Starting trouble on cold mornings or long intervals PLus AFS issue

[[email protected]]

Hi Folks

 

I am facing some weird issues on my car Skoda Superb TDI 2.0 elegance.

 

Issue 1

 

Every morning i try to start the car it does not start in one crank. I have to crank it up a second time. In the winters or cold mornings (temp below 23 degree Celsius), i have to crank it multiple times. Each time the cranking motors starts but the engine does not catch/start. And when it finally does start there is a lot of smoke from the exhaust. So took the car to the SKODA workshop. They kept the car for a week and finally said that they would have to change all the components of the fuel line and it would cost about INR 400,000 (that almost GBP 4700). So then took the car to a Bosch multi car workshop for a second opinion. They also kept the car for a week and finally concluded that nothing was wrong with the car and since the error occurs only once in the morning there did not have enough time to diagnose it. Their suggestion was to live with it till it got worse and then they would be able to diagnose. And so i have been living with it for the past 8 months. No problem otherwise, but every morning i have to crank up multiple time to get the car started. Later on in the day no issues and the car starts in one start. Sometimes same issue repeated in the evening when i am coming back from office and the car is off for the entire day. For some reason cold weather aggravates the problem. 

 

But now its getting irritating and would like to get it fixed, but i have no intention to spend the kind of money Skoda workshop wants me to spend to fix this problem.

 

Issue 2

When i unlock the car using my remote, my headlights come on and the AFS system does the headlight dance where it moves to the two sides and then comes back to the center. This also happens when you start the car. But twice now in the evening when i am returning from office, when i unlock using the remote the headlight does not come on and the AFS system does not do the dance. When i start the car after that, the headlights come on, but the AFS system is not functional and within a few minutes the AFS not functional error comes on the screen. Now if i switch off the car and restart it everything is back to normal and the AFS behaves the way it is supposed to and the error goes away.

 

What could be causing this, is some component failing? how can i check?

 

The battery is about a year and half old and is fine when i checked it a battery shop.

[jafo]

Do you mean MINUS 23 degree Celsius? With this kind of cold I think it's perfectly normal. If it's a big problem you should invest in engine block heater. Or some kind of remote start-stop and run engine every few hours to keep it warm.

[[email protected]]

Nope not minus 23 just plain pleasent +23 degree Celsius. Thats what i dont understand technically there should not be a problem at a temp as normal as +23 degree (which is considered low here). So dont think engine heating is the issue.

[simannjo]

14 hours ago, [email protected] said:

Every morning i try to start the car it does not start in one crank

 

How long are you holding the key in the crank position?

Do you leave ignition on for any length of time before cranking?

[jafo]

ROTFL 23 °C isn't cold or low temp - for the engine

 

If you have problems starting it - then you need to check fuel pump, injectors, fuel lines and of course - when was the last time fuel and air filter replaced ??

 

Glow plugs shouldn't be a problem as with those temps they are not used.

 

Do you know anyone with VCDS or VCP to perform diagnostic check ? Especially to check for fuel pressure. 

[[email protected]]

8 hours ago, simannjo said:

 

How long are you holding the key in the crank position?

Do you leave ignition on for any length of time before cranking?

 

Process i follow for starting the car is 

- Put key in ignition

- turn to start position and wait for all the lights and needles to finish their show and return to normal (takes about 5 secs)

- Crank once upto about 5 sec. Except for morning usually starts in one shot.

 

6 hours ago, jafo said:

ROTFL 23 °C isn't cold or low temp - for the engine

 

If you have problems starting it - then you need to check fuel pump, injectors, fuel lines and of course - when was the last time fuel and air filter replaced ??

 

Glow plugs shouldn't be a problem as with those temps they are not used.

 

Do you know anyone with VCDS or VCP to perform diagnostic check ? Especially to check for fuel pressure. 

 

the avearage temps here are about 30°C and the car starts with no issues. morning can range between 20 and 25 and thats when the problem worsens

 

I do have VCDS but use it only to read error messages etc and once to program my new bluetooth unit. I dont have a clue how to use that to check for fuel pressure. But i am assuming this was done when i gave it to the BOSCH multi car service centre considering they kept the vehicle for a week.

 

Since when the engine starts after multiple cranks, there is a lot of smoke from the exhaust, would my assumption be correct that for each crank fuel is entering the combustion chamber but not burning and finally when the engine does start all that fuel burns together which will not be consumed completely and hence comes out as white smoke. ??

[jafo]

When have you changed oil, oil filter and fuel filter? How bad is your local fuel? 

 

The fact that they've kept it for a week means nothing.

 

Unburnt fuel goes through the cat and then out so isn't burnt at all.

[[email protected]]

Just last week did my 5th full service and the fuel/air and oil filter was changed as part of that. Did not resolve the issue though.

[simannjo]

A small amount of air getting into the fuel system would cause your symptoms.

The issue is where...

 

On 19/12/2017 at 18:31, [email protected] said:

So took the car to the SKODA workshop. They kept the car for a week and finally said that they would have to change all the components of the fuel line

 

This would suggest Skoda also believe air ingress, but dont know where.

 

If 2 workshops are unable to find where, there are only a few options...

 

• Replace parts until cured.
• Wait to see if problem gets worse and becomes easier to diagnose.
• Sell vehicle.

In the first instance I would initially increase first crank time to 10 seconds to see if it makes a difference and then learn how to use VCDS to investigate further using Ross-Tech forum for help.

 

Good luck.

[[email protected]]

10 hours ago, simannjo said:

...

If 2 workshops are unable to find where, there are only a few options...

 

• Replace parts until cured.
• Wait to see if problem gets worse and becomes easier to diagnose.
• Sell vehicle.

In the first instance I would initially increase first crank time to 10 seconds to see if it makes a difference and then learn how to use VCDS to investigate further using Ross-Tech forum for help.

 

Good luck.

Thanks. right now looking at option 3. 

[silver1011]

WHITE SMOKE occurs when raw diesel comes through the exhaust completely intact and unburned. Some causes of this include

• Faulty or damaged injectors
• Incorrect injection timing (could be a worn timing gear or damaged crankshaft keyway).
• Low cylinder compression (eg caused by leaking or broken valves, piston ring sticking, cylinder and/or ring wear, or cylinder glaze)

When white smoke occurs at cold start, and then disappears as the engine warms up, the most common causes are fouling deposits around piston rings and/or cylinder glazing. Use of our Flushing Oil Concentrate and FTC Decarbonizer address these respective problems.

Water entering combustion spaces will also create white smoke. Faulty head gaskets and cracked cylinder heads or blocks are a common cause of water entry, and are often to blame. Unfortunately, expensive mechanical repair is the only proper solution here.

[Nedge68]

I would be looking at the glow plugs and injectors,

I am not sure about comment that the glow plugs are not used at these

temperatures, any diesel technicians out there?

have the injector deviation values checked, mine were out during cold starts (below 10 deg). But my car started normally and no smoke.

after injector cleaning it now runs normally.