England EV Charging points, a proposal. & location & news on new charging hubs in England & Wales.

[wyx087]

Not quite new hubs. But Instavolt joins Octopus Electroverse today. They now appear as compatible chargers (with bigger circle) in on the Electroverse map. 

 

[lol-lol]

3 hours ago, wyx087 said:

Not quite new hubs. But Instavolt joins Octopus Electroverse today. They now appear as compatible chargers (with bigger circle) in on the Electroverse map. 

 

 

The Octopus goes from strength to strength !

 

[Luckypants]

UK now has over 50000 public charge points. That is more than there are petrol pumps. The roll-out is increasing in speed.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/uk-installs-50-000th-charger-network-to-reach-100-000-by-august-2025

On a practical level, I no longer think about charging in the UK unless I am going to the boonies (think Llyn Peninsular or similar) and I'd think about where to get petrol if going such places. As long as i'm prepared to pay the price, I can charge wherever I need to. My reason for planning charge stops now is price, where Tesla remains my preferred choice. Once Gridserve et al get a charge hub into every MSA, focus should shift to cheap AC charging facilities for those without private parking IMHO. 

[cheezemonkhai]

Shame some companies are hacking the prices through the roof.  
 

We got an update from shell that prices are now north of 80p /kWh, which means she’ll (and others) are now emergencies only.

 

At this rate they’ll price themselves out of the market or if they all do it, substantially shrink that market.

[wyx087]

Hum.... Shell...... an oil company. I wonder why they are pricing themselves out of the market or want to slow down EV adoption.

 

Just wait for news articles and bait-tuber on shocking cost of running EV.

 

 

[Luckypants]

1 hour ago, cheezemonkhai said:

At this rate they’ll price themselves out of the market or if they all do it, substantially shrink that market.

Shell can do one as far as I'm concerned. Tesla will disrupt the charging market like it has the car market. All their new sites will be V4 Superchargers and will be open to all (with contactless payment) - currently they are 15-20p cheaper than nearest rivals and 30p cheaper than Shell! The other CPOs will have to get prices down or suffer the consequences. Tesla are now selling V4 superchargers to other charger networks and apparently these cost a lot less that a similar spec charger from other manufacturers, so expect to see more entrants to the charger market and with that comes competition.

Edited 15 November, 2023 by Luckypants
spelling

[cheezemonkhai]

8 minutes ago, Luckypants said:

Shell can do one as far as I'm concerned. Tesla will disrupt the charging market like it has the car market. All their new sites will be V4 Superchargers and will be open to all (with contactless payment) - currently they are 15-20p cheaper than nearest rivals and 30p cheaper than Shell! The other CPOs will have to get prices down or suffer the consequences. They are now selling V4 superchargers to other charger networks and apparently these cost a lot less that a similar spec charger from other manufacturers, so expecct to see more entrants to the charger market and with tha comes competition.

Fine by me as long as they properly support 800V charging up to around 300kW.

 

I have an 800V car, and the next one will be 800V as well, because it makes such a huge difference to the time at chargers.

[cheezemonkhai]

33 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

Hum.... Shell...... an oil company. I wonder why they are pricing themselves out of the market or want to slow down EV adoption.

 

Just wait for news articles and bait-tuber on shocking cost of running EV.

 

 

They’re far from the only ones. InstaVolt are pretty expensive too.

 

I’ve now added Tesla for non Tesla charging as a backup option.

[Ootohere]

I paid some ridiculous prices to buy electricity from rapid public chargers in the past 3 month.

 

Home tariff 21 pence a kWh, 20 kWh getting 3.5 miles k/wh.   

  70 miles £4.20

 

Sometimes i am only buying between 10-20 kWh, at free or cheap then maybe 25 kWh depending on if a 45 minute or 60 minute max charging time.

 

Perth & Kinross & Stirling Council,      35 pence.     70 miles £7.00        Several times.

Angus Council,                                        41 pence.     70 miles £8.20         Several Times.

Aberdeen & Aberdeenshire Council.  47 pence       70 miles £9.40        Several times.

Tesla non Tesla                                       51 pence.      70 miles £10.20      x3

Edinburgh City Council.                         55 pence.      70 miles £11.00      X 4

Tesco PodPoint.                                      62 pence      70 miles £12.40      X4

LIDL PodPoint.                                        65 pence      70 miles  £13.00      X4

BP Pulse                                                   69 pence      70 miles  £13.80     Twice.

Evyve.                                                        75 pence.      70 miles  £15.00      X3

InstaVolt.                                                  75 pence.      70 miles  £15.00      Twice. 

Osprey.                                                     79 pence.      70 miles   £15.80      Once.

 

South Ayrshire Council Free, used quite often.   70 miles.  £0.00.  Had thousands of miles from them in 3 years.

Tesco PodPoint, taking 2 kW for free quite often.   Thousands of miles from Free Charging.  Dito

Other Charge Place Scotland Free Charging quite often.   Dito Dito.

Edited 15 November, 2023 by Rooted

[Luckypants]

18 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Fine by me as long as they properly support 800V charging up to around 300kW.

 

I have an 800V car, and the next one will be 800V as well, because it makes such a huge difference to the time at chargers.

But all you need is for price competition to force down prices at 800V chargers to benefit. The V4 SC is rated to 1000V, but I do not know if they are throttled to approx. 400V for the moment.

[wyx087]

All current Tesla V4 installs are still using V3 cabinets, meaning they are all still 250 kW using 400v at 600 odd amps.

 

They've only updated the stalls to allow better compatibility with cars with longer cable. The stall may be compatible at mega volts/speed for future upgrades.

[Ootohere]

MFG pricing for EV charging 79 pence kWh is quite some price.  They are getting customers at their chargers.

Maybe the chancellor can do something in the Autumn Budget Announcement to help private drivers with the cost of public charging via the VAT rate. 

[Luckypants]

27 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

All current Tesla V4 installs are still using V3 cabinets, meaning they are all still 250 kW using 400v at 600 odd amps.

 

They've only updated the stalls to allow better compatibility with cars with longer cable. The stall may be compatible at mega volts/speed for future upgrades.

I'm sure that is not true, the V4 cabinet is completely different to V3, including a longer cable to allow non-Tesla cars with right side charge ports to charge without blocking an extra charger.  Take a look at this video of Trentham Gardens SC site, where a bunch of V4s have been installed next to V3 chargers and the difference is stark.
 

 

[wyx087]

I think we have our terminology crossed.

 

Stalls = the visible charging bits that has been changed from red U shape to giant slab of white.

Cabinets = the AD-DC power conversion electronics housed nearby, hidden away.

 

Yes, stalls have been upgraded. But early report is that cabinets have not been upgraded to support 800v or more amps.

 

This article talks about V4 delivering same V3 power:

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-v4-supercharger-speed-cable-length/

 

But this newer article says V4 are 350kW, no confirmation what voltage it is able to output:

https://electrek.co/2023/07/26/tesla-confirms-supercharger-v4-350-kw-output/

[wyx087]

Free ultra-rapid charging at a new hub in Manchester:  (this week)

 

Edited 15 November, 2023 by wyx087

[Ootohere]

[Luckypants]

34 minutes ago, wyx087 said:

I think we have our terminology crossed.

 

Stalls = the visible charging bits that has been changed from red U shape to giant slab of white.

Cabinets = the AD-DC power conversion electronics housed nearby, hidden away.

 

Yes, stalls have been upgraded. But early report is that cabinets have not been upgraded to support 800v or more amps.

 

This article talks about V4 delivering same V3 power:

https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-v4-supercharger-speed-cable-length/

 

But this newer article says V4 are 350kW, no confirmation what voltage it is able to output:

https://electrek.co/2023/07/26/tesla-confirms-supercharger-v4-350-kw-output/

Thanks for the clarification. I tend to forget that the power electronics for Tesla chargers are remote from the plug. I'd have thought new V4 installations would have power electronics capable of being upgraded to supply 600A/1000V at least but who knows without Tesla publishing specs. the second article mentions a planning application for 16 V4 SC with output of 350kW. The maximum possible under the CCS2 standard for 400V cars is about 250kW (400Vx600A), so to go higher will need higher voltage. Both articles mention the plated max. current to be 600A, so I would expect at least 600V capability. I suspect any 350kW V4 will support 800V. Pretty exciting stuff.

Edited 15 November, 2023 by Luckypants

[cheezemonkhai]

9 hours ago, wyx087 said:

All current Tesla V4 installs are still using V3 cabinets, meaning they are all still 250 kW using 400v at 600 odd amps.

 

They've only updated the stalls to allow better compatibility with cars with longer cable. The stall may be compatible at mega volts/speed for future upgrades.

So essentially we’re probably limited to around 120kW, but for occasional stop off it should give a decent charge in 30 minutes.

 

When the do support 800v, we would be on an 15 minute charge to compete with ionity etc.

 

I do agree i just need the silly money vendors with 350kW chargers to feel the competition and get back down to sub 50p and ideally even lower.

 

It is a shame that Tesla have made some interior design choices I just couldn’t live with (touchscreen and lack of stalks now)

[domhnall]

On 15/11/2023 at 10:41, Rooted said:

I paid some ridiculous prices to buy electricity from rapid public chargers in the past 3 month.

 

Home tariff 21 pence a kWh, 20 kWh getting 3.5 miles k/wh.   

  70 miles £4.20

 

Sometimes i am only buying between 10-20 kWh, at free or cheap then maybe 25 kWh depending on if a 45 minute or 60 minute max charging time.

 

Perth & Kinross & Stirling Council,      35 pence.     70 miles £7.00        Several times.

Angus Council,                                        41 pence.     70 miles £8.20         Several Times.

Aberdeen & Aberdeenshire Council.  47 pence       70 miles £9.40        Several times.

Tesla non Tesla                                       51 pence.      70 miles £10.20      x3

Edinburgh City Council.                         55 pence.      70 miles £11.00      X 4

Tesco PodPoint.                                      62 pence      70 miles £12.40      X4

LIDL PodPoint.                                        65 pence      70 miles  £13.00      X4

BP Pulse                                                   69 pence      70 miles  £13.80     Twice.

Evyve.                                                        75 pence.      70 miles  £15.00      X3

InstaVolt.                                                  75 pence.      70 miles  £15.00      Twice. 

Osprey.                                                     79 pence.      70 miles   £15.80      Once.

 

South Ayrshire Council Free, used quite often.   70 miles.  £0.00.  Had thousands of miles from them in 3 years.

Tesco PodPoint, taking 2 kW for free quite often.   Thousands of miles from Free Charging.  Dito

Other Charge Place Scotland Free Charging quite often.   Dito Dito.

 

don't forget you're using rapid chargers that start at around £38,000 (max £1000 at home) and then you need to factor in VAT at 20% (5% at home), grid connection charges (zero at home), back office and telecoms charges (zero at home), and card fees (zero at home) and also commercial electricity tariff (a lot higher than residential tariffs). That's why most charge poiint operators have yet to make a profit. 

 

[Ootohere]

@domhnall'Card fees' the same card fees each time you tap your card maybe in a supermarket for just a £1 purchase, or anyplace else, buying fuel etc. 

No minimum spend for years now to use plastic as back in the day.  Still 2 litre minimum fuel delivery though.

 

The UK Government are taking the p!th with the Net Zero thing.  As it is BP, Shell and others might have various divisions from the Oil & Gas and nothing to do with the Electricity & Charging infrastructure, but that is a nonsense and they have the profits and are even getting tax breaks to decommission Oil & Gas rigs, and sell off to others and take out new licenses. 

As to the cost of Electricity North of the Border, it is tied to Oil & Gas prices while it goes to waste and is not exported / bought and those that can generate it are earning to not generate.    That the whole kidology of getting to Net Zero.    The National Grid is at it, and the Chancellor is flying kites about £1,000 to those in England and Wales that could be getting pylons near to their properties.

?

Are you getting 20% VAT back on your Public Charging? 

 

BP Pulse back office is hopeless.

CPS up til the changeover was BP with the contract & supposedly doing the back office and that was SWARCO doing it for them.

 

I know what the chargers cost for the commercial businesses, and i know the £80,000 + grants that were got in Scotland for Private concerns that had chargers for their own use, put them as Out of Service and did not honour the terms they got the grants with..

The £60 million and the millions coming in now from Tax payers to some and such as others.

Perth & Kinross had the money from the EU years ago that is now being spent at Broxden park and ride.  While the chargers are down that were there.

Ingilston Park and ride is a disgrace down for 3 weeks now with the Rapids.

Hermiston is on my account for 3 x £1 where chargers did not start charging. 

Edited 19 November, 2023 by Rooted

[Ootohere]

Edited 19 November, 2023 by Rooted

[lol-lol]

3 minutes ago, Rooted said:

 

Solihull, the home of the not eco Land rovers.

 

[wyx087]

Gridserver are increasing their prices.....

https://gridserve.com/2023/11/29/pricing-adjustment-on-the-gridserve-electric-highway/

[Luckypants]

Seems counter intuitive when Tesla are applying pressure on price.

[lol-lol]

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

Gridserver are increasing their prices.....

https://gridserve.com/2023/11/29/pricing-adjustment-on-the-gridserve-electric-highway/

 

Standalone AC stays at 49p per kwh and on a 22 kW AC why would zoe owners go near the DC unless in a big rush.

 

Maybe start on DC then move to AC 22kws when charging drops at 60% mark as little advantage staying on DC.

 

Edited 30 November, 2023 by lol-lol