Interesting euro NCAP test results.......(KIA looking good)

https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1114354_this-small-fiat-failed-europes-stringent-crash-tests

Already discussed a little in a Mustang thread a few weeks back.

 

A poster was happy that his 15 year old Golf IV was a 4 star or 5 star car, and therefore safer than the current Mustang which scores 2.

 

Just like the owners of 12 year old Fiat Grande Puntos were happy they had a 5 star car (which now scores 0 )

 

The pass mark has gone up a lot in 2009 and 2015.

Edited 22 December, 20178 yr by camelspyyder

6 minutes ago, camelspyyder said:

Already discussed a little in a Mustang thread a few weeks back.

 

A poster was happy that his 15 year old Golf IV was a 4 star or 5 star car, and therefore safer than the current Mustang which scores 2.

 

Just like the owners of 12 year old Fiat Grande Puntos were happy they had a 5 star car (which now scores 0 )

 

The pass mark has gone up a lot in 2009 and 2015.

What a nightmare for planners, needing a crystal ball and a weegie board it seems.

An excellent way of depreciating an asset.

I noticed yesterday when reading on the New Jimny coming out that in Australia last year Suzuki were told they could only import 100 of the current vehicles due to the lack of side airbags.

In the comment section there were people saying they were surprised that they could even sell 100 in a year, 

where actually they sell several hundred.

Horses for courses, and i suppose that no matter how many stars a vehicle has if you get hit by a road train your time is up.

 

I will retire my JImny at 20 years old from the road maybe when the new version is available.

It came with no ABS, no Traction Control and the Air Bags it had were removed 15 years ago. As happens with many vehicles going offroad or they get disabled for use offroad.

 

PS Millions of vehicles around the world and this includes the UK have 'Expired' Air Bags, 

many years past the best by date. 

Never going to deploy in an accident, and these are not just the more modern ones faulty from production and with world wide recalls, and some manufacturers still not Recalled.

Edited 22 December, 20178 yr by AwaoffSki

1 minute ago, AwaoffSki said:

I noticed yesterday when reading on the New Jimny coming out that in Australia last year Suzuki were told they could only import 100 vehicles due to the lack of side airbags.

In the comment section there were people saying they were surprised that they could even sell 100 in a year, 

where actually they sell several hundred.

Horses for courses, and i suppose that no matter how many stars a vehicle has if you get hit by a road train your time is up.

 

I will retire my JImny at 20 years old from the road maybe when the new version is available.

It came with no ABS, no Traction Control and the Air Bags it had were removed 15 years ago. As happens with many vehicles going offroad or they get disabled for use offroad.

There’s a lot to be said for an old faithful that’s beyond depreciation and worry.

.....a tool.

Lots of old tools still driving them as well.

To grow old you obviously have to survive driving, riding and travelling in these death traps.

 

Millions of Land Rover / Toyota / Nissan / Lada & other vehicles around world decades old with no Ncap test ever carried out and 

airbag free, even roll cage / roll bar less.

Edited 22 December, 20178 yr by AwaoffSki

2 minutes ago, AwaoffSki said:

Lots of old tools still driving them as well.

To grow old you obviously have to survive driving, riding and travelling in these death traps.

Oh yeah, dodge the bullets.

7 hours ago, Ryeman said:

What a nightmare for planners, needing a crystal ball and a weegie board it seems.

An excellent way of depreciating an asset.

You'd probably be better off with a ouija board if the Weegie Board that runs Glasgow Council is anything to go by. 

"Oh yeah, dodge the bullets."

 

Lol.

 

Having done both for many years, I'd much rather go back to driving my 0 stars Punto,

than go back to dodging the daily arrival of 107mm, 122mm (or, god forbid, 240mm) in some flea bitten desert 5h1t-hole.

 

 

 

Edited 22 December, 20178 yr by camelspyyder

13 hours ago, Ryeman said:

Interesting euro NCAP test results.......(KIA looking good)

https://www.thecarconnection.com/news/1114354_this-small-fiat-failed-europes-stringent-crash-tests

 

Had a third generation Punto for a year or so about 8 years ago or so and thought it felt very solid oddly enough.

 

There seems to be an increasing amount of rubbish of EuroNCAP with cars which are very similar being grade differently depending on which year they were tested and whether the version was the base model or one with extra "safety" system on it.

 

Also marks for having lane departure systems which have nothing to do with structural integrity but making up for driver deficiencies.  

 

Also still no test for rear end collision which many cars with currently high NCAP scores who fail miserably as the rear passengers would be crushed as the cars have no crumple zone to speak of.  

 

As EuroNCAP says......    

ABOUT 2016 RATING  (same in 2017)

In 2016, the star rating is based on a vehicle fitted only with safety equipment which is standard across the entire model range, throughout EU28. All cars that we assess now have a rating with standard safety equipment only. A second rating may be available for the same vehicle model which represents the additional safety available from a ‘safety pack’. This pack must contain all of the safety technologies needed to achieve the additional star rating and must be available on all variants in all countries where the additional equipment is not standard.

There are no changes to Adult Occupant Protection for 2016. The assessment of Child Occupant Protection is now based on larger child dummies, representing a 6 year old and a ten year old, rather than the smaller 18 month and 3 year dummies. Maximum points can be achieved only if the car offers three or more i-Size compatible seating positions. In Pedestrian Protection, cars that perform well in the standard tests can now score additional points if they have an autonomous emergency braking system that recognises pedestrians. Electronic Stability Control is now removed from Safety Assist as all cars must by law have such a system. The assessment of Lane Support Systems is more detailed than in previous years.

2016 assessment are significantly changed from previous years and star ratings should not be directly compared with earlier years.

 

 

 

 

Nobody wants you hang on to your ‘old’ car .......even the environmental ones.

They’ve been designed for recycling for decades with emissions reductions and safety improvements authorising the white goods reality.

I'm driving a 16year old Almera while waiting for my new car it's worthless and cost f all to fix not that it will break anyway ,in reality it's no better than my 34year old range rover but that's a different kinda thing,point is progress has been exponential I agree totally that cars have become white goods,just hope the new car don't behave like my new washing machine,broke after 14weeks it replaced a17 year old one 

11 hours ago, lol-lol said:

 

 

2016 assessment are significantly changed from previous years and star ratings should not be directly compared with earlier years.

 

 

 

 

And yet "EurokneeCAP" themselves used to arbitrarily downrate already tested cars when they changed their standards. Can we now agree that they've outlived their usefulness?

26 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

And yet "EurokneeCAP" themselves used to arbitrarily downrate already tested cars when they changed their standards. Can we now agree that they've outlived their usefulness?

It’s part of the capitalist plot.

Without consumerism - endless growth, we’re doomed

7 hours ago, KenONeill said:

And yet "EurokneeCAP" themselves used to arbitrarily downrate already tested cars when they changed their standards. Can we now agree that they've outlived their usefulness?

 

One of the most important aspects of injuries to drivers and front passengers is where the front occupant is on the seat rail ie usually the more forward the occupant is the worse the damage to them will be.

 

When airbags were first introduced there were hundreds of cases of injuries from the airbags themselves.  People who sat close the steering wheel were injured by the inflation of the airbag and hence dual stage inflation airbags.  

 

Some people sit, in my view, oddly close to the dash, steering wheel where it always seemed logical to sit as far back as is possible with the minimum amount of bend of elbow and knee to operate the car.

 

Having good tyres, setting them up properly and avoiding having an accident in the first place should be something published a lot more than the survivability in a certain type of crash.    

7 hours ago, Ryeman said:

It’s part of the capitalist plot.

Without consumerism - endless growth, we’re doomed

But, with consumerism - endless growth, we're also doomed.

The outlook is not good is it.

 

 

1 hour ago, Gerrycan said:

But, with consumerism - endless growth, we're also doomed.

The outlook is not good is it.

 

We all have to be shamed into reducing our emissions and exposure to danger by constantly updating.......doing our bit.

@lol-lolSitting close enough to the steering wheel that you can keep your elbows bent at top centre allows continuous steering instead of a series of jerks like my sis does. As a result you can get lock on and off faster, and are in better control of the car.

 

In any event, I was referring to EuroNCAP's reversal of position on the validity of comparing different standards.

58 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

@lol-lolSitting close enough to the steering wheel that you can keep your elbows bent at top centre allows continuous steering instead of a series of jerks like my sis does. As a result you can get lock on and off faster, and are in better control of the car.      In any event, I was referring to EuroNCAP's reversal of position on the validity of comparing different standards.

 

I don't think I have had a car with stiff steering was a Lada in the 1980s.  But even just a few years ago that has been lots of info about sitting close to airbags/dash etc.   

My point is that what one drives is only one point and where one sits and how good ones tyres are and defensive driving can have a bigger affect on ones safety than driving a modern ie post 2000 car, like Fiat Punto mk 3, which is a good car compared to many I have driven from the 60s, 70s, 80s and even 90s.    

 

 

=======================================================================================

https://www.michiganautolaw.com/blog/2012/02/15/air-bag-safety-tips-for-shorter-drivers/

 

Short drivers and airbag injuries – how close is too close?

Drivers who are under 5′-4″ tall tend to adjust their seats to the full forward position. This places their chests and heads too close to the steering wheel. The inflation of an airbag stored within the center of the steering wheel can move toward you at 200 miles per hour for 12 to 18 inches, and generate a force of 2,000 pounds.  The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) and the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety consider 10 inches to be a safe distance from the steering wheel.   Consider the following statistics from NHTSA on the combination of lap/shoulder safety belts and airbags:

• Combination lap/shoulder safety belts and airbags is the most effective safety system available for occupants of passenger vehicles.
• It’s 75 percent effective in preventing serious head injuries.
• It’s 66 percent effective in preventing serious chest injuries.
• Driver airbags also reduce deaths by about 14 percent in all kinds of crashes.

But with the safety airbags provide us, there are also hidden dangers. Airbag safety facts show that since 1990, 149 deaths have been attributed to airbags deploying in low-speed crashes.  There are various safety tips that drivers can follow — safety tips you can follow without deactivating your airbag and increasing your risk of a far more serious injury or wrongful death.

Minor seating adjustments for shorter drivers

There are several changes you can make to your seat to provide more space between your chest and the steering wheel to minimize injury. These include:

• Pushing the seat back, if possible.
• Tilting the steering wheel down.
• Raising the seat up to achieve 10 inches and still drive comfortably.
• If available, use a telescoping steering wheel to move it further away from your chest.
• Pedal adjuster for short drivers

If after trying the adjustments listed above for your seat, you find that you are still not at least 10 inches from your steering wheel, you may want to consider having a pedal adjuster installed on your vehicle.

You can visit an adaptive equipment dealer who could measure you and provide guidance. The mobility center’s list of dealers can be found here.  Or you can visit a local dealer that services your type of vehicle. A local dealer can help evaluate whether you need help reaching the pedals and possibly supply pedal extenders that are designed and built to provide safe access to brake and accelerator pedals.

@lol-lol - Key point is in the website name: Michiganautolaw. In other words the advice you quote applies to the larger US spec airbags.

Less will have died  or had life changing injuries probably since this thread started in a Fiat Punto than in an Audi S3 or VW Golf R.

 

Something probably to do with who and how vehicles are driven or how quick they are going when crashed.

 

Jeep Renegade = Fiat Grande Punto with all the gear & NCAP rating.

 

Edited 25 December, 20178 yr by AwaoffSki