then went into limp home mode with the MIL light on and the glow plug light flashing. So she got home and explained.

 

I thought OK probably the Throttle Valve stuck again.

I stated on here and also listed in my service schedule that I would take off the Throttle Valve yearly and clean.

I didn't have the time to do this in December (never a good time to service a car!) so thought I would do it later in 2019 as I need to replace the rear disk pads and was planning on doing together in the warmer weather.

 

So today I set to and got the pipework disconnected and using a mirror looked at the Throttle Valve.

Surprised to see it was almost as clean as when I put it back on some 14months ago.

Decided to take off anyway and check everything, removed the cover to see if the gears and motor were all good and working, which they were, so replaced throttle valve, pipework and cleared all the fault codes.

 

Reference excellent info from voxmagna here... Throttle Valve Replacement EA189 Tdi Yet4x4 @50K

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/442249-throttle-valve-replacement-ea189-tdi-yeti-4x4-50k/

 

Started engine. All working fine and test drove so its all good again.

 

Suspect the stalled engine and restarts made the stupid car throw a wobbly and an error code which put it into limp home mode.

 

The good thing is the turning the exhaust return feed round by 180 degrees most definately is working well and keeping the throttle valve clean.

Anyone reading this thread, that simple procedure is a MUST do as it will save issues later down the line.

Wish I had known about it earlier and I would have done it years ago, but then Skoda VAG should have done this as at a standard service and not me.

 

Having seen how clean the throttle valve is after 14months I doubt it needs removing yearly to clean, but will keep it on my schedule list for now and maybe do in summer months next year.

 

Took pictures of the throttle valve to show how clean it still is. Just a light film of oil which is what you expect in the recirculation system.

[voxmagna]

Glad you got a good result and the TV has stayed clean for you. There were some earlier comments about the ECU mod. causing these faults, but  IMHO these engines are probably well gummed up before the fix to now make them work correctly?

 

What I find now is the frequency of the DPF regen. with local driving virtually makes this diesel engine design with mods impractical. We now know when wifey comes home and complains the fans are staying on after parking, that a regen. has started and not finished. It has become a pain to keep the engine and dpf happy by taking it for a 20 mile drive each time to avoid more problems and dpf clog.

 

I think the dpf would complete regens for relatively short journeys if they could lower the mph whilst still getting the high temperature? We are still keeping rpm up consistently around 2k and that shouldn't be a limiting factor. I have another non-E189 earlier VAG diesel and see the dpf regens ocurring about every 200 miles and lasting up to 15 minutes. The modified Yeti seems to be similar. What's changed is my older 2007 Tdi doesn't put fans on to purge the engine bay of heat after parking and no stealer has changed the original ECU code, whereas the 2012 Yeti does. I don't know if this came along with the Yeti ECU mods or not, but I don't remember it happening when we first bought the car? My theory is all these VAG diesels have been attempting regens which were often partial and incomplete, leading to the many posts on the internet of soot and clogging.  If VW had provided a cockpit indicator for dpf regen, then I suspect few would have bought  their diesel cars. We have been hoodwinked!

 

After declogging the TVA we now keep the revs up and try to complete any partial regens driving to a supermarket a bit further away.

 

 

+

[voxmagna]

What I didn't say was my new approach to oil changes: When I was doing higher annual mileage I was using Long Life fully synthetic oils to reduce service downtime and costs. Now my annual mileage is much lower and I've switched back to standard life V.W approved oils (for dpf engines) changing oil at 6-8k. Whatever carbon deposits etc engine oils hold can get burned and end up being recirculated or passed through the dpf. The problem gets worse as engines wear. When we hear about dpf life of 100k miles, I don't think it's the actual dpf but the engine deteriation and oil burn that determines that figure, although city driving and incomplete regeneration will soon bring on failure due to clogging.

 

When cars first got diesel engines pre-dpf, I remember my engine oil being changed every 3.5-4k miles with oil and fllter at 7-8k miles. I'm going back towards that now for these other reasons, even though oil technology and engine design has been improved.

[PipH]

" Yesterday the wife was driving the Yeti and had been to Bicester, reasonable run, stayed there a while to do some shopping, returned to Banbury and stopped to do some more. On starting the car to return home it stalled and on restarting it stalled again and third restart it ran but then went into limp home mode with the MIL light on and the glow plug light flashing. So she got home and explained. "

 

My son had exactly the same happen on his Tiguan a couple of weeks ago, same engine, except that his wouldn't re-start.

 

He called out the AA who diagnosed a stuck open EGR valve.

 

Obviously AA man was not going to change it, but he gave the EGR a couple of whacks with a hammer & the car started ok.

 

It has run ok since, but was booked in to VW today for them to look at it under their " Trust Building Measure " to see if they will change it FOC, as it has previously had the " FIX ".

 

So think you probably have the ticking timebomb of a dodgy EGR valve too.

 

By the way, I had also ge-gunged his throttle valve last year after an EGR fault message.

I think that was a precursor of this failing EGR valve then, & nothing to do with the throttle valve but can't prove it of course.

 

 

[burntcrisps2]

Well I am of the mind that the EGR is probably the real culprit as nothing looked wrong with TV, but can’t prove that at present. Fault code was same as original which points to TV, but error codes don’t really prove much sometimes. Will have to see how it goes over next month or so.

It’s a shame the egr is not easily accessible as I would remove connecting pipework and use some egr3 cleaner to blast the main amount of crud off it like I have done on other brands, Ford Focus and Renault Clio. That’s one of the reasons I wanted to get a cgon hydrogen fuel cell fitted to the yeti as if it truly gives a more complete burn there would be less crud going round the egr circuit. Cgon went bust and have resurfaced/ been bought by another outfit... atmos-clear, but that route may never happen as I was always waiting for a case study of an ea189 fixed vehicle to be done, to prove suitability.

 

If egr does fail then will have to see if VW honour their commitment to resolve foc, but that window closes end of 2019 for the yeti, so kinda hope it fails during this year or just keeps going till we swap the yeti for an EV in a couple of years time. That may even be a Skoda e-vision! If we can stomach going with vag again that is.

Yeti gets new oil and oil filter every year as mileage is only circa 6 to 8k max. And has done since new so trust that helps as per voxmagna comments.

 

piph, trust you get yours done foc, please let us know if you do.

[jimjill]

Slightly off topic, but is the EA 189 (the fix) reversible? 

[Llanigraham]

There are several here who have reported that they have had it "over written"

 

[voxmagna]

1 hour ago, jimjill said:

Slightly off topic, but is the EA 189 (the fix) reversible? 

 

IMHO Yes. Ideally you would have had a map file from your ECU read before taking it to the V.W stealer. Not so ideal but still doable, there are 'vanilla' generic files for your factory VIN still available on chip tuners databases and elsewhere. These have to be 'customised' with your ECU personality - VIN, Odo mileage, Immo etc. Talk to chip tuners. You either take your car to them, or send off your ECU by post. Remember, if the car goes to a VW stealer it is likely they will reflash back to EA 189 fix. The smart move may be to consider a Stage 1 tune on a generic ECU file with your ECU personality data transferred. But be careful having a tune done AFTER the EA189A mod. unless your tuner can confirm their files have been dyno checked. Most of the ready made tuning files out there were based on pre-moded engines. Talk to Alientech, they are experts selling tuning kit with online support for tuning files.

[voxmagna]

38 minutes ago, Llanigraham said:

There are several here who have reported that they have had it "over written"

 

You can get most things 'overwritten' and I can even think of ways to fool the dash warning lights without removing the lamps. The problem with diesels comes afterwards when the expensive dpf becomes clogged and useless then needs replacing, or your exhaust spews out smoke at mot and your mot tester will not under new rules release your car back to you to drive home. The same thing will happen if they spot a dpf removal or non OE approved HID conversions - so watch out!

[voxmagna]

On the topic of EGR faults and keeping the emissions system and flap valve clean, I scanned Yeti Tdi with vcds to lower the service mileage and time limits from 2 years (for Longlife Oils) back down to maximum of 10k miles and 1 year. I posted earlier, if you are a low mileage driver, keeping oil clean by changing it more often is better than the benefit of using Long Life oil.

 

I've always found SRI reset using vcds a bit quirky and this time after a reset I spotted 'poor oil quality' still present after reset and changing oil 3k ago. I once thought V.W might be clever and use an IR or light beam sensor to test for dirty oil. Now I believe they just estimate oil quality based on usage - stop starts, distance driven, speeds, time and dpf regen cycles. Since wifey keeps hitting the fans on after parking and partial dpf regen. scenario, I thought resetting this poor oil flag could be useful. Shame they don't put it in the MFD!

 

After a lot of hunting about I eventually found the good oil/bad oil option in section 17 combi instruments as an adaptation setting. It's probably something vcds should have reset in the SRI section?

[idleness]

4 hours ago, jimjill said:

Slightly off topic, but is the EA 189 (the fix) reversible? 

Yes no problem.

I had mine reversed by UNIT18 in Milton Keynes. Noticed the difference as I drove off.

Since then I have had it remapped but I have an OBD device that allows me to replace the original map if it ever goes to a dealer, which it wont, and then I can remap it afterwards.

When the remap was done I downloaded the original map to the device, e-mailed it to Shark who e-mailed back the remap which I then uploaded to the car.

No need on mine to send the ECU off.

Edited 20 March, 2019 by idleness

[PipH]

" piph, trust you get yours done foc, please let us know if you do. "

 

It was my son's car.

 

His wife took it into VW on Monday, but because the AA had cleared the fault & it hadn't re-occured, they said nothing they would do.

 

Would have thought there would have been a telltale left in the ECU memory.

 

So have to wait for it to fail again & get stranded somewhere, or possibly fit one of these.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182280237422?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

 

 

Edited 24 March, 2019 by PipH

[voxmagna]

................His wife took it into VW on Monday, but because the AA had cleared the fault & it hadn't re-occured, they said nothing they would do. ......

 

That's the problem with these type of faults: The electronic management system sees values from the EGR flap position it doesn't understand and sets the fault code. But the flap valve is mechanically linked to an electronic position sensor and motor. Therefore any obstruction could stop it falling back to the stop which the ECU checks during key on initialization.  IMHO these random faults rarely go away, the error codes let you know something isn't right then the same problem usually comes back more often.

 

Although cleaners seem an easy thing to do, I don't think they will give the same permanent result as a physical removal and clean?  Unfortunately, if you asked a dealer to remove the EGR components and clean everything, they would probably replace the EGR valve rather than spend time cleaning it. Not sure if they would thoroughly clean the pipes and manifolds? With your fault showing up and the uncertainty of it coming back, I'd be tempted to shop around for an independent prepared to do a thorough clean. Perhaps garage techs these days just wear blue overalls, change parts for new, don't get themselves dirty and worry about carcinogens?

 

 

[burntcrisps2]

On 24/03/2019 at 13:57, PipH said:

" piph, trust you get yours done foc, please let us know if you do. "

 

It was my son's car.

 

His wife took it into VW on Monday, but because the AA had cleared the fault & it hadn't re-occured, they said nothing they would do.

 

Would have thought there would have been a telltale left in the ECU memory.

 

So have to wait for it to fail again & get stranded somewhere, or possibly fit one of these.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/182280237422?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

 

 

Thats a bummer for sure, but definately one of the problems with fault codes as once cleared there is no history log archived anywhere to my knowledge.

 

Not sure that egr cheat device is street legal and suspect it isnt looking at ebay wording! but then maybe it is?

However it is indeed interesting to see something exists.

 

I might have a go at running some Wynn’s Diesel EGR Extreme Cleaner through the engine if I get the same issue again.

Not anywhere near the same as removing and cleaning manually but might get the worst of the crud off and give a bit more life to the egr system.

[ejstubbs]

1 hour ago, burntcrisps2 said:

Not sure that egr cheat device is street legal and suspect it isnt looking at ebay wording!

 

The time-honoured "For use outside public roads and in motor sport" formulation is the giveaway.

 

I suspect one's insurers might take a dim view as well, given the opportunity.

[voxmagna]

Just to add my 10 cents:  Car internal combustion engines are still simple in how they work, but modern engines with their emissions and electronic controls are extremely complex. The ECU is designed to work with all parts as a system in balance and harmony. Yes, you can remove or stop a part working, but in my view you will imbalance the original design of operation that was achieved by highly paid specialists who know a lot more than most on this forum? So why would you take as credible, the reply from somebody without specialized knowledge (or an auction listing) who knows nothing about the impact of changes to your engine design and running that something is good to do? I've not mentioned the legality because it's up to individual choice. But just to say, rules, requirements and tests are always changing and you need to think how easy or expensive it would be to go back? Those that went to their tuning 'dentist'  for EGR delete and DPF remove along with custom software patches (now complicated by dealer recalls) are those whose cars will puff out the black particles during a UK MOT and under new rules, will not be able to drive their cars home.

 

If you are an experienced chip tuner and know more than just how to replace the binary in an ECU, you will know that making any hardware or software modifications, changes the relationship to other engine parts. This is why a good chip tune done by experts and properly tested, costs more than a tuning file made by somebody in their bedroom! For the future with speed limited cars, they will be boring to drive, which will promote electric vehicles (as they probably planned), insurance companies will lobby for these changes as in their best interests but won't be lowering premiums and Clarksons programs may be a thing of the past.

[Stewart1701]

I’ve had this same issue the fault comes up as Control System Exhaust, vehicle does not go into limp mode or seems to give any problem at all it a 59 Yeti 4x4 Cr 170. 
Fault occurred believe it or not after going through a large flooded puddle at 15mph no option as oncoming cars coming across my side trying to avoid flood on their side only mine had massive drop in pot hole that jarred the whole car with an overloud bang. 
upshot was two days later went and saw that hole was ironically by a drain grating where drain was blocked and dropped 6inches with square edges and out about 18 inches. New tyre re tracking etc.

The warning light came on immediately and my local Garage checked the code but advised no issue with machanics so likely a damaged sensor, what I want to know is where is this on a TDI 2l and is it easy to replace myself. Vehicle still cruises nicely has bags of energy but strangely shows better economy which is weird, not that it was mean before. 
 

Any advice or photos are welcome on this as it just seems odd and I would worry that on a longer journey it might go to limp mode. To much tech in modern cars me thinks.