Felicia coolant temp puzzle !!

[RicardoM]

14 hours ago, eng_ahmad1986 said:

it turned out that the engine block is rusted and is leaking coolant into cylinders and leaking compression into coolant

Let me doubt very much that the engine block is rusted...

The cylinder head may be pitted, yes, but it can be resurfaced if not below factory limit.

 

136B engine has a 50kW rated power, mainly due to a higher compression ratio (9.7:1 vs 8.8:1). Having a carburetor instead injection will have a marginal effect depending on how well the carburetor and timing are set.

 

Please remind me why this fashion in Egypt to put a carburetor on an injection engine.

[eng_ahmad1986]

On 1/24/2018 at 15:11, RicardoM said:

Please remind me why this fashion in Egypt to put a carburetor on an injection engine.

 

Sorry for the late reply, yes we have this fashion in Egypt to lower the cost as mpi involves buying a control unit and new wiring, (expensive in egypt) , and due to the ease and simplicity of diagnosing and repairing, and the mpi electronic components like sensors and so are hard to find, no new parts and hard to find used parts in a good working condition.

 

now i have tested the compression of the engine while it was hot, it gave 12.7 bar for the weakest cylinder and 13.7 bar for the strongest one, now how well this engine is? 

 

Another thing, i have adjusted the valve clearance as 0.2 for the intake and 0.25 for the exhaust , but this setup makes an uncomfortable ticking noise, the mechanic insists it should be 0.2 for all valves, that was the ticking noise will be reduced to a minimum, whats your opinion? It matters very much to me  

[RicardoM]

1 hour ago, eng_ahmad1986 said:

now i have tested the compression of the engine while it was hot, it gave 12.7 bar for the weakest cylinder and 13.7 bar for the strongest one, now how well this engine is? 

It is OK.

1 hour ago, eng_ahmad1986 said:

Another thing, i have adjusted the valve clearance as 0.2 for the intake and 0.25 for the exhaust , but this setup makes an uncomfortable ticking noise,

Skoda Felicia service manual says otherwise. It is a 0.25 mm clearance for intake, and 0.20 mm clearance for the exhaust.

[eng_ahmad1986]

46 minutes ago, RicardoM said:

Skoda Felicia service manual says otherwise. It is a 0.25 mm clearance for intake, and 0.20 mm clearance for the exhaust.

 

thank you for this quick reply , you are very helpful to me really thank you  

 

I have read in a post hear that some Felicia engines have aluminum and steel pushrod mix, that's why we have different clearances because they expand differently under heat , and some engines have all 8 steel pushrods, that makes the valve clearance 0.2 mm for all , now for the 136B engine, what pushrods do I have !!  

 

thank you  

 

[RicardoM]

[eng_ahmad1986]

really thank you very much , I will see and tell you what it turned out to be  really thank you  

[RicardoM]

 

4 minutes ago, eng_ahmad1986 said:

really thank you very much

Please read my signature.

[eng_ahmad1986]

actually you deserve a thousand like  thank you  

[nimbus]

On 20/01/2018 at 16:25, RicardoM said:

I disagree. The fan kicks in at 95°C, maximum 100°C. Never close to 110°C.

Hello everyone,

I don't want to open a new topic so I will write my question her :
-  My fan kicks in at this point (near the 110 mark). And after reading this topic its looks like its too high, so is the thermoswitch faulty ?  Thanks

 

 

 

 

Edited 19 June, 2018 by nimbus
wrong information

[RicardoM]

You should tell us a bit about the history of the issue before guessing.

When asking something, think about the information you'll provide if you're visiting a car workshop. You'll get questions like:

• when did the issue start?
• any related event you can think of?
• on what conditions the issue occurs?

[KenONeill]

@nimbus @RicardoM - And, indeed, where does the gauge "normally" sit anyway? I'm always inclined to ask this due to memories of 1970s British Leyland cars where "normal temperature point" could be anything from 3 needle widths out of the cold marking to 3 short of the hot!

[Papez]

Fan switch is rated to range of 94-99°C, so fan kicks somewhere around 105-110°C, because it's placed on output side of radiator. 

 

Normal temperature is 90°C, it's close around middle mark on temp gauge. It varies slightly only around initial thermostat opening, after that it should be stable.

 

These are true for central european spec, cars for warmer climate markets may have some mods - for example fan thermal switch rated to 90°C, which kick at around 95°C. I made this mod to my car, because I didn't like needle creeping to 110° mark everytime I was stuck in traffic. I used switch from Estelle, now it starts at 95°, which sounds much better, although that means that it runs almost constantly in warmer days. 

Edited 20 June, 2018 by Papez

[KenONeill]

@Papez - I'd agree your argument, subject to the OP's car having a correctly calibrated gauge.

[nimbus]

5 hours ago, KenONeill said:

@nimbus @RicardoM - And, indeed, where does the gauge "normally" sit anyway? I'm always inclined to ask this due to memories of 1970s British Leyland cars where "normal temperature point" could be anything from 3 needle widths out of the cold marking to 3 short of the hot!

Well at the middle mark so 90 degrees.

16 hours ago, RicardoM said:

You should tell us a bit about the history of the issue before guessing.

When asking something, think about the information you'll provide if you're visiting a car workshop. You'll get questions like:

• when did the issue start?
• any related event you can think of?
• on what conditions the issue occurs?

Just see it early this week when I was stuck in traffic. I get scared and started the heater fan for cooling down.

3 hours ago, Papez said:

Fan switch is rated to range of 94-99°C, so fan kicks somewhere around 105-110°C, because it's placed on output side of radiator. 

 

That's really high when your in traffic jam during a hot summer day :S

 

I took a look on technical data of fan switches that i can buy here in Denmark, only find thermoswitch  with a range of 92-97 degrees.

[KenONeill]

@nimbus - OK, I ask about gauges because "temperature issues" can be the gauge rather than the engine temperature. I used to have a Citroen BX that didn't have a gauge, just a thermostatic fan and a "too hot light". I only ever had the fan on it cut in audibly once, after spending 20 minutes idling in a traffic queue.

 

How hot was it in Denmark that day? We've had lots of atypically hot weather in the UK. You did the right thing by turning on the heater for additional cooling if you were concerned though. I've told people to do the same thing while they get out of traffic before.

[Papez]

23 minutes ago, nimbus said:

Well at the middle mark so 90 degrees.

Just see it early this week when I was stuck in traffic. I get scared and started the heater fan for cooling down.

That's really high when your in traffic jam during a hot summer day :S

 

I took a look on technical data of fan switches that i can buy here in Denmark, only find thermoswitch  with a range of 92-97 degrees.

Yeah, it is, especially when you are unlucky to have switch from upper end of range that's why I replaced it with estelle switch. Sadly I can't find it anymore, even manufacturer doesn't have it anymore (it was Metra TH470.1)

[nimbus]

36 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

@nimbus

How hot was it in Denmark that day? We've had lots of atypically hot weather in the UK. You did the right thing by turning on the heater for additional cooling if you were concerned though. I've told people to do the same thing while they get out of traffic before.

Around 25 degrees

[nimbus]

36 minutes ago, Papez said:

 Sadly I can't find it anymore, even manufacturer doesn't have it anymore (it was Metra TH470.1)

Oh thats  sad

[KenONeill]

16 minutes ago, nimbus said:

Around 25 degrees

That could be enough to trigger the fan in queueing traffic. I wouldn't fit a lower temperature thermo-switch though, because that will give you probable issues with over-cooling, which is worse than "hot but not boiling".

 

The other thing you could do is check the specific gravity of the coolant, and if that's low (25% or less) drain some off and add antifreeze to get it to about 50%. @RicardoM - If you agree my logic (bearing in mind that Nimbus can get sub-zero air temperatures) could you supply the system volume figure for him?

[nimbus]

1 minute ago, KenONeill said:

That could be enough to trigger the fan in queueing traffic. I wouldn't fit a lower temperature thermo-switch though, because that will give you probable issues with over-cooling, which is worse than "hot but not boiling".

 

The other thing you could do is check the specific gravity of the coolant, and if that's low (25% or less) drain some off and add antifreeze to get it to about 50%. @RicardoM - If you agree my logic (bearing in mind that Nimbus can get sub-zero air temperatures) could you supply the system volume figure for him?

Yes but the coolant is pretty new I changed it for 2-3 month ago

[KenONeill]

4 minutes ago, nimbus said:

Yes but the coolant is pretty new I changed it for 2-3 month ago

OK, so you know that it's to level and what mix you're running then?

[nimbus]

21 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

OK, so you know that it's to level and what mix you're running then?

50% for -36 degrees

[Papez]

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

 I wouldn't fit a lower temperature thermo-switch though, because that will give you probable issues with over-cooling, which is worse than "hot but not boiling".

Umm what? How could thermoswitch cause overcooling? Coolant temperature is maintained by thermostat, not by fan. Only drawback of low-temp switch is that fan runs more often.

 

Btw i found that thermoswitch on czech eshop it has PN 113095070. It's for Estelle, but it fits, you just have to change connector for faston.

[KenONeill]

16 hours ago, nimbus said:

50% for -36 degrees

Cheers; you're good to not boil until at least 115C with the standard pressure cap then.

[KenONeill]

14 hours ago, Papez said:

Umm what? How could thermoswitch cause overcooling? Coolant temperature is maintained by thermostat, not by fan. Only drawback of low-temp switch is that fan runs more often.

 

Also @RicardoM 

 

The thermostat will be fully open well before the radiator thermo-switch starts the fan. "Overcooling" is a technical condition where the actual coolant temperature drops below the design "normal running temperature" due to the fan duty cycle being excessive (or the thermostat being removed, but I think we can rule that out on this vehicle).