Fabia VRS SE clutch pedal issue

[Swainyhd]

I need some assistance guys, so I have to keep pumping the clutch every so often to keep pressure in the line it doesn't appear to be losing fluid anywhere so I suspect an air leak where should I start looking? Master cylinder or slave cylinder? Its a 2007 mk1 believe to be the BLT engine thanks in advance!

[Gt4thomas]

Could be a failing concentric slave cylinder. When was it last replaced ?.

 

Does the clutch disengage when you fully depress the pedal?. 

 

It is worth checking for leaks where all the lines terminate. 

 

 

[Swainyhd]

It has an uprated clutch to my knowledge, purchased the car today number 235 SE not entirely sure when any major work was done has a full service history but parts of the paperwork is incomplete the clutch fully disengages when there is pressure but when theres no pressure in the pedal I have to quite literally pump it up like a balloon crazy really but thats about all I can tell you as for leaks I cannot visibly see any leaks where lines terminate and fluid levels are normal 

[Gt4thomas]

Do you know if the concentric slave cylinder was replaced?. 

 

Should be replaced every time a new clutch/pressure plate is fitted.

 

Does sound like alot of air in the system. If it wasn't replaced could be leaking inside the bell housing. 

 

Check the pedal linkage inside the car for damage/leaks. 

[Swainyhd]

Booked in for a complete replacement of the master cylinder linkage appears to be fine but the master cylinder is the cheapest option at the moment

[sepulchrave]

24 minutes ago, Swainyhd said:

Booked in for a complete replacement of the master cylinder linkage appears to be fine but the master cylinder is the cheapest option at the moment

 

Have you checked the fluid level, if it gets too low the clutch sucks air in.

[Swainyhd]

10 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

 

Have you checked the fluid level, if it gets too low the clutch sucks air in.

Over time the clutch looses pressure regardless of what I do dluid leveps are perfectly fine 

[sepulchrave]

3 hours ago, Swainyhd said:

Over time the clutch looses pressure regardless of what I do dluid leveps are perfectly fine 

 

It sounds like it simply needs pressure bleeding, if a seal had failed there would be fluid loss, air cannot get in without fluid getting out because the fluid is at such high pressure when you press the pedal.

[Swainyhd]

1 hour ago, sepulchrave said:

 

It sounds like it simply needs pressure bleeding, if a seal had failed there would be fluid loss, air cannot get in without fluid getting out because the fluid is at such high pressure when you press the pedal.

This is exactly what has me confused as well, fluid levels have not dropped but pressure is being lost over time, I lose pressure even faster if I boot it 

[sepulchrave]

2 minutes ago, Swainyhd said:

This is exactly what has me confused as well, fluid levels have not dropped but pressure is being lost over time, I lose pressure even faster if I boot it 

 

This is starting to enter the realms of the supernatural, how can booting the car affect the clutch hydraulics?

[Swainyhd]

1 minute ago, sepulchrave said:

 

This is starting to enter the realms of the supernatural, how can booting the car affect the clutch hydraulics?

Again confusing right? It has an uprsted LUK clutch to help counter the 210hp but thats all I can think of, unless its the uprated clutch causing the issue described? I literally purchased the car on Tuesday not much detail was given prior to that it was in Wales around 300 miles from me however the problem apparently started happening to the previous owner after MOT which led me to believe it was a seal somewhere but all lines are dry

[sepulchrave]

Have you tried pressure bleeding it, normal pedal pumping won't shift an airlock.

[Swainyhd]

11 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

Have you tried pressure bleeding it, normal pedal pumping won't shift an airlock.

Have tried bleeding through small amounts of air but no difference 

[Swainyhd]

7 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

Have you tried pressure bleeding it, normal pedal pumping won't shift an airlock.

Just to add some extra info tried the slave cylinder method to see if its that that had gone and the result came back negative have actually found a perished seal on the master cylinder so hoping this solves the issue otherwise the whole hydraulic clutch system will be replaced, if that fails a new DMF and Clutch will be put in as well expensive stuff especially the uprated clutch 

[Swainyhd]

11 hours ago, Swainyhd said:

Have tried bleeding through small amounts of air but no difference 

After some digging in the cars paperwork the master cylinder was replaced in december just gone so i'm very skeptical about that fixing the issue suggested above is a potential airlock so instead of replacing the cylinder I shall bleed it through again with an eezibleed kit and see if that does it any further advice on this is appreciated!

[sepulchrave]

33 minutes ago, Swainyhd said:

After some digging in the cars paperwork the master cylinder was replaced in december just gone so i'm very skeptical about that fixing the issue suggested above is a potential airlock so instead of replacing the cylinder I shall bleed it through again with an eezibleed kit and see if that does it any further advice on this is appreciated!

 

You have to use an Eezibleed, the air bubbles float to the highest point and the bleed nipple is down low so you have to pump almost the entire line through to purge all the air, I did mention this earlier chap.

[Swainyhd]

7 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

 

You have to use an Eezibleed, the air bubbles float to the highest point and the bleed nipple is down low so you have to pump almost the entire line through to purge all the air, I did mention this earlier chap.

Yes I had previous bled it at around 2 psi so i shall try the kit today

[Swainyhd]

So bleeding it with pressure didn't work I reckon it's gonna be a pressure plate problem so, valeo luk or sachs what do you guys recommend for 320ftlb of torque or more?

 

[duck]

Don't see why the pressure plate would affect the hydraulics loosing pressure.

 

Sachs SRE is the best clutch.

[LB123]

My experience of ezibleed is the flow  is gentle and not good at moving small airlocks and bubbles. I would certainly use it but add in a couple of full pedal depressions and a few stamps on the pedal while you use it. These tend to fill the master cylinder better if the system is dry and dislodge bubbles if the are stuck in awkward corners. Also you need to bleed through a decent volume. You're describing a hydraulic problem. The solution must be in the hydraulic system, not mechanical.

[Swainyhd]

9 hours ago, LB123 said:

My experience of ezibleed is the flow  is gentle and not good at moving small airlocks and bubbles. I would certainly use it but add in a couple of full pedal depressions and a few stamps on the pedal while you use it. These tend to fill the master cylinder better if the system is dry and dislodge bubbles if the are stuck in awkward corners. Also you need to bleed through a decent volume. You're describing a hydraulic problem. The solution must be in the hydraulic system, not mechanical.

I would have thought so as well however the clutch was done quite some time ago now its had a new master cylinder passed the slave cylinder test the only thing left that I haven't done is a full fluid change from what I can tell its either never been done or a seal has perished and turned into this murky black fluid 

[Swainyhd]

So i've found out some new information, the clutch currently in my car is apparently a VR6 clutch, theres no evidence to support this however, i'm perhaps wondering if i should pair the vr6 clutch with a vr6 master cylinder as well then? 

[rum4mo]

If you are genuinely find black murky looking brake/clutch fluid coming out of any bleed valve then something is bad, maybe it is overdue a fluid change brake and clutch.

 

Can you get someone to closely check the level in the reservoir, if the clutch master cylinder is to blame (was it a new one that was fitted a few months ago, or just one that was lying around?) as when the piston is pressed down a small amount of fluid is taken from the reservoir and then if under pressure it is passing back over the seal in the master cylinder, the fluid level should rise back up to where it was initially when the clutch pedal was up.  

 

Though probably you will not see much movement as the volume of fluid moved by the clutch master cylinder is so small, works okay for brake systems though as the volume is higher - in other words just stick with your replacement of the master cylinder as the easiest and cheapest option - as well as renewing all the systems fluid.

[Swainyhd]

16 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

If you are genuinely find black murky looking brake/clutch fluid coming out of any bleed valve then something is bad, maybe it is overdue a fluid change brake and clutch.

 

Can you get someone to closely check the level in the reservoir, if the clutch master cylinder is to blame (was it a new one that was fitted a few months ago, or just one that was lying around?) as when the piston is pressed down a small amount of fluid is taken from the reservoir and then if under pressure it is passing back over the seal in the master cylinder, the fluid level should rise back up to where it was initially when the clutch pedal was up.  

 

Though probably you will not see much movement as the volume of fluid moved by the clutch master cylinder is so small, works okay for brake systems though as the volume is higher - in other words just stick with your replacement of the master cylinder as the easiest and cheapest option - as well as renewing all the systems fluid.

Did have a brand new cylinder sachs master cylinder to be precise clutch fluid is gonna be changed very soon as well 

[sepulchrave]

1 hour ago, Swainyhd said:

So i've found out some new information, the clutch currently in my car is apparently a VR6 clutch, theres no evidence to support this however, i'm perhaps wondering if i should pair the vr6 clutch with a vr6 master cylinder as well then? 

 

So it's had a SMF conversion? A standard VR6 clutch won't handle 320 ft/lb torque so that was a stupid idea if true.

 

I hate to bring this up but it's all starting to sound a bit messy, if a VR6 clutch and flywheel has been bodged in there then the VRS slave cylinder probably isn't throwing far enough to bridge the gap fully.

 

Is there an inspection cover anywhere on the bellhousing where you can sneak a peek with a bright torch?