Clutch failure

[JJ2]

My friends Ex demo fabia with 5000 miles has suffered clutch failure initially the clutch pedal was floppy and couldn’t change gear when leaving the filling station. AA drove the car to the dealers about 6 miles away. Any suggestions as to cause, the garage say it’s due to regularly slipping the clutch when driving but the damage doesn’t seem consistent with that.

 

[rum4mo]

Maybe your friend needs to agree with the dealer, but point the finger at then as what happened to it while they used it as a demo?

[KenONeill]

@JJ2 - Well, 5_000 miles is way too soon for clutch damage other than due to systematic abuse. What was the mileage when your friend bought the car? Like rum4mo I'd agree that the most likely cause is the car being abused as a demonstrator.

[JJ2]

Thanks most of the miles done as a demonstrator but clutch lining doesn’t seem to show that sort of ware more ripped to shreds with thick chunks missing 

[Lyminton]

Same thing happened to me when I've accidentally dropped from 5th to 1st before roundabout. Clutch exploded and bits stuck to pressure plate...

Brand new Fabia 1.2T with 250 miles on the clock

Edited 14 March, 2018 by Lyminton

[KenONeill]

@JJ2 - Well IMO that's either overheating or a manufacturing defect. I'd actually incline to the manufacturing defect because there's no sign of blueing on the flywheel.

[JJ2]

Thanks that’s my feeling too

[rum4mo]

Well that is not a very pretty picture!

 

I wonder not only which manufacturer Skoda uses and maybe more importantly which country/plant these clutch plates or linings are made in, my wife has a 2015 1.2TSI 110PS Polo, but I think that Skoda got the task of building all these engines and so sourcing these clutches!

 

Now I am a bit concerned as today I was in the wrong gear so stumbled out in front of a large truck at a roundabout, so needed to find 1st quickly and hammer it a bit - maybe saved rear of the car but life'd the friction material of the clutch plate - I hope not!

 

Edit:- ah made in Slovakia - enough said, oh bother!

Edited 14 March, 2018 by rum4mo

[ettlz]

1 hour ago, Lyminton said:

Same thing happened to me when I've accidentally dropped from 5th to 1st before roundabout. Clutch exploded and bits stuck to pressure plate...

Brand new Fabia 1.2T with 250 miles on the clock

 

Ouch! I'm surprised the synchronisers let you put it in gear!

 

There's a TPI that describes this failure mode (their example is 5th to 2nd at around 75mph). Shows the importance of losing the speed *before* shifting gear.

Edited 14 March, 2018 by ettlz

[Skodaboy1983]

Wowsers!

 

I would be seeing if the dealer can admit blame as well, defo looks like it's been abused as a demonstrator!

 

Davy

[bigjohn]

How long has your friend had the car?

 

Under the Consumers Rights act 2015:-

 

Within 30 days

Under the new act, if a fault renders the product not of satisfactory quality, not fit for purpose or not as described, then the buyer is entitled to reject it within the first 30 days.

 

Between 30 days and 6 months
If a fault comes to light after 30 days but before 6 months you’re entitled to a repair, replacement or refund.

It’s assumed in law that the fault was present at the time of purchase unless the seller can prove otherwise.
Unless you’ve agreed otherwise, the seller (dealer) has only one opportunity to repair (or replace) the faulty vehicle after which, if they fail to repair it, you’re entitled to a refund.
In the event of a refund following a failed attempt at repair during the first six months the seller may make a 'reasonable' adjustment to the amount refunded to take account of the use that you’ve had of the vehicle.

 

After 6 months
The burden is on you to prove that the product was faulty at the time of delivery if you want to pursue a claim for repair or replacement.

Edited 14 March, 2018 by bigjohn

[JJ2]

About 3 months 

[Pumatron]

Well, my pennies worth.

So, 13 years on the workshop floor of main dealers would say to me that was a manufacturing defect. 

 

1. When a clutch over heats, usually the friction material turns to “fibre dust”.

2. You can clearly see the friction material (from experience) is not excessively worn, like you would get with excessive clutch slip.

3. The friction material has only broken off on one side of the friction plate. 

4. The pressure plate and friction plate has no signs of excessive overheating. 

 

I would say the friction material has separated from the pressure plate due to the friction material being defective or the riveting of the friction material to the pressure plate was insufficient.

 

I have seen what happens when a wrong gear is selected, usually the spring fingers (not visible in pictures provided by OP), fail causing catastrophic pressure plate failure contributing to damage to gearbox casings etc. 

 

The dealer/Skoda needs to provide solid evidence to now prove that it was Driver error (which it doesn’t look like it was to me). 

 

These are my own opinions and recommendations. 

 

 

[octyal]

Check the small print in the warranty statement - I suspect it will not be covered, as most new car warranty only covers the clutch to 6k at the most. To me it looks like it has denatured for some reason, be it over speeding (4th to 2nd) or less likely slipping.

[Lyminton]

14 hours ago, ettlz said:

 

Ouch! I'm surprised the synchronisers let you put it in gear!

 

There's a TPI that describes this failure mode (their example is 5th to 2nd at around 75mph). Shows the importance of losing the speed *before* shifting gear.

I didn't even release clutch fully, revs gone up and closed rev counter. After that I couldn't change gears while the engine was on. 

[Lyminton]

5 minutes ago, octyal said:

Check the small print in the warranty statement - I suspect it will not be covered, as most new car warranty only covers the clutch to 6k at the most. To me it looks like it has denatured for some reason, be it over speeding (4th to 2nd) or less likely slipping.

I had it repaired under warranty as vehicle only just left showroom...

[JJ2]

Thanks for all the help decided to get an independent report on the damage. 

[KenONeill]

1 hour ago, JJ2 said:

Thanks for all the help decided to get an independent report on the damage. 

That seems sensible; remember that this report is a cost that you can claim back from the dealer if it says what we all think it will (...manufacturing defect...).

[2ndskoda]

On 14/03/2018 at 16:47, KenONeill said:

@JJ2 - Well IMO that's either overheating or a manufacturing defect. I'd actually incline to the manufacturing defect because there's no sign of blueing on the flywheel.

 

The picture does not show the flywheel, just the pressure plate and the centre plate, but I do agree that there is no evidence of overheating.

Certainly the centre plate has let go as a result of a high force/demand incident.

The dealer / skoda are going to sight changing down without increasing engine revs to compensate/match the new situation.

 

I have seen this many times over many years - the centre plate is suddenly subjected to a high force in reverse to its usual directional function. The condition of the clutch plate supports the theory that the car has gone from a high gear to a low gear suddenly - and without increased revs to compensate for this change.

The motion and weight of the car through the drive train has imposed the whole sudden force trying to speed up the engine. I think they will argue the case accordingly.

What we dont know is if the car was 'abused' during its demonstrator days by a bad driving technique by all who used it. (This would be near impossible to prove)

 

If you keep up with VW group nuances, I believe(?)  that there was reported evidence that a certain brand of clutch plate were prone to failure, but I cannot remember where I saw that report.

I will try to find this.

Edited 20 March, 2018 by 2ndskoda