Oh, and another thing - they may not be able to sell (deliver) new cars with the current signal booster post the date the new regulations came into effect, but would this apply retrospectively? If not, then it's more than likely that the impact to people who already have their cars is nil.

I worked in and around the law for 40 years before retirement 7 years ago and I'm beginning to wonder what legal advice Skoda was given before they decided to impose this delivery blocking instruction.

 

I have only just taken the time to read in detail the OFCOM (UK Telecoms Regulator) paperwork on their recent regulation change which is being cited by some as the reason for Skoda's decision. In fact it is anything but. Rather than impose additional licensing obligations on car manufacturers in this area, OFCOM's new regulations have made low-gain mobile phone repeaters licence exempt. Confused? - stay with me.

 

Skoda would presumably not issue a 'handover/delivery block' instruction to their dealer network over a relaxation in the regulations, thus the mobile phone repeaters specified in Kodiaqs and Karoqs must not be of the type covered by the regulation change and are therefore still required to be licensed. What happened at Skoda HQ when this regulation change became known. Is it remotely possible that Skoda only then realised they should have had a licence issued for their use all along and didn't have one?

I may of course have got this completely arse about face but I don't think so. Can any other legal brain out there tell me I'm wrong and why ??

Skoda UK making a mess of something? Nah, you must be miles off 

39 minutes ago, colmar51 said:

the reason for Skoda's decision

 

Let's not pin this one on Skoda individually as it appears to impact on all VAG cars.

 

It is all very confusing about what did and does now require a licence, and as we don't know why (or even if, but you guess it must) the VAG system falls foul of the new regulations, there's no point even speculating about it. However, the timelines seem to be rather compact for this - it sounds to me as though it was a proposal from Ofcom that has been around since last year, but the decision to actually implement the regulation was only taken last month with an effective date of some time this month. Now, I can see a large company like VAG not wanting to make decisions that will impact on their supply chain, products, and who-knows-what-else every time a proposal from a regulatory body comes along (especially one that will only impact on one country!)... and so they won't do anything until the proposal becomes a definite. The problem here is that cars will have been ordered months ago, and even possibly built before the decision was made, but were not due to be delivered until after the effective date!

 

VAG bashing is all too easy, but in this instance I would suggest the blame (if you want to blame someone) is perhaps with Ofcom in changing a regulation with very little lead time until it becomes effective.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/448716-dealer-skoda-come-good 

5 minutes ago, Offski said:

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/448716-dealer-skoda-come-good 

 

Linking to someones dream of Skoda dealer and Skoda making good this mess doesn’t really help anyone that’s affected by this problem.

OK ... got my car today

No Wireless Charging, no signal boost.

There was no report/letter/information provided at time of handover.  I may put some form of letter to them advising that I want these items at some point.

30 minutes ago, WiggosSideburns said:

 

Let's not pin this one on Skoda individually as it appears to impact on all VAG cars.

 

It is all very confusing about what did and does now require a licence, and as we don't know why (or even if, but you guess it must) the VAG system falls foul of the new regulations, there's no point even speculating about it. However, the timelines seem to be rather compact for this - it sounds to me as though it was a proposal from Ofcom that has been around since last year, but the decision to actually implement the regulation was only taken last month with an effective date of some time this month. Now, I can see a large company like VAG not wanting to make decisions that will impact on their supply chain, products, and who-knows-what-else every time a proposal from a regulatory body comes along (especially one that will only impact on one country!)... and so they won't do anything until the proposal becomes a definite. The problem here is that cars will have been ordered months ago, and even possibly built before the decision was made, but were not due to be delivered until after the effective date!

 

VAG bashing is all too easy, but in this instance I would suggest the blame (if you want to blame someone) is perhaps with Ofcom in changing a regulation with very little lead time until it becomes effective.

I'm sorry WSB but I think you are missing the point. The OFCOM proposal went through a complete, legitimate discussion paper with an invitation to comment last year. Only 4 responses were received - I don't know if VAG/Skoda were one of them but to suggest OFCOM gave little lead time on this is very far of the mark.

 

Be that as it may, the proposed regulation changes can have had no possible adverse impact on the VAG group - regulations were being relaxed not tightened. I'm not here to VAG bash but the question remains - what spooked Skoda? The lawyer in me would like to know.

My understanding was that signal boosters were being confirmed as legal but within the bands that OFCOM licence. Presumably those that Skoda have been fitting aren't compliant in some way... probably working on unlicensed bands.

41 minutes ago, colmar51 said:

but to suggest OFCOM gave little lead time on this is very far of the mark.

 

You missed my point entirely. VAG are not going to make a change to a product that will impact on their supply chain and lots of other things on the basis of a proposal from Ofcom or any other regulator. There are plenty of proposals that get changed or dropped entirely along the way, so to do so would be ridiculous in case either of those things happen. VAG are only going to act once it is decided to make that proposal an actual regulation. The timeframe between Ofcom deciding that they were going to implement the regulation, and it coming into effect, was about one month in this case. That is far too short a timescale for VAG to make the change, so they are forced to stop deliveries of offending vehicles until they can be 'fixed', and stop putting the component into new builds for the time being until they can source a component that is compliant with the regulations. If Ofcom had decided to implement the regulations and give an 'effective from' date of 1 Jan 2019 or something, then it would have given VAG plenty of time to source a new compliant component and get it into the production line so that vehicles delivered after that date would be ok, and there would be no disruption to the whole order/build/delivery process.

 

Even if VAG had new compliant components available as of the decision date - they still wouldn't have been able to make sure every car to be delivered after the 'effective from' date had the new component. The timeframe was just too short.

Edited 23 April, 20188 yr by WiggosSideburns
Added last bit.

Completely off point - nothing at all to do with timescale - have you actually read the OFCOM documentation - I suspect not.

KennyR,  the same problem across different models is relevant IME.

?

Did you read the link?, Skoda never made good, the OP woke up, and reality broke out.

There are different threads on the same issue in different sections of Briskoda with various titles.

 

Concerning the handover of Kodiaq, Superb & Karoq,  but the Karoq Possible Recall thread has been moved to the General Chat Section'. 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/448648-possible-recall 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/448589-you-will-not-believe-this 

Edited 23 April, 20188 yr by Offski

9 minutes ago, Offski said:

KennyR,  the same problem across different models is relevant IME.

There are different threads on the same issue in different sections of Briskoda with various titles.

 

Concerning the handover of Kodiaq, Superb & Karoq,  but the Karoq Possible Recall thread has been moved to the General Chat Section'. 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/448648-possible-recall 

Yeah I know the problem envolves other Skoda models as well as other VAG cars. My point was posting a link to someone’s tongue in cheek post about a dream they had about Skoda fixing their problem ( Not) was of no use to anybody.

Edited 23 April, 20188 yr by Kenny R

You just ignore as you wish,  it was there to read or not if anyone missed it in another section.

 

Well we will have to beg to differ as people have about 6 threads maybe more spread about this forum all really about the same issue that has arose, and with different titles.

Delivery times, on signing finance, possible recalls, ironic posts...

Edited 23 April, 20188 yr by Offski

This isn't the first time, or will it be the last time that Skoda UK have dropped the ball. Whether it's SEAT, Skoda, VW or Audi, the technology might be the same but their marketing and customer services teams are run separately.

 

Having to remove the feature as a temporary measure doesn't appear to be the main issue here, it's another mainstream manufacturer doing a pretty woeful job of keeping their franchised dealers and thus their end users informed.

 

A properly prepared and thought-through statement, an immediate offer of goodwill, or at least an expected timeline to reactivating the feature or offering a replacement should have been ready before deliveries were stopped.

 

I'm not a betting man but any shortage of time to get things straight first will be down to VAG, not Ofcom.

49 minutes ago, colmar51 said:

Completely off point - nothing at all to do with timescale - have you actually read the OFCOM documentation - I suspect not.

 

Yes, actually, I did read it before I posted the link to it.

 

So, your point is this...

 

1 hour ago, colmar51 said:

the proposed regulation changes can have had no possible adverse impact on the VAG group

 

Please explain your insider knowledge and how you can be so certain that this is the case, when all the evidence points to the other conclusion - that it did have an impact and that's why they can't deliver the cars with the signal booster installed and working.

52 minutes ago, colmar51 said:

Completely off point - nothing at all to do with timescale - have you actually read the OFCOM documentation - I suspect not.

Ofcom’s new policy changes this and would of course come attach to some extra conditions, such as a requirement that the repeaters operate only over the frequency bands of any single licensed network operator at a given time. Related devices must also adjust their power to the minimum necessary to make a reliable connection and incorporate anti-oscillation measures.

 

I suspect the boosters don't have some of the now required features.

17 minutes ago, silver1011 said:

Having to remove the feature as a temporary measure doesn't appear to be the main issue here, it's another mainstream manufacturer doing a pretty woeful job of keeping their franchised dealers and thus their end users informed.

 

Amen brother... couldn't agree more. But let's face it, it's not just car manufacturers that have this problem, it's any large company. I've worked for several in my time and none are any better than the next when it comes to communicating internally, let alone to their customers.

2 minutes ago, WiggosSideburns said:

 

Yes, actually, I did read it before I posted the link to it.

 

So, your point is this...

 

 

Please explain your insider knowledge and how you can be so certain that this is the case, when all the evidence points to the other conclusion - that it did have an impact and that's why they can't deliver the cars with the signal booster installed and working.

Just read.... 

For the most likely legal explanation.

10 minutes ago, WiggosSideburns said:

 

Amen brother... couldn't agree more. But let's face it, it's not just car manufacturers that have this problem, it's any large company. I've worked for several in my time and none are any better than the next when it comes to communicating internally, let alone to their customers.

 

Absolutely, this isn't Skoda / VAG 'bashing', this is 'poor service' bashing.

 

The number of directly affected customers seem to be those who are close to taking delivery. Those with their cars already won't be overly concerned, those just about to order won't have noticed that the feature has disappeared from the configurator.

 

Skoda know that they aren't going to sell less cars as a result of this, I imagine they've decided that their efforts are better placed elsewhere.

 

A little more forethought and this could have been even more of a non-issue.

1 minute ago, silver1011 said:

A little more forethought and this could have been even more of a non-issue.

 

But that takes me right back to my point - VAG are not going to change things until they have to. And even if they had planned for it and were ready, the timescales involved were so short that a vehicle built before the decision could still be on its way to the dealer, and so not handed over before the 'effective from' date of the new regulation... which would mean the function would have to be disabled by the dealer, as is the situation now.

Organisations, such as Ofcom, don't issue new legislation, or changes to existing legislation with unreasonably short timescales. VAG will have had plenty of time to get their head around this issue and make the necessary preparations.

 

Preventing customers from picking up their cars suggests someone has messed up, my bet is it isn't Ofcom.

3 minutes ago, silver1011 said:

Organisations, such as Ofcom, don't issue new legislation, or changes to existing legislation with unreasonably short timescales.

 

Now it's my turn to ask - did you look at the link I posted?

 

On 22 March 2018 we made the Wireless Telegraphy (Mobile Repeater) (Exemption) Regulations 2018 (the “Regulations”) which will come into force on 12 April 2018.

 

That's precisely 3 weeks between them making the regulation and it coming into force. Yes, they consulted about it beforehand, but as I keep saying - VAG aren't going to make changes until they have to... i.e. when regulations are actually made, not when the idea first comes about and they start consulting about it.

We're all speculating.

 

Skoda / VAG knew about the change to the regulations long, long before March.

 

VAG isn't the only user of this equipment, yet as far as we know they're the only ones who got it wrong.

14 minutes ago, WiggosSideburns said:

 

That's precisely 3 weeks between them making the regulation and it coming into force. Yes, they consulted about it beforehand, but as I keep saying - VAG aren't going to make changes until they have to... i.e. when regulations are actually made, not when the idea first comes about and they start consulting about it.

 

Which is possibly why VAG got themselves into trouble over diesel emissions, and why you can’t currently order a petrol Kodiaq. 

 

From a SEAT forum that is discussing the exact same issue, it doesn’t sound like it is recent legislation changes that have caused the block to deliveries - it sounds like VAG have discovered the wireless booster is doing something that has been illegal for a while, and like the diesel emissions, they either didn’t realise or no one else has spotted it...

 

http://www.contracthireacar.com/blog/breaking-news-an-immediate-stop-made-to-deliveries-of-certain-models-with-wireless-phone-chargers

 

“It has come to light that the signal-boosting technology has been found to be capable of receiving signals from restricted sources and organisations that are ordinarily illegal to intercept.”