Rain sensor loose in non-Skoda windscreen

[Hermit]

I have a problem with the rain sensor falling out of the holder which comes moulded into the back of the windscreen. Its a Pilkington screen and not branded Skoda. 

 

I purchased my 64 plate DSG Scout from Faintree in Telford in March. In the test drive I found the rain-sensing wipers were not sensing the rain at all. I was assured this would get fixed and indeed I had to wait 12 days for the part to come in and be fitted.

 

Within a month they had stopped working again and my local dealership, Furrows of Oswestry, had the car in to fix it - again. Unfortunately its been back in twice since then and the last time I could see the sensor peeling off the windscreen even as I picked the car up. They have given up and told me to go back to the seller.

 

I escalated the issue of the failing rain sensor to Skoda customer services and they kindly interceded between the Faintree  and Furrows  (who have serviced my skodas for over 12 years). Good start - but......

 

I had a call back today from them saying that because the resolution seemed to need a new windscreen they couldn't help at all - even though I have extended warranty and Skoda used car warranty in place.   Windscreens aren't covered by the warranties. The non-standard screen (fitted by Autoglass for previous owner) has a holder for the rain sensor which is too loose so it drops out. I was told I'd have to take up the issue with the selling dealership in Telford under a 'sale of goods' application to the small claims court.

 

Obviously I'm very disappointed that buying an approved car from a Skoda dealership has turned out to be no better than buying from some backstreet shark. Surely we shouldn't need to go to court to get treated fairly by a Skoda dealership?!!

 

(..or am I being unreasonable?)

[ahenners]

Not being unreasonable but an increasing number of posters seem to be having issues with the Approved Used Warranty and stuff not being covered. Myself included last year.

 

I had an issue with DAB signal when using the rear demister. Was told the fault finding diagnostic wasn't covered unless they find the issue (and it could take hours) so they wanted me to write a blank cheque, and if it was the rear windscreen (dab antenna in that) then they wouldn't replace it as the window itself was intact or not covered.

 

Would not buy another approved used Skoda. I'd expect any manufacturers approved used warranty scheme to cover almost everything faulty bar wear and tear items. It seems unless it something big goes bang then it's useless. I suspect part of the problem is dealers unwilling to push claims under this scheme in case they don't get paid and I've seen posts that suggest they don't get paid anywhere near as much as retail work.

 

How long ago did you purchase from the dealer? No harm in pushing the SOGA route but after first 6 months the onus is not on the dealer to prove the fault wasn't there at purchase. Hope you get sorted.

Edited 8 August, 2018 by ahenners

[Hermit]

I purchased the Scout at the end of March and fixing the fault was part of the sale agreement (verbal). They had an opportunity to see the clips were loose and the windscreen wasn't branded as it should. As a layman I didn't know that a Pilkington windscreen could be an issue - that could well have been OEM standard issue as far as I knew.

 

This can't be the first car to have a replacement windscreen which isn't 'Skoda' branded and yet I've not heard of this problem with the rain-sensor card slipping out of its windscreen attached clips. There was a fault with the sensor itself originally and it was replaced before I collected the car. For all I know the technician bent the clips when changing it. Thats more likely than a manufacturing fault I'd have thought.

 

I've not seen the problem clips. Is it hard to take off the housing behind the rearview mirror?

Anyone??

 

 

[SC03OTT]

9 minutes ago, Hermit said:

I purchased the Scout at the end of March and fixing the fault was part of the sale agreement (verbal). They had an opportunity to see the clips were loose and the windscreen wasn't branded as it should. As a layman I didn't know that a Pilkington windscreen could be an issue - that could well have been OEM standard issue as far as I knew.

 

This can't be the first car to have a replacement windscreen which isn't 'Skoda' branded and yet I've not heard of this problem with the rain-sensor card slipping out of its windscreen attached clips. There was a fault with the sensor itself originally and it was replaced before I collected the car. For all I know the technician bent the clips when changing it. Thats more likely than a manufacturing fault I'd have thought.

 

I've not seen the problem clips. Is it hard to take off the housing behind the rearview mirror?

Anyone??

 

 

 

On my last Mk3 I had a Pilkington screen fitted as a replacement for my OEM one.  The Autoglass technician had a bit of a job trying to fit the rear view mirror and only a few days later it fell off. Had to get the back out to replace again. 

 

Now, that’s not much help in solving our issue however, just wanted to share to show that non-OEM screens don’t seem to be 100% the same as OEM. 

[Hermit]

Thanks but but I wonder if that may have been a faulty technician rather than anything deficient in the windscreen.

 

Another thing I've noticed is that sometimes the sensor falls away so much it starts rattling terribly. I thought the sound was from behind infotainment system till I tapped the lane-assist camera housing and heard it rattle. The acoustics under the windscreen can be very deceptive. Always though you can see the sensor isn't stuck to the inside of the glass. The round aperture to the nearside (UK) of the triangular camera should be black showing sensor is glued onto the glass. I can see its peeling away with an air gap across more than half the aperture. That air gap really messes up the process of detecting water on the screen (infra-red beam I think).

[ahenners]

I had a Pilkington replacement heated windscreen via Autoglass last year. No issues with the sensor fitment, or in general with it. If it came on the car already and I didn't know to look for the Skoda logo on the glass I'd not know any different Vs OEM.

 

I think you are correct; it's down to the technician and their quality of work.

Edited 9 August, 2018 by ahenners

[Guest]

On 08/08/2018 at 19:56, Hermit said:

I have a problem with the rain sensor falling out of the holder which comes moulded into the back of the windscreen. Its a Pilkington screen and not branded Skoda. 

 

I purchased my 64 plate DSG Scout from Faintree in Telford in March. In the test drive I found the rain-sensing wipers were not sensing the rain at all. I was assured this would get fixed and indeed I had to wait 12 days for the part to come in and be fitted.

 

Within a month they had stopped working again and my local dealership, Furrows of Oswestry, had the car in to fix it - again. Unfortunately its been back in twice since then and the last time I could see the sensor peeling off the windscreen even as I picked the car up. They have given up and told me to go back to the seller.

 

I escalated the issue of the failing rain sensor to Skoda customer services....

(..or am I being unreasonable?)

 

Certainly not being unreasoable if you bought a faulty car. Perhaps it's my mistake and I'm reading this wrong BUT...  you were correctly advised to return to the supplying dealership. You say you contacted Skoda Customer Services -  why? Why not return to the supplying dealership.

 

I have to agree with Skoda Customer Services - your issue is with the supplying dealership selling you a faulty car. Have you contacted them since? Small claims is usually a last resort...  try speaking to the person who sold you the car or if they aren't available, the dealer principal.

Edited 9 August, 2018 by Guest

[Hermit]

Hi Scot - thanks for that. It's a 100mile round trip to the other dealership so I've been avoiding doing that especially as I was told to expect the same story as my local dealership came up with - the cust service guy confirmed this was their response. Thats £45 cost and most of a day.

 

Having purchased a Skoda approved car with Skoda warranty (extended and used car) I'd have hope I could use my local dealership to resolve any issues - especially as they've had a lot of money off me with servicing and repairs over the last 10+ years.

 

The situation now is that I'm told I need to visit so they can confirm the problem - but if as diagnosed locally then they won't do much to help.

 

The customer services chap suggested claiming a new windscreen on my insurance and maybe seller would pay excess. I can't imagine how I could persuade my insurer to pay for a new windscreen though. What do you reckon?

 

I have no idea what the cost of a new screen (fitted) would be? 

Anyone know??

 

[ahenners]

Can’t imagine your insurer would replace an intact windscreen. I think your only option here is through the supplying dealership under SOGA. The other dealer has pretty much confirmed it’s not covered under warranty. You mentioned the fault was there at time of purchase and there was a verbal agreement as part of the sale to rectify. You really need to get something in writing to the supplying dealer regarding the fault and take it from there.

[dunc69]

^ as above from @ahenners

 

Go back to the people who sold you the car and ensure they put it right. SOGA plus their verbal assurance it would be sorted is your starter for ten. 

 

I wish you you luck getting it sorted. 

[dunc69]

Seee here:

 

Have you just bought a second hand car from a franchised or non-franchised car dealer? If it develops a problem, you have significant rights, even if you have no warranty cover.

The Consumer Rights Act, enacted in October 2015, gives you the statutory right to reject a new or used car (or anything else) within 30 days of purchase if any fault is found.

Additionally, a reputable new or used car dealer may have signed up to ‘Alternative Dispute Resolution’ (arbitration) under an Industry Code of Practice for Vehicle Sales run by the SMMT. This used to be called Motor Codes but has now been re-named The Motor Ombudsman.

 

Hope this helps!

Edited 9 August, 2018 by dunc69

[Hermit]

Thanks Dunc. The 30 days have long gone and the rest of the car is great. The Scouts are very hard to find at £12 -15k so I'm in no hurry to ditch it for the cost of a new screen.

 

I'll mention the Motor Ombudsman so they know I know.

 

I find it hard to believe the sensor can't be held in place. I'd like a look but not sure how the cover comes off.... does it just slide down the windscreen?

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Hermit said:

Hi Scot - thanks for that. It's a 100mile round trip to the other dealership so I've been avoiding doing that especially as I was told to expect the same story as my local dealership came up with - the cust service guy confirmed this was their response. Thats £45 cost and most of a day.

 

Having purchased a Skoda approved car with Skoda warranty (extended and used car) I'd have hope I could use my local dealership to resolve any issues - especially as they've had a lot of money off me with servicing and repairs over the last 10+ years.

 

The situation now is that I'm told I need to visit so they can confirm the problem - but if as diagnosed locally then they won't do much to help.

 

The customer services chap suggested claiming a new windscreen on my insurance and maybe seller would pay excess. I can't imagine how I could persuade my insurer to pay for a new windscreen though. What do you reckon?

 

I have no idea what the cost of a new screen (fitted) would be? 

Anyone know??

 

 

Buying goods from someone a distance away has it's merits, but also has it's pitfalls when things go 'tits up'.  Why not simply phone the dealer yourself? (never a good idea to get info from a 3rd party). If there's no satisfactory answer then I'd write a letter to the supplying dealership stating exactly what's happened and ask the garage how they intend to resolve the issue. Address it to dealer pricipal and send it registered post.

 

Regarding the Autoglass replacement windscreen - that's not the fault of you local dealer nor Skoda so my thought is it would be unreasonable to expect them to sort it out. You could of course try contacting Autoglass for advice about their windscreen but tbh that's your supplying dealer's problem, not yours.

 

Regarding claiming new windscreen on your insurance?  I can't understand that line of thought at all, that's not the purpose of car insurance.  If however a stone were to hit your windscreen in line of the driver's vision (i.e. can't be repaired) or someone were to put a brick thru it - that'd be good timing.  

 

edit:  Just another thought.  You say you purchased the car in march. I wouldn't hang around because if the worst comes to the worst, the law changes 6mths after purchase and the onus is on you to prove the car was faulty when you bought it. In other words if you don't have it in writing that the sensor was faulty or any witnesses to say the salesman said they'd fix it, then all the supplying dealer has to say is the car was working when you collected it, you were happy to collect it and the fault must have occured after you collected it. It's then up to you to prove the sensor was faulty at time of sale, which could be a problem.   I'd be contacting them a.s.a.p. if I were you.

 

 

 

Edited 10 August, 2018 by Guest

[Hermit]

I normally try hard to buy local from a trust worthy source and almost never buy off some internet site. I really value the after sales service and I'm willing to pay the proper price for that.

 

With the Scout the local dealer hadn't seen one for many months and when they do show up they're often just a year old and way over my budget.

 

I thought that being a Skoda franchise and having Skoda warranty would mean I was safe and my local dealership would sort it. 

 

But you're right I do need to speak to the selling sales mgr and see what he's prepared to do. Its just that he's already told the customer services chap that they aren't planning to do much at all - and I'd have thought they would have wanted to curry favour with head-office. I raised the problem on here first because it's always better to be aware of 'known problems' or precedents having been set or even a better technical understanding. Not all those boxes ticked yet but I will call them next chance I get. I've been too busy today and I'm out from dawn to dusk tomorrow so will have to wait till Monday now.

 

I may discuss with Autoglass first to hear their perspective. They may be very familiar with such cases.

[KevC_Derby]

Having the Windscreen replaced in the vRS today at Autoglass Nottingham. Here are a few pics of the insides!

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/a80YdYz

 

 

 

Edited 18 August, 2018 by KevC_Derby
Link to imgur added and photos removed as exceeded 10mb.

[KevC_Derby]

Home now and excellent service from Autoglass. Fitted a Skoda branded St Gobain screen and all calibrated and tested in under 90 minutes.

One more photo showing the installation behind the Interior Mirror before the trim was reinstalled.

[Hermit]

Brilliant Kev. Very much appreciated. The camera looks different from my 15 model. Do you have rain sensing wipers, headlight assist and or lane assist? I wonder if just light sensor for rearview mirror and auto-headlights.

 

Are the brackets metal springs around plastic lugs stuck to the screen? 

 

I've just been away for a few days and tomorrow but I'll get onto selling dealership on Tuesday and see if we can make a deal. I'd be interested to hear Autoglass' view on it all first though.

[KevC_Derby]

Yes, I have rain sensing wipers, HBA and Lane departure.

[Hermit]

Not much of an update. 

 

I spoke to Autoglass (very obliging and helpful attitude) who reckoned there wasn't a known problem with the brackets not being right and suspected damage by the Skoda tech who changed sensor when I brought the car. Quoted £380 for a Skoda screen fitted and £680 for it fitted and calibrated. Yikes!

 

I spoke to Faintree (selling dealership) and they played cards very close to chest and need me to bring car in and leave it. Its 100mile round trip but I can see why they'd need to see and consider the problem. Hoping I can get a look too.

 

It's still all to play for. My solicitor friend says that the emails I have prove the agreement to fix the problem as part of sale. They don't have a lot of wiggle room. All I want is for my wipers to sense the rain. Maybe I can just glue it in place myself - just can't get cover to slide off the windscreen.

 

Inspection booked for two weeks time.

[Hermit]

Finally got car booked in with the dealership who sold me the car with courtesy car arranged so they could have it a while to resolve the problem... or deny responsibility.

 

Their technician Tim was absolutely brilliant. I asked him to remove the trim to show me the problem. He quickly found the sensor had two metal spring clips which would quite readily ping off the plastic bracket. The plastic bracket is glued to the inside of the windscreen and can be ordered/replaced so a change of windscreen is not needed. The plastic brackets are on back order so for now the sensor was reattached and very adhesive cloth tape over the top to help keep it attached.  The plastic bracket does also hold the 'lane assist' camera so it will need recalibrating if changed (£200+ ?).

 

To remove the trim behind the rearview mirror you prise off the small inner panel above the mirror stem and then the main section easily slides down the windscreen. Removing the small panel is hard. There are two locating pegs up towards the windscreen but either side you needs to push a blade into the gap to push clip out (see photos). I think thats the method.

 

In the end it was all resolved within an hour by a good pragmatic technician - worth his weight in gold.  

 

4 photos attached - as you can see the sensor is now covered by adhesive cloth tape and plastic wedge.

 

Hoping this will help someone else in the future.