2017 Rapid 1.2tsi 90 test drive ( advice please)

[johnny cabbage head]

I recently drove two 1.2tsi skoda rapid 90 cars both 2107 models "Ex Skoda" AKA ex rentals/ lease cars. one had 13k on the clock G17 plate ex  rental or lease. which was very nippy and impressed me , but the price was firm and I looked elsewhere and came across a 11k model which I test drove at another garage , also a G17 plate ex rental This seemed to have a bit of a flat spot on the acceleration, almost like it had reached the end of its power band but seemingly earlier than the previous one I drove. The fuel light was on this particular car, and when I questioned the dead spot on acceleration the workshop guys said probably because its low on fuel - but it was at the top of the red band on the fuel gauge not the very bottom.

I cant see how this would affect the car as long as there was sufficient fuel so  it should drive OK ?  - certainly wasnt spluttering or anything.

Can any owners shed any light on this subject ?

I would be very grateful for any input, as I suspect theres nothing in the ECU software to govern the revs when low on fuel but will happily stand corrected by someone with a greater knowledge.

Thanks in advance

[Gerrycan]

I think you already know the excuse for the flat spot smells strongly of a bull defecating.

If the tank was that low then you would be experiencing more than a flat spot.

[Rooted]

See the thread i bumped, 'Hesitation'.  

[johnny cabbage head]

1 hour ago, Gerrycan said:

I think you already know the excuse for the flat spot smells strongly of a bull defecating.

If the tank was that low then you would be experiencing more than a flat spot.

I had more or less arrived at the same conclusion, but as I have not driven / owned a petrol car for years thought it might be something worth asking about. I have heard that on some cars the engine management system  will govern the car down once low fuel in tank but never witnessed it, possibly urban myth/ Bull defacation cheers

[johnny cabbage head]

1 hour ago, AwaoffSki said:

See the thread i bumped, 'Hesitation'.  

Thanks for the heads up on that - I also ran a sneaky VCDS on the car, and a quick global scan revealed no faults on engine, so just wondering why it had this "flat spot" in acceleration between 4th and 5th gear - only 90 bhp but so was the other one which was a lot more lively and willing ??

[camelspyyder]

Or you could get a zero miles 17 plate Toledo 1.2 TSI 110 for 12k - autotrader today.

or a zero miles 67 plate 1.0 TSI 110 for 12.3k.

 

Same car as the Rapid - built in the same factory.  Less miles and more kit.

 

 

Edited 23 December, 2017 by camelspyyder

[johnny cabbage head]

3 hours ago, camelspyyder said:

Or you could get a zero miles 17 plate Toledo 1.2 TSI 110 for 12k - autotrader today.

or a zero miles 67 plate 1.0 TSI 110 for 12.3k.

 

Same car as the Rapid - built in the same factory.  Less miles and more kit.

 

 

Thanks very much for that heads up mate I will investigate that line of enquirey.

[johnny cabbage head]

 Wow ! I just rang up about a seat toledo 1.2tsi style advanced, they are a very high spec car - especially at the discounted prices, in comparison with a new rapid. I am amazed how unloved they seem to be by the motoring press and I guess they have persuaded joe public that they are a dull boring car - but the truth is its the same platform and engine as a rapid, but with a slightly different tailgate, (albeit a tad less attractive on the rear end), - but to counter that the interior and all the toys onboard the toledo are pretty stunning. I have left an offer with  a garage yesterday and he wanted a bit more than I was prepared to give.

I also wanted a white one really but only metallics, - the 1.o engines I feel might be a bit too small for a car that size - although everyone seems to like them after a test drive.

Anyone else driven both the 1.2tsi and the 1.0 engined cars ? would value opinions from owners of either car. Cheers ..merry xmas  to you all

[camelspyyder]

I had a 1.2. now got a 1.0. preferred the 1.2 for its torque spread and drivability.

 

The 1.0 may have a few more little extras and the fab LED headlights, but for me the 1.2 is a better drive.

 

Really useful family car for 4 ( or 2 + 3 kids) but neither has any torque compared with your 1.9.

 

Be ready for lots more gearchanges,especially with a 1.0.

 

 

 

Edited 25 December, 2017 by camelspyyder

[johnny cabbage head]

11 hours ago, camelspyyder said:

I had a 1.2. now got a 1.0. preferred the 1.2 for its torque spread and drivability.

 

The 1.0 may have a few more little extras and the fab LED headlights, but for me the 1.2 is a better drive.

 

Really useful family car for 4 ( or 2 + 3 kids) but neither has any torque compared with your 1.9.

 

Be ready for lots more gearchanges,especially with a 1.0.

 

 

 

Cheers for the information - I am already used to more gear changes since I sold my octavia and got a 1.6crd SE superb estate, -didnt think it would pull you out of bed but - its brilliant, I drive it pretty hard so I dont get any DPF issues and I monitor the ash content on VCDS  to ensure no sensor failures causing a build up of ash - but the wifes hyundai i10 HAS ONLY DONE 23K FROM NEW 5 YEARS AGO -SO A PETROL IS ESSENTIAL I am leaning toward the 1.2 tsi as much as I would like the xenon headlamps on the 1.0 , but the spec on the one I have found in 1.2 syle advanced is pretty much the fully loaded option, with KESSY , Automatic Post-Collision Braking System and Tiredness Recognition System . I am  deliberating over the Toledo 1.2 vs a Rapid 1.2 SE tech which is in a nicer colour... Just left an offer on the table with  one in scotland but he wouldnt drop the other £200 I wanted off the car as Im buying cash , no PX and lets face it in a weeks time the  year will click over to 2018 and its a "last years car " plus I think this is the last of the toledos...this one has been on sale for 199 days so I wont get killed in the rush buying it !. it seems like the ugly pup of the litter , but im buying with my head not my heart.

I must admit Im close to  pulling the pin and going for it , just waiting to see if theres further movement and Im also going for a mooch around the rapid today -though the garage is closed , Im that way visiting my daughter anyway so be rude not to .decisions decisions ! thanks again for your valued input

[camelspyyder]

Amongst the less obvious stuff the Rapid is missing, and that the Toledo has, is the underbonnet sound-proofing (but you can add that I'm sure) which certainly makes a significant difference on the 1.0 (and probably on the 1.2)

 

Arnold Clark's pre-reg 1.2 Toledo stock were on this summer at 13000 then 12800 12500 etc. The 1.0 has been available since June/July and at the time it was 1000 cheaper than AC so I got that.  Had the prices been the same I would have got the 1.2.

 

My personal feeling is that the interior on the Rapid is a bit low-rent in comparison with the alcantara one (although the pano roof is nice), and for me that's important because the inside is the bit I see and interact with daily.

 

 

 

 

Edited 26 December, 2017 by camelspyyder

[johnny cabbage head]

6 hours ago, camelspyyder said:

Amongst the less obvious stuff the Rapid is missing, and that the Toledo has, is the underbonnet sound-proofing (but you can add that I'm sure) which certainly makes a significant difference on the 1.0 (and probably on the 1.2)

 

Arnold Clark's pre-reg 1.2 Toledo stock were on this summer at 13000 then 12800 12500 etc. The 1.0 has been available since June/July and at the time it was 1000 cheaper than AC so I got that.  Had the prices been the same I would have got the 1.2.

 

My personal feeling is that the interior on the Rapid is a bit low-rent in comparison with the alcantara one (although the pano roof is nice), and for me that's important because the inside is the bit I see and interact with daily.

 

 

 

 

where did you buy yours from in the end ? AC seem to be the ones with a few left  on their books, all pre reg, some other dealers got them up on sale for silly prices still.

 

[MickA]

Arnold Clark has at least two 1.2TSi Style Advance models (new/pre reg) for £12k showing on Autotrader.

[camelspyyder]

I bought one Toledo at Pentagon and the other (and the Ibiza) at Westgate.

Previously had 2 painless purchases at Arnold Clarke.

They have always pre reg large amounts of cars, they did have dozens of Style Advanced 6 months back

 

 

Edited 26 December, 2017 by camelspyyder

[pinkpanther]

On 25/12/2017 at 19:03, johnny cabbage head said:

Anyone else driven both the 1.2tsi and the 1.0 engined cars ? would value opinions from owners of either car. Cheers ..merry xmas  to you all

 

I've owned 2 105 BHP 1.2 TSi (Rapid's) and recently moved over to a SEAT Toledo, equipped with the 3 cylinder 1.0 (110 BHP) TSi unit.

 

The 3 pot engine produces significantly more torque (200 Nm / 148 lb/ft vs 175 Nm / 129 lb/ft), but certainly lacks the almost "diesel like" low down tractability of the 4 cylinder 1.2 unit, no doubt as a consequence of it's low capacity.

 

In my daily driving the 1.0 engine is proving to be 10-15% more economical than the 4 cylinder 1.2 TSi's I'd previously run.

 

There is more noise with the 3 cylinder engine, but it revs very keenly and cruises quietly at motorway speeds (70 MPH equates to ~2200 RPM in 6th).

 

Overall I'd rate the 1.2 engine as the more refined unit, but appreciate the improved efficiency (and performance) afforded by the newer unit. The 1.0 also warms up very quickly.

 

My Toledo was £11995 (new) from Westgate SEAT.

 

I wrote a more detailed summary of my thoughts on the Toledo here: Car Survey review

[johnny cabbage head]

Thanks very much this is really helpful getting this type of information from actual owners of the cars, very grateful to you for your assistance.

Cheers

[johnny cabbage head]

On 26/12/2017 at 20:54, camelspyyder said:

I bought one Toledo at Pentagon and the other (and the Ibiza) at Westgate.

Previously had 2 painless purchases at Arnold Clarke.

They have always pre reg large amounts of cars, they did have dozens of Style Advanced 6 months back

 

 

I ended up buying a Toledo 1.2TSI style advanced, this morning from AC after re negotiating the deal and speaking to and visiting other garages.

I have bought over the phone without seeing the car apart from a video they sent me, and will inspect it at my local delivery centre and have a test drive before handlng over the balance. I have never bought blind before but this is a brand new car (albeit pre registered ) its not been used and has 10 miles on the clock.

 

Sadly I have come across some proper weasels and liars in my quest to locate the car I wanted, and also some really helpful honest people. One garage took £500 off me to hold the car off sale until I visited garage and inspected test drove the car, I rejected the car as it had a few issues and they would not budge on the price or rectify paintwork after first telling me that I would have to do a bank transfer and couldnt pay using my Debit card which had sufficient funds transferred into the account ready to buy a car- something I couldnt do with a gun to my head as I need a keypad which was in a drawer at home 89 miles away !

Then the games started and instead of refunding my money back on the card whilst I was in the garage - (something which other garages did with no hesitation) I had to chase them constantly, and get onto card services until they finally refunded my card 7 days later.

I am just querying the purchase forms I have been sent, because  as I have to read and accept sections  through the online order forms in a process that takes you through several  steps.

on coming to section 3 Vehicle Order Agreement it states "This is a Vehicle Order Agreement. You should read its terms on this page and the accompanying Terms and Conditions carefully. Sign it only if You want to be legally bound.

 

It refers to terms and conditions which I cannot read until i have accepted /signed the terms and conditions which is something I would not do as I have no idea what they are and this is  basically an unfair contract in its present form.

I have spoken to the sales chap who is very helpful and I have emailed him with a hard copy of what we agreed on the telephone - just to avoid any ambiguity.

After the last car we bought we were blitzed with PIP calls, emails about insurance etc etc, all obviously from someone passing our details onto third parties -thats why I dont sign ANYTHING unless I have read it and totally understood what I am subscribing to and agreeing.

will keep you posted on the outcome

 

 

[camelspyyder]

I'm guessing AC will deliver the car to a closer location in their chain, they did this for me in the past. I know AC were in Oldbury, West Midlands, also in Lancashire. No SEAT branches south of Newcastle though.

 

I myself have successfully purchased 2 pre-reg cars sight unseen from AC. You should be fine.

Edited 28 December, 2017 by camelspyyder

[johnny cabbage head]

1 hour ago, camelspyyder said:

I'm guessing AC will deliver the car to a closer location in their chain, they did this for me in the past. I know AC were in Oldbury, West Midlands, also in Lancashire. No SEAT branches south of Newcastle though.

 

I myself have successfully purchased 2 pre-reg cars sight unseen from AC. You should be fine.

Cheers for all your help...you cost me a lot of money !! Must admit its a bit disconcerting buying blind without physically seeing or driving the car - but I have had a comforting  email through saying that under the distance selling rules  its all  still fully refundable should I find the car not as described or any faults  -so the deal is on ,subject to me inspecting the car and test driving it when it arrives in my local branch , which is  in manchester so its a train ride out there for me.

I found another toledo same model at stoneacre - alledgedly ex demonstator with 6k on the clock - but the salesman couldnt lie in Bed straight , I caught him out telling porkies within 30 seconds of talking to him - plus their customer reviews were simply appalling, and then after I enquired about the car yesterday - they put the price up by £300 this morning...hope hes not holding his breath waiting for me to call back.

Looks like I am about to become the owner of a rather massivley unloved car but it ticks all the boxes for what I want, and Im not interested that Jeremy Clarkson doesnt like them anyway

Cheers for the heads up - I might have missed that bargain if it wasnt for your signposting of the deal.

[camelspyyder]

Mate, despite the obvious value, Rapids and Toledos will never get a good media review, indeed What Car, Auto Express etc, still trot out the "poor ride and steering, and "pauper equipment level" bull**** that may have applied to the 2012s but not any more. These cars have improved markedly in all areas since.

 

When I bought my second one this summer, I trawled the whole market to see what other new family size car could be had for 12k.  The Cactus or the Tipo.  No thanks!

 

If cabbies across the UK trust the Toledo, it's good enough for me too.

[johnny cabbage head]

7 minutes ago, camelspyyder said:

Mate, despite the obvious value, Rapids and Toledos will never get a good media review, indeed What Car, Auto Express etc, still trot out the "poor ride and steering, and "pauper equipment level" bull**** that may have applied to the 2012s but not any more. These cars have improved markedly in all areas since.

 

When I bought my second one this summer, I trawled the whole market to see what other new family size car could be had for 12k.  The Cactus or the Tipo.  No thanks!

 

If cabbies across the UK trust the Toledo, it's good enough for me too.

I agree with you entirely, it seems these two cars are the most overlooked in the market place,  throughout my quest for a bigger car that would ferry the grand kids around with all their kit plus shopping for us and my elderly parent , the road  was always ending up back to either of these cars, as they ticked so many boxes, engine outputs MPG, passenger room and to top it all  a boot the size of Texas ! Ive checked out everything in its class  nothing close to them as there was always something amiss ...the biggest striking feature missing in all the others was the luggage space , in a car thats not much bigger than an Astra, but has a boot space bigger than nearly every other car on the market, second only to an Octavia,  this toledo has  been loaded up to the eyeballs with goodies that would cost thousands as optional extras in other cars eg sat nav £700 metallic paint £550,  keyless,  Tiredness recognition system , parking sensors , 17" Alloys for the sporty look etc,  ...I looked at the ford focus...again overpriced undersized boot, a much talked up car but thats more media hype doing the influencing of most of the general public. I like to think outside the box, I keep looking at the spec of this car and like you say ,a Cactus or a Tipo for the same type of money...now there is a laugh in my opinion

[camelspyyder]

You didn't buy it then?

[johnny cabbage head]

On 08/01/2018 at 19:11, camelspyyder said:

You didn't buy it then?

Long Story  Here goes

I gave deposit over phone, then they sent me some " contract forms to sign" through their own online portal that I had to log into.

When I started reading the  purchase invoice - it was stating I was bound by the terms and conditions, shown on the next page - but you couldnt access the next page  and read them until you had digitally signed the page saying you had accepted them !

I contacted them and said I would not sign ANY form agreeing to terms and conditions I could not read before hand - no matter how cheap the car was.

 

I got 2 pages of terms & conditions emailed over  to me and noted they were annoted as 2 pages of 7 so I asked where the rest of the pages were.

Again Salesman said " thats all you are signing for"

I accepted terms and conditions page out of sheer curiosity, to allow me to access the next few pages, only to find I was being steered toward accepting Gap insurance - I clicked decline button and the system spat me out !

I asked the salesman again what  was going on, trying to dupe me into signing GAP insurance acceptance online.

 

I also noted that the email I recieved when I paid my deposit stated "you have opted to fill out forms online" I wasnt given a choice and when I asked the salesman told me  "this is the only way we can do it".

 

I rang another arnold Clark and posed as a potential buyer of the same car and they said and confirmed by email that I only needed to pay  a deposit online then when I had seen car in manchester , tested and accepted it - only then would I be asked to fill in forms and I could opt out of GAP insurance, and sharing my information amongst their business partners- something else I was being asked to accept and allow via the online forms.

 

I had specifically stated I did not want my details being sold on or forwarded - as when we bought the wifes last new car , we were so innundated with nuisance calls for12  months after  -I had to change my home number !

 

This other AC  branch could  offer me a delivery to manchester , but could not not match the price I had negotiated with the the first garage where my deposit was lodged.

It all became suddenly clear  -obviously thats why I was being duped into GAP insurance and sharing my information  to claw back some of the discount I had negotiated on this cars buying price.

 

I made  the other garage a few offers but they said they were not allowed to move on the price. (I even said I could get it cheaper from another branch and they laughed at me)

 

I also asked my mate a trading standards officer to look at the forms they had sent me online which I had screen shot .

His words were thus

 

" Regardless of what the salesman is telling you over the phone- if you digitally sign those forms you will be bound by their conditions as you have been deemed to accept them, and the same with the Gap insurance as to decline them digitally  meant I was no longer able to continue with the order as their system voided  the transaction unless I accepted the insurance" .

 

so effectively the salesman  was lying to me trying to decieve me into unwittingly taking out GAP insurance along with giving my lifes details for them to sell on.

Trading standards advised me and I got my deposit back after sending a recorded signed for cancellation letter quoting the distance selling rules.

 

I decided to buy a used one just under 3 yrs old for the wife, it was mint 13K fsh  and I even checked it over on VCDS before I bought it- then yesterday I bought another 17k FSH  Toledo  for my Daughter as her present  car was woefully undersized for someone carrying a baby and all the kit that you need.

So in conclusion - instead of Buying a 6 month old Toledo I decided to be less self indulgent and bought a used one for my wife and that allowed me to fund a used one for my daughter , thats the Bank of Dad closed now though as I only paid for her wedding last June !

 

My mate also commented that he would look into this practise as there was no durable cancellation correspondance sent to me which is a provision made by law in all distance selling . He said that AC had a bad name with consumer groups - No wonder with Weasel tricks like this- I had completley lost trust in them, this salesman couldnt lie in bed straight !

I know you had two positive experiences - maybe I bought from the wrong branch, but once I lose trust or detect bullsh*t I walk.- still my daughter and wife are both delighted with their toledos.

 

 

When I take my pension if Im still kicking around - I will probably treat myself to a new one - well pre reg if theres any on offer

 

[nbramwel]

Sadly the attitude of many companies these days leaves a lot to be desired.  How people can act in this way is simply beyond me.  It's no wonder we need consumer protection legislation when companies, many of whom are large organisations and should know better, are behaving this way.  Your trading standards mate did you a big favour.  Glad you got things sorted though.

 

My only experience of Arnold Clark was a couple of years ago.  I saw a VW Golf at their Wigan site but when it came to talking money, the salesman said they had priced the car incorrectly.  I walked away and bought a Skoda Fabia elsewhere only to get a phone call from Arnold Clarks asking why I hadnt bought from them.  Unbelievable.

Edited 11 January, 2018 by nbramwel

[Rooted]

Trading Standards did very little all these past decades while Arnold Clark built his company to be the biggest individual family owned Motor Group 

in Europe, and then when he became Sir Arnold Clark for services to business and charity even less if anything.

 

There have been decades of snide practices which continue after Sir Arnold's passing.

 

Once when the thought they had one over on me with a car ordered and deposit paid which they tried to withhold when months after the delivery date it turned out no car was ever ordered.

They had my Signatures on all the relevant papers, and their T&C's that suited what they though would have them keep the deposit.

Issue for them it was a English Contract, English Law, i signed in Scotland and would be sueing in a Scottish Court.

So deposit back, interest paid at the interest they charged for credit and a gesture payment for my troubles.

That was with no assistance from Trading Standards.

 

I used to love the Spoof Arnold Clark Websites that were constantly posted and back up as soon as taken down.

Not so many Youtube ones as there used to be.

Anyone could film one though, as this is daily in their Motor Group at Dealerships around the country.

 

Edited 11 January, 2018 by AwaoffSki