Potential injector failure

[Searcher]

Hello,

 

After not using my Octavia (2010, 1.6tdi S Octavia Estate, basic version) for nearly eight months, I finally decided to use it again. In between I kept the battery charged most of the time except once when it drained excessively and after recharging, power steering light came but that went away after giving a few turns to the steering.

 

I did start the car three to four times during this period and it started every time without any problem.

 

Now yesterday when I took the car out for a long drive, with a few hiccups in the beginning, it ran fine on the motorway but after about 20miles yellow coil light started flashing with engine management light came on and the car started running on three cylinders with extremely reduced power.

 

When connected to CDP+, I found three error codes:

P020400 - Cylinder 4 Injector Circuit / Open - Permanent

P047100 - Exhaust pressure sensor range/performance - Permanent

P245300 - Diesel Particulate Filter Pressure Sensor A Circuit Range/Performance - Permanent

Electrical connector to injector 4 (farthest from timing belt, just beside oil filling point) seems fine. If I remove connector of Injector 4, the engine runs with the same level vibration as it does with the connector connected on to the injector 4. To be on safe side I sprayed the connector with WD-40 but it didn’t make any difference. Could someone please suggest how to check for potential electrical faults before changing the injector? Shall any injector cleaner be of any help?

If I clean the codes, the exhaust pressure and dpf sensor error remain off for some time but Cylinder 4 injector circuit error immediately comes back with flashing coil light.  

 

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

 

 

[Searcher]

I purchased the car last December and not sure if any emission fixed was carried out but I can see from Skoda website (by using VIN) that my car is one of those affected by EA189 Service Action. Last serviced in Apr. 2017 with a stamp in the service book.

Edited 21 July, 2018 by Searcher

[Searcher]

While I am waiting for helpful fellows to reply on my original post and the method for isolating electrical/ injector fault, may I request some help on the following:

 

1. If I assume that it is injector 4 that is faulty, what size and type of spline bit shall I need for removing the injector retaining plate that holds injector 3 and 4?

2. Shall I have to remove both injectors 3 and 4 for replacing number 4?

3. From where can I move/ rotate the injector for loosening it? Any particular precaution? I did in past replaced injectors on Clio and Megane and both were easy to replace and code using CDP+.  Is there any tutorial/ video/ instruction available that are specific to this engine?

4. I assume 1.6 diesel versions of Skoda, Audi, Seat and VW all share same engine and injector. I plan to buy a second-hand unit from Bay. What make are they, Bosch or Delphi? Apart from visual symmetry, any variation in the injectors that I should be aware of? Should I use an injector that came with a vehicle after 2010 or any of them will do the job?

5. Shall I need the new copper seals and rubber washers for both the injectors (assuming I shall have to remove both 3 and 4)? If yes, what are the part numbers or sizes?

6. Shall I necessarily need a new retaining plate bolt? What torque setting I should go for?

7. Besides general spanners and tooling, shall I need any special tool for this work?

 

I just wanted to make sure that I have all bits and bobs before starting the replacement work.

 

Thanks for the assistance. 

  

[pikpilot]

Look in the boot near the big sticker for a smaller sticker showing 23R6 and the date applied. This is the "fix" label.

There is a warranty for two years after application covering eleven major components. It is called the Trust Building Measures.

Call the Skoda emissions freephone number to get a case number. They will book the car in for free diagnostics and a courtesy car if you need it.

Injector failure is not unknown after the fix and is one of the items that can be replaced free of charge.

Also check your oil level for a higher level than normal, caused by oil dilution by fuel during dpf regen.

[Searcher]

51 minutes ago, pikpilot said:

Look in the boot near the big sticker for a smaller sticker showing 23R6 and the date applied. This is the "fix" label.

There is a warranty for two years after application covering eleven major components. It is called the Trust Building Measures.

Call the Skoda emissions freephone number to get a case number. They will book the car in for free diagnostics and a courtesy car if you need it.

Injector failure is not unknown after the fix and is one of the items that can be replaced free of charge.

Also check your oil level for a higher level than normal, caused by oil dilution by fuel during dpf regen.

 

Thanks Pikpilot. I can only see on big sicker in the place where the spare tyre goes. No other sticker for 23R6. Also when I type in my VIN number on Skoda site, it says my car is affected and that I can book for a free technical fix at the nearest service centre. I assume that also confirms that the car did not have the fix applied. 

 

The oil level seems within the normal range and of reasonable colour (last oil change around 6000miles ago in March 2017 at a large dealership).

 

When I removed the engine cover, injector 3 seems quite new and shiny with very little rust compared to others. Also, the injector part number on number 3 seems carefully scraped-off!

 

If no fix was applied to my car, what is my position in terms of free fix under trust building measure? If I am not eligible to free fix then I am not interested in going to a dealership and would prefer changing the injector 4 myself and coding the same with cdp+. The only problem is that I wanted to make sure that it is the injector that is faulty and not the wiring. Also, I must have all the toolings and parts needed for the replacement.

[pikpilot]

Glad to hear your car has not had the "fix".  Do not the let them them do it. Make sure that they know that if you use a VAG garage for anything as they are under pressure to increase the number of vehicles which have the software applied and have been know to do so without asking.

Unfortunately that means you must pay for the new injector yourself. There are specialists around that can test your injector for you but better to let the take it out rather than diy. 

Some people say that once one injector fails, the others soon follow so find a good independant for advice.

Let us know how you get on.

[Searcher]

From your comments, I assume not having "fix" is good....what exact benefit for not having this fix should I expect as an owner/ user of the vehicle? especially when the fix comes with two years warranty? I usually do not keep cars for more than a couple of years so for me a 24months "Trust Building Measures" warranty seems a good deal.

 

I would prefer changing the injector myself as so far my experience of changing them in Clio and  Megane was good. The only thing that I see a bit further work would require changing the fuel filter as the top of the outer casing of the fuel filter seems rusty. I am not sure of the condition inside. However, the fact that it has regularly been serviced at main garages during its life, I assume the fuel filter casing should be fine from the inside.

 

 

[pikpilot]

There are no advantages for not having the fix, other thán the car will work as intended.

Currentlly there is a class action group of 7000+ owners taking VAG to court.

Rather than list the negative effects of the fix here, search for the Facebook page  VW Emissions Scandal  and ask to join their closed page. You will be welcome even though you (like me) have not had the fix. Judge for yourself.

Many members are worried at the frequent visits to the garage for free repairs and what it will cost once the free repairs under the Trust Building Measures run out at two years from the fix. Trade in values are low once the fix is applied.

 

Rusty oil filter housing is common. Don't bend the top lip when taking it off and it will be ok.

 

 

Also read the link, especially the posts at the bottom.

https://www.hypermiler.co.uk/dieselgate/the-volkswagon-group-is-systematically-refunding-owners-for-egr-failures-after-the-emissions-fix

 

 

Edited 22 July, 2018 by pikpilot
Link added

[Searcher]

Thanks pikpilot. That's fine. I shall not tilt the housing top while changing the filter.  Do you have any answers to the questions that I posted earlier regarding replacing the injector 4?  

[pikpilot]

2 hours ago, Searcher said:

Thanks pikpilot. That's fine. I shall not tilt the housing top while changing the filter.  Do you have any answers to the questions that I posted earlier regarding replacing the injector 4?  

 

 I do not know whether you need to code the injector in with VCDS or similar as I have not changed mine. I did note that Euro CarParts have a price reduction on injectors at the moment. I put in my reg in (1.6L TDi) and it came back with A2C59513554 as the part number at a normal price of £408.22 reduced by 15% to £344.99 BUT in addition if you buy on line you get another 35% off using code MID35. This last offer expires tomorrow night.

Here is the link:

https://www.eurocarparts.com/fuel-injection-parts

[Searcher]

Thanks for your reply and the link. I do have a tool for coding injector. I do have a good mix of spanners including a crowfoot set. Now what I need to buy is appropriately sized and type spline bit, new retaining plate bolt, injector seal and washer.      

[Searcher]

Just to update:

 

I have now replaced the injector 4 with a used unit and the car is running fine. Whether the old injector, though looks fine is repairable or not, I am not sure. Assuming the electrical part is faulty, are appropriate parts available to repair/ replace them?

 

Answers to questions that I asked earlier and that I found from replacement experience are:

 

1. Spline bit of size 8 is needed.

2. High pressure fittings are of 17mm. I used both open ended spanner and crow foot sockets but one can live with an open ended 17mm spanner. 

3. It is necessary to remove injector 3 for removing injector 4. 

4. I did use both new copper seals on both and a new retaining plate bolt. I used the rubber body again as they were fine.

 

The fact that the old injectors may have some rust on the upper part and that requires patience while wiggling and removing them, rest of the task was pretty straight forward.

 

 

[Searcher]

Hello,

 

A day ago injector 1 ended up in the same situation as that of injector 3 last time. Now I am getting the following error codes (when checked via Autocom Plus):

 

P020100 - Cylinder 1 Injector Circuit  - Permanent

P047100 - Exhaust pressure sensor range/performance - Intermittent

P245300 - Diesel Particulate Filter Pressure Sensor, Circuit Range/Performance - Permanent

 

The later two are old codes with P047100 changed from Permanent to Intermittent. The first one is the new code that arose last night while driving at Motorway.

 

I can change injector 1 as before but before doing so, I would like to clarify on the following:

 

1. Is this just a coincidence that the two injectors failed within short period of time?

2. Is there any possibility that the later two potential faults may be affecting the injectors?

3. Any checks that I can perform to rule out the other possibilities (such as wiring failure, PCM failure etc.) before changing the injector?

4. How should I tackle the later two  codes. They do not affect the driving and when the injector is working, other than EML, there is no other problem. 

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

[TCL]

Hi, did you ever resolve this?  We have Skoda Octavia 2011 and we had the EA189 fix done (can't remember when).  An injector failed in July and another has just failed.  It is not our main car and is used very little - mileage since fix is very low.

 

I did not know there were potential problems caused by the fix until I saw this.