Heaviest towable caravan

[MrsLine]

What is the heaviest caravan anyone has 'dared' to tow with the 190 DSG? Looking to upgrade our current caravan, but not sure how heavy to go lol

[Ootohere]

Welcome,

which spec of Kodiak is it and what does your Max Braked Towing weight show, 2,000, 2,200 or 2,300kg ?

[MrsLine]

It's the 190 Edition auto, and I believe 2.2 tonnes (so it says on the V5). 

Plate says car weighs 2.5t, so I'm assuming a 1900kg fully laden twin axle 'should' be ok. But we all know what assuming does! I'm 

[davebakerpurton]

Try this site for information, put in your car and the caravan you would like, and it will give an opinion on the suitability of the combination.

https://towcar.info/GB/

[DaveMiller]

It's important to be careful about the different kinds of weight, here.

 

The figure of 2200 or 2300 kg quoted as the maximum towed weight is the maximum that the car can physically stand - it will still be able to brake OK and won't fall apart.  That might be relevant if you're towing something small and heavy, like a generator.

 

A caravan has other things to take into account, though: it will catch sidewinds and pressure waves from passing vehicles, and the long length will have a "leverage" effect on the back of the car.  You want the car controlling the caravan, and not vice versa.  For that reason, the Caravan and Motorhome Club recommend that you never have the caravan weighing more than 85% of the car's kerb weight.  That's the weight empty, plus fuel and driver. NOT the gross weight of the car, or "Maximum Authorised Mass", which appears on the plate.

 

So, assuming the Kodiaq is an Edition 4x4 diesel 190, the kerb weight is quoted as around 1800 kg (it'll depend on what extras are specced).

And 85% of that is 1530 kg.  And remember that that's the loaded weight of the caravan!

[davebakerpurton]

Caravan & Motorhome club, tow car of the year

https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/whats-on/awards/towcar-of-the-year/winners/?awc=6934_1506367759_07214e25ccf5f48954ecd22a100cafe9&utm_source=affiliatewindow&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=awinsummer2017

[H1UBS]

Do you have a 5 or 7 seater. The 190 7 seater has a max nose weight of 80kg and Max Towing mass of 2300kg. The 5 seater has a max nose of 100kg and Max Tow of 2500kg. Whilst the gross vehicle weight sounds reasonable at around 2.3 the actual kerb weight with driver is down around 1800kg. It's really all in the loading of car and caravan. If the car is loaded to 2300kg with passengers and luggage then should (at the 85% rule) be safe to tow a fully laden van at 1950kg.

I'm towing a 1500kg Compass Rallye with my 190 5 Seater .. well within the recommended limits and it's well worthy of all the plaudits. No surprise to me seeing it as Tow Car of the Year 2018 ! ( In fact I wish I'd put money on it winning ! )

[olderman1]

If the car is loaded to 2300kg with passengers and luggage then should (at the 85% rule) be safe to tow a fully laden van at 1950kg.

 

This is incorrect. Loading a car with passengers and luggage does not increase the weight that you're allowed to tow behind it, The weight that you're allowed to tow is based on the unladen weight of the car, so in your case, the car is less than 1800 kgs. If you use the CC recommendation of 85%, then your van is almost overweight. and if you're putting extra kit in the van and you take it  above 1530kgs approx., then you are overweight, although not illegally.

It is illegal however for the vehicle being towed to weigh more than the unladen weight of the vehicle towing it.

[DaveMiller]

I agree with the first part of that answer - but "It is illegal however for the vehicle being towed to weigh more than the unladen weight of the vehicle towing it"?  Where is that from?   I just input my licence details on the government website and was told simply that I may tow trailers up to 3,500kg MAM (trailer weight, not train weight).  No mention of the "lighter than" ruling.

[Yogi-Bear]

53 minutes ago, DaveMiller said:

I just input my licence details on the government website and was told simply that I may tow trailers up to 3,500kg MAM (trailer weight, not train weight).  No mention of the "lighter than" ruling.

 

Yes, provided you have a suitable vehicle to tow that weight with. A Kodiaq is most definitely not a suitable vehicle for towing that sort of weight.

[olderman1]

I started caravanning in 2013. and it was the reputable dealer I bought my first van from who told me that. Because you've now questioned it, I've had a quick look online, and it would appear that their advice was wrong, although probably not misguided.

Having said that, I did a quick search on my phone and found a site ; www.freedomtogo.co.uk/towing that states, and I can't replicate this on my laptop - so can't copy and paste it here; "If the mass of the caravan is 85% or less of the car's kerbweight, it will tow with ease. If it's between 85% and 100%, be careful - only experienced caravanners should use that car to tow such a heavy caravan. But if the caravan is heavier than the car, that car must not be used as a towing vehicle."

The reason I posted on this thread, was because it would seem to me that many people are very blasé about how they tow, as demonstrated by H1UBS above, and I've seen many units on the road or at sites that are so obviously mismatched, that it's apparent they'd be a danger on the road.

It's each to his own I suppose, and I really don't care if those people injure or kill themselves because they have no common sense. What does worry me, is if they cause death or injury to an innocent bystander, or even worse, me and mine !

[lowedb]

What is technically legal, and what is sensible are not necessarily the same thing. 85% is a useful guideline but it is not the law. There are many, many things that come into play, including the fact that very few realise how little payload modern 'vans have and consequently overload them. Also in some circumstances, the actual weight is irrelevant, but the maximum permitted weight. By this I mean that the weight of a 'van you can tow doesn't depend on the actual weight, but the MTPLM, unless of course you overload it and go above the MTPLM.

 

EDIT: MTPLM is Maximum Technically Permissible Laden Mass

Edited 12 October, 2018 by lowedb

[DaveMiller]

The “trailer must be lighter than the towing vehicle” requirement did ring some bells with me, so I’ve been having a look.

 

As far as I can see, there is such a requirement, for those who hold a Class B licence (as opposed to a Class B+E licence).  These will typically be those who passed their driving test after 1.1.1997.  I found the same details in a few places, but in simple English here: https://www.commercialfleet.org/fleet-management/towing-the-line-a-guide-to-the-law-governing-the-towing-of-trailers-by-vehicles-up-to-35-tonnes/55087/

 

 

[Izzybear]

Hello

I tow a Bailey Pegasus 534, it is nearly 24ft but the Kodiaq 190 (seven seater) tows it very well. The only bug bear is the 80kg noseweight, trying to achieve that without adding extra weight to the back is hard to achieve. It all depends on the best van layout for you and how many you have to accommodate. Go round a dealers and have a good look inside and out and see which van is best for you, then ask dealer if it is OK for the Kodiaq-they have all the details for towing vehicles matched up to the specific van.

Hope that helps.

 

 

[Lendanear]

On 14/10/2018 at 02:39, Izzybear said:

Hello

I tow a Bailey Pegasus 534, it is nearly 24ft but the Kodiaq 190 (seven seater) tows it very well. The only bug bear is the 80kg noseweight, trying to achieve that without adding extra weight to the back is hard to achieve. It all depends on the best van layout for you and how many you have to accommodate. Go round a dealers and have a good look inside and out and see which van is best for you, then ask dealer if it is OK for the Kodiaq-they have all the details for towing vehicles matched up to the specific van.

Hope that helps.

 

 

I’m in Australia and the 80kg ball weight is a huge bugbare. It basically means we can’t tow much beyond a reasonable sized boat or a campervan. Certainly couldn’t tow a 24foot van. Nothing near. 

[Gerrycan]

16 hours ago, Lendanear said:

I’m in Australia and the 80kg ball weight is a huge bugbare. It basically means we can’t tow much beyond a reasonable sized boat or a campervan. Certainly couldn’t tow a 24foot van. Nothing near. 

Australian built caravans adopt the USA standards of nose weight being 10% of caravan weight (eg 2000kg caravan would have 200kg nose weight).

You can get European spec caravans in Aus but they are relatively expensive and certainly have no off road capability.

 

The, newly released in Australia, Tiguan 7 seat Allspace is built in Mexico and caters for USA ball weights. I believe the diesel versions can pull 2500kg and have 250kg ball load capacity. I have no idea if the European versions are the same though.

[Lendanear]

Yes, Australia uses the US 10% formula! But it’s a bit more complicated than that from what I understand. There are other more complex formulae at play meaning that the Kodiaq can’t pull anything near it’s 2000kg allowable weight legally given its 80kg limit. 

[silver1011]

What is behind the relatively low ball weight on the Kodiaq? Is it directly related to the weight of the vehicle (which compared to other 7-seat SUV's is low) or the strength of the chassis / tow bar?

 

What would be the risks of exceeding the ball nose weight? Is it around damaging the vehicle chassis / tow bar?

 

 

Edited 1 July, 2019 by silver1011

[olderman1]

Whilst the Kodiaq would appear to be a relatively large vehicle, in towing terms it's not that heavy a vehicle, especially when compared to some Land/Range Rover products and other large 4WD vehicles and pickups.

It's also not that robust in towing terms compared to other vehicles. It's basically a saloon car on stilts rather than a purpose built off roader, and that's the reason that it has a lower nose weight limit than many other vehicles.

The reason the noseweight limit is lower on the 7 seater is due to the extra weight of the third row of seats at the rear of the car. Putting that extra weight in the rear of the car has a similar effect to putting too much weight in the front of the caravan. If the noseweight limit is exceeded, it acts to push down the rear of the car and raise the nose of the car, thereby making the combination unstable, and in some circumstances can make the front wheels scrabble for grip, a phenomena I've experienced when towing with a Superb estate. Whilst the combination of the Superb and the caravan I was towing was perfectly legal on paper, if items you take with you when towing are not apportioned correctly in both the car and the caravan, you can end up with a potentially dangerous combination on the road.

This is something that many caravanners don't know or care about when they chuck the kitchen sink in their car or caravan.

You might ask why passengers in the third row of seats don't seem to be taken into account when it comes to noseweights, but I'm pretty sure that manufactures have already done that when calculating their noseweights.

There might be other reasons for calculating max noseweights that I'm unaware of, but what I've written is the crux of it.

[silver1011]

Thanks olderman1, that might suggest it is less about chassis  / tow bar strength, and more about the driving dynamics / stability etc?

 

Now the Kodiaq is more common, and as we're very much entering caravaning season, the number of Kodiaq's I've seen towing caravans has increased, and one observation I've noticed is that none of them appear to be sat low over the rear suspension, they look noticeably level. That might be due to sensible loading / weight distribution by the owners, but it does at least offer some reassurances that the Kodiaq is a capable tow car, but the relatively low ball weight does make it more of a challenge finding a suitable caravan.

 

Edited 1 July, 2019 by silver1011

[MrTrilby]

It will also be down to the max permissible load on the rear axle - exceed the nose weight and you increase the mass sitting on the rear axle - increasing the forces that you’re asking the axle and suspension components to cope with. 

 

It seems likely that it will also be down to how much vertical load the tow bar mounting can cope with. 

[silver1011]

I've seen a 2013 Swift Conqueror 530 (4 berth) near to us that fits the bill in terms of price and spec.

 

The problem (I think) I have is the 'outfit matching'. The Swift is relatively heavy with an MTPLM of 1,670kg.

 

My Kodiaq has a 'Minimum Kerbweight (with driver)' of 1,658 - 1,793kg. This puts me firmly at the 100% mark instead of the recommended 85% (car to caravan weight ratio). Does this mean the Swift is going to be an unwise choice?

 

How do I know the exact kerbweight of my Kodiaq. I'm assuming the variance they give is to factor in the possible factory options that add weight? If my Kodiaq is closer to the top of the kerbweight scale i.e. closer to 1,793 than to 1,658 this would help. As well as transporting the gas bottles, awning and leisure battery etc. in the car?

 

Given that the plated MTPLM never changes, regardless of whether the actual weight at the time is lower, anything over 100% is still illegal?

[Kenny R]

There is a sticker at the bottom of the drivers b pillar.

 

[DaveMiller]

3 hours ago, Kenny R said:

There is a sticker at the bottom of the drivers b pillar.

 

There is indeed - but it doesn’t tell you the kerb weight.

[Kenny R]

No but it does give you vehicle gross weight and maximum weight of vehicle and trailer, If you take vehicle weight away from combo weight you should get maximum tow weight, 2000kg in my case.

 

https://ntta.co.uk/law/law/towing-capacity

Edited 12 July, 2019 by Kenny R