Bigger/better front brakes

[Catzeye]

Hi all, any help on this appreciated, had my octy vrs tdi cr 170 about a year and a half now and have come to the decision that that brakes just are not up to scratch, I mean there fine for just pottering about and for the wife when shes using it but have noticed when I do a bit of spirited driving not even for long periods, even just after a few hard braking periods I'm getting brake fade, I did originally think this was down to the front discs and pads been worn and also the rear discs being corroded, since then I have fitted OEM rear pads and discs (bosch)  and on the front I have installed mintex discs and girling pads which IMO are a decent enough make, I've let them wear in nicely and decided to give the car a bit of a poke down a back road on the way home from work, again nothing monumental fast or anything, just a spirited drive and again I've experienced brake fade after just a couple of hard brakes! IMO opinion the standard sized brakes on the vrs just are not up to the job seeing although the car has a decent turn of speed and handles well, ive heard that people fit brakes from either a audi a3 3.2 v6  or a audi ttrs or audi s3 ect, what I would like to know is if I was to choose to upgrade to either of them 3 set ups I've just mentioned ,what would be involved exactly, by that I mean would I need discs, calipers, caliper holder or just discs and calipers? I would imagine the easiest and cheapest route would be to fit the brakes from an a3 3.2 v6. If I was to go this route what year a3 would I need to source the brakes from? My car is a 62 plate so is based on the mk 6 golf gti setup is this correct? Thanks for any help in advance and sorry for long winded explanation but hopefully the people in the know will understand, thanks again

[Black vRS Oct]

I find the standard brakes fine on my petrol TSI, but I suppose the Cr has a heavier front end with the diesel lump. Are you happy that there isn't a problem with them or the fluid doesn't need changing? If the fluid hasn't been changed since 2012 you might be boiling it causing the feeling of fade.

[brad1.8T]

Mate.  Punctuation.  Reading that did my head in.

 

Assuming the brake fluid isn't boiling  and it's fresh DOT5.1 (<18m old if you tend to drive a bit quick) then I'd be thinking the Girling pads aren't up to the job.  You probably need something a bit more performance focused. Do you know what type of temperature they can handle?

 

Possibly a QFM A1RM (they are rated up to 780c) or ATE Ceramic similar light track pad (there are heaps out there) but I can understand you not wanting to throw money at it as an experiment.

 

Otherwise, Golf R / Audi S3 bolt straight on (caliper + Carrier + rotor) but they will add weight as well.  I'm not a huge fan.

 

You might try chasing up the "not so BBK" that uses 312mm rotors and Porsche rear calipers with a custom machined bracket.

 

Also, Audi TTRS brake air guides will bolt on to the lower control arm with slight modifications.

[Catzeye]

On 23/11/2017 at 16:48, Tilt said:

I would recommend both of these and you will have spares too. the W5W's make for reasonably bright side lights, too.

And the 42mm fit the doors lovely.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CAR-SIDE-LIGHT-BULBS-CANBUS-ERROR-FREE-T10-501W5W-8-SMD-LED-XENON-WHITE-ICE-BLUE/161629831750?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=460904573729&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6x-42mm-4SMD-LED-264-C10W-CANBUS-NO-ERROR-FREE-WHITE-INTERIOR-LIGHT-FESTOON-BULB/191999913931?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649

Yeah I'm pretty happy there is nothing wrong with the brakes as like I say, I've replaced front pads and discs and rear pads and discs and also the fluid was changed about 8 month ago as I had a leaking rear caliper, your probs right about the derv having a heavier front end, may I ask what pads and discs you are running? Like I say for the most part the brakes are OK but a few hard stops and I get brake fade

[Catzeye]

On 28/11/2017 at 04:17, brad1.8T said:

Mate.  Punctuation.  Reading that did my head in.

 

Assuming the brake fluid isn't boiling  and it's fresh DOT5.1 (<18m old if you tend to drive a bit quick) then I'd be thinking the Girling pads aren't up to the job.  You probably need something a bit more performance focused. Do you know what type of temperature they can handle?

 

Possibly a QFM A1RM (they are rated up to 780c) or ATE Ceramic similar light track pad (there are heaps out there) but I can understand you not wanting to throw money at it as an experiment.

 

Otherwise, Golf R / Audi S3 bolt straight on (caliper + Carrier + rotor) but they will add weight as well.  I'm not a huge fan.

 

You might try chasing up the "not so BBK" that uses 312mm rotors and Porsche rear calipers with a custom machined bracket.

 

Also, Audi TTRS brake air guides will bolt on to the lower control arm with slight modifications.

Sorry for the bad punctuation Brad, I'm thinking the girling pads also rnt up to scratch but to be honest before I put them in I also experienced brake fade with whatever was in beforehand, I bought the car with what ever was in, I think I will try some performance related pads in it next as that's going to be cheaper then a full front brake conversion, just out of interest, would I need to change the brake lines to the calipers if I was to go the r32 setup route and also what are the implications of having heavier front brakes?

[Black vRS Oct]

I use brembo discs & pads, purchased from ECP, not the lightest but good quality. I have never experienced fade during spirited driving. I think your pads are junk or you have a problem somewhere, was the rear caliper changed and who bled the system? I gravity bleed just to avoid stressing it with pedal pumping, one man pressure kits can also cause problems if you run too much pressure,which I hear can cause issues with the seals inside

Edited 29 November, 2017 by Black vRS Oct

[Catzeye]

3 hours ago, Black vRS Oct said:

I use brembo discs & pads, purchased from ECP, not the lightest but good quality. I have never experienced fade during spirited driving. I think your pads are junk or you have a problem somewhere, was the rear caliper changed and who bled the system? I gravity bleed just to avoid stressing it with pedal pumping, one man pressure kits can also cause problems if you run too much pressure,which I hear can cause issues with the seals inside

Garage who done the rear caliper bled the brakes and then me and a mechanical minded Freund bled them again for peace of mind as I don't trust garages, I'm thinking my pads are crap too although like I said the set what was in before I changed them done the same thing but they too could have been finish, think ill try some decent spec pads next time and see how I get on, if you don't mind me asking how much did you pay for your brembo discs & pads 

[Ju1ian1001]

17 hours ago, Catzeye said:

Garage who done the rear caliper bled the brakes and then me and a mechanical minded Freund bled them again for peace of mind as I don't trust garages, I'm thinking my pads are crap too although like I said the set what was in before I changed them done the same thing but they too could have been finish, think ill try some decent spec pads next time and see how I get on, if you don't mind me asking how much did you pay for your brembo discs & pads 

Pagid or brembo pads and discs are pretty decent quality wise and resist heat and brake fade pretty well, or fit a set of EBC green stuff pads all round, as the are made for fastroad and light track work, the work well when cold but get a bit of heat into them and they brilliant for what you need.

 

Even on my 1.8TSi the standard bosch pads fitted weren't good so have been swapped for Pagid and the brakes are so much better, shame as the brakes were brand new when i bought the car.

Edited 30 November, 2017 by Ju1ian1001

[Black vRS Oct]

I think brembo discs and pads (front) were about £117 after some discount from ecp

[Catzeye]

6 hours ago, Ju1ian1001 said:

Pagid or brembo pads and discs are pretty decent quality wise and resist heat and brake fade pretty well, or fit a set of EBC green stuff pads all round, as the are made for fastroad and light track work, the work well when cold but get a bit of heat into them and they brilliant for what you need.

 

Even on my 1.8TSi the standard bosch pads fitted weren't good so have been swapped for Pagid and the brakes are so much better, shame as the brakes were brand new when i bought the car.

Ok cheers , guna try some fast road pads or light track pads when these have worn down, it's nothing serious but just want to be safe in the knowledge that when I do get a bit of a spurt on the cars not guna get brake fad straight away

[brad1.8T]

On 11/30/2017 at 04:05, Catzeye said:

Sorry for the bad punctuation Brad, I'm thinking the girling pads also rnt up to scratch but to be honest before I put them in I also experienced brake fade with whatever was in beforehand, I bought the car with what ever was in, I think I will try some performance related pads in it next as that's going to be cheaper then a full front brake conversion, just out of interest, would I need to change the brake lines to the calipers if I was to go the r32 setup route and also what are the implications of having heavier front brakes?

Brake lines should be OK.

 

Heavier brakes means more unsprung weight.  This makes the suspension work harder and reduces performance (1kg on the wheels is supposedly equal to 4kg of sprung weight).

 

Something to keep in mind if you go to bigger  than 312mm is that your 16" spare may not fit.

[Catzeye]

15 hours ago, brad1.8T said:

Brake lines should be OK.

 

Heavier brakes means more unsprung weight.  This makes the suspension work harder and reduces performance (1kg on the wheels is supposedly equal to 4kg of sprung weight).

 

Something to keep in mind if you go to bigger  than 312mm is that your 16" spare may not fit.

Hmmm, yeah good point, this ill try decent set of pads next m8, cheers for info 

[FatblokeVRS]

Pagid disks and pads all round on my CR. They have been fine.

 

Have heard Ferodo DS2500 pads are pretty good but not tried them.

[Wayne Kerr]

On ‎29‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 17:05, Catzeye said:

Sorry for the bad punctuation Brad, I'm thinking the girling pads also rnt up to scratch but to be honest before I put them in I also experienced brake fade with whatever was in beforehand, I bought the car with what ever was in, I think I will try some performance related pads in it next as that's going to be cheaper then a full front brake conversion, just out of interest, would I need to change the brake lines to the calipers if I was to go the r32 setup route and also what are the implications of having heavier front brakes?

I would recommend using spell check first, then try a full stop (.) or two & the occasional (,,) !