Paco

[paco]

Hi Folks

Is anybody else concerned that damage is being done to the starting motor and battery with the constant stop start, ok its still under warranty for another 2 years but at the end of 3 years the starting motor etc has done about 20 years work surely?

[Llanigraham]

Not concerned at all, considering that the battery, starter motor and other bits are built to a different and higher standard than in a non-equipped car.

And can I make a suggestion? Instead of using your name as the subject of a thread you actually use a short description of what you are discussing, so this one could be something like "Stop/Start concerns"

[kenfowler3966]

The engine stops at exactly the right point in its cycle so that it can start near instantly, and any engineered system is designed for a suitable life expectancy. I would expect the starter motor, ring gear etc to be of a much higher quality than used in cars without this system for the large increase in use. The battery aparently costs about twice as much in a stop start car compared to a car without this.

 

If you are concerned it can always be sected off, once the car starts. I often turn the system on and off depending on the circumstances, but I do have a dsg which stops at a halt and starts again when the brake is released. I don't particualry want the engine to stop and restart whilst trying to get out of a small gap, and can't see the point of the engine stopping, when I can see we will move off again in a few seconds.

 

Different with a manual as the engine only stops when in neutral with the clutch pedal released, so much easier to control when the engine stops by itself.

[Ootohere]

Those that have had stop / start for 10 years or more would maybe be more worried if they are worried than those that have had it for only 1 year.

 

You would hope in a decade or more they had it all sussed and 'Fit for Purpose'.

Edited 29 October, 2018 by Offski

[slancas204]

What would worry me most is oil starvation for the turbo. I was always taught to let the engine idle for a short while before turning the engine off to reduce chance of damage to the turbo. Or is this old hat?!!

Must admit I still leave a few seconds of idle before switching off

[paco]

1 hour ago, Llanigraham said:

Not concerned at all, considering that the battery, starter motor and other bits are built to a different and higher standard than in a non-equipped car.

And can I make a suggestion? Instead of using your name as the subject of a thread you actually use a short description of what you are discussing, so this one could be

1 hour ago, Llanigraham said:

Not concerned at all, considering that the battery, starter motor and other bits are built to a different and higher standard than in a non-equipped car.

And can I make a suggestion? Instead of using your name as the subject of a thread you actually use a short description of what you are discussing, so this one could be something like "Stop/Start concerns"

something like "Stop/Start concerns"

 

[paco]

 

[Ryeman]

Some cars (somehow) use the alternator doubling as the starter motor.

 

(the ‘ashless’ oils don’t leave a deposit on the bearing surfaces during cooling which has eliminated the old cool down idling (and emissions) of the past)

[xman]

Batteries used for stop start are designed to be more robust than standard ones.

 

They use EFB (low end) and AGM (high end) technology.

 

https://batteryworld.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/car-battery-type-agm-efb

 

An uprated starter is used in micro hybrid stop/start (all skoda)

 

Combined alternator/starters are  used in mild hybrid upwards using HV 48+ volt system (as Audi/VW hybrids)

 

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109687_dont-start-stop-systems-wear-out-your-cars-starter

 

Modern turbos are now water cooled with an electric run on pump. If you pop your bonnet open, start and stop the engine, listen for the whir of the run on pump and observe water being pumped back into expansion tank for about a minute after the engine has stopped.

 

 

Edited 29 October, 2018 by xman

[ejstubbs]

6 hours ago, kenfowler3966 said:

I don't particualry want the engine to stop and restart whilst trying to get out of a small gap, and can't see the point of the engine stopping, when I can see we will move off again in a few seconds.

 

 

When I stop at a junction where I know I'll likely need to move off again smartly, I just blip my foot quickly off and back on the brake pedal.  The car doesn't move (because the DSG hasn't had time to let the clutch in) but it does restart the engine, and leaves it running.  Much easier than feeling around for the stop/start defeat switch, then forgetting to cancel it afterwards.

[kenfowler3966]

I don’t need to look for the switch, can hit it instantly as needed on way into a difficult junction and prefer to know the engine won’t stop in a dodgy situation. Then back on again when needed.

Yes I can lift off the brake slightly and restart, but there can be a significant delay as the engine stops and restarts making it potentially unsafe to stop briefly and go into a small gap.

Having been caught out a few times I prefer to avoid the risk.

[paco]

Thanks for all the knowledgeable replies they have eased my concerns somewhat, but I will continue to turn it off in heavy traffic and frequent stops.     

[gumdrop]

I initially had a lot of problems with the car stalling after the engine restarted when I first got this current car.

This resulted in embarrassing (and dangerous) stalls, so I just switch it off if the situation warrants it.

 

Ryman, I think the old 350cc Jawa Motorcycle had an altenator/ startermotor back in the 60s

[Llanigraham]

9 hours ago, gumdrop said:

Ryman, I think the old 350cc Jawa Motorcycle had an altenator/ startermotor back in the 60s

 

As an ex-Jawa 350 Twin owner they did not have a starter motor.
To start them you pushed the gearchange in and turned it through 180 degrees so that it acted as a kick start.

[Zarniwoop]

Back in the '60s I had a Berkeley T60 three-wheeler.  The twin cylinder two-stroke engine was equipped with a Dynastart,  which was a dynamo that also acted as a starter.  As the clutch was so fierce that you could easily stall it pulling away,  I used to use the Dynastart as a power assist/anti-stall device (it was in constant mesh,  so you could press the starter while the engine was running and get a boost).  Interesting to see that F1 cars use a version of the same idea!  ("only joking" before the techies have a go at me....)

[gumdrop]

11 hours ago, Llanigraham said:

 

As an ex-Jawa 350 Twin owner they did not have a starter motor.
To start them you pushed the gearchange in and turned it through 180 degrees so that it acted as a kick start.

I was in Derbyshire near the blue john mine when I came across a Jawa with a side car. I was looking around it when the rider

came along, he did not speak and got on the bike and I am sure he used an electric start and drove off. I must have been mistaken.

I remember the gear lever/kickstart system though.

 

8 hours ago, Zarniwoop said:

Back in the '60s I had a Berkeley T60 three-wheeler.  The twin cylinder two-stroke engine was equipped with a Dynastart,  which was a dynamo that also acted as a starter.  As the clutch was so fierce that you could easily stall it pulling away,  I used to use the Dynastart as a power assist/anti-stall device (it was in constant mesh,  so you could press the starter while the engine was running and get a boost).  Interesting to see that F1 cars use a version of the same idea!  ("only joking" before the techies have a go at me....)

I remember watching people drag the engine around  for reverse? or sticking their leg in the engine bay to kickstart the motor.

I'd better stop taking these tablets, my mind is obviously playing tricks.

Edited 1 November, 2018 by gumdrop

[Zarniwoop]

23 minutes ago, gumdrop said:

 

I remember watching people drag the engine around  for reverse? or sticking their leg in the engine bay to kickstart the motor.

I'd better stop taking these tablets, my mind is obviously playing tricks.

 

I think you remember the Bond Minicar.... one wheel at the front and prone to tipping over on its corner if you went too fast round a bend.  They had kickstarts under the bonnet,  and,  I think the engine was mounted on the front wheel which rotated 180 degrees to provide reverse.  The Berkeley was a bit more sophisticated (not much!),  two front wheels,  a sequential gearbox including reverse,  and the Dynastart.... and a front end which,  if you squinted at it through half closed eyes on a dark night,  and you conjured up all your powers of imagination,  was a tiny bit like an E-type Jag,  with its streamlined oval headlights moulded into the front wings.  I assure you there was no other resemblance!

[muddyjim]

24 minutes ago, Zarniwoop said:

 

I think you remember the Bond Minicar.... one wheel at the front and prone to tipping over on its corner if you went too fast round a bend.  They had kickstarts under the bonnet,  and,  I think the engine was mounted on the front wheel which rotated 180 degrees to provide reverse.  

 

The Bond's front wheel actually only turned left & right by 90 degrees, but this meant that it could turn round within it's own length (about 10ft). Without reverse you could drive one with only a motor cycle driving license.

 

As an option you could have the Ciba Dynastart system fitted, which allowed the 2 stroke Villiers engine to be started backwards - thus giving you reverse, with 3 reverse gears too! To have this feature though you would have to have a full car driving license. 

[Robjon]

Sorry, still off topic...

 

The reverse gear / full driving licence law changed sometime in the sixties, before I bought my Reliant.  Although the Reliant had four forward gears and one reverse, it felt more stable going backwards than when going forwards!

 

Back in the sixties, a friend had a Jawa with sidecar (on the "wrong" side).  His party piece on waste land was to get the thing moving then jump into the sidecar, controlling the bike from the seat of the sidecar.

[Zarniwoop]

30 minutes ago, Robjon said:

Sorry, still off topic...

 

The reverse gear / full driving licence law changed sometime in the sixties, before I bought my Reliant.  Although the Reliant had four forward gears and one reverse, it felt more stable going backwards than when going forwards!

 

Back in the sixties, a friend had a Jawa with sidecar (on the "wrong" side).  His party piece on waste land was to get the thing moving then jump into the sidecar, controlling the bike from the seat of the sidecar.

 

Yes,  I drove my Berkeley (with reverse gear) on my motorcycle licence.  By then I'd got fed up with getting cold and wet on motorbikes... though you could get almost as cold and wet in the Berkeley (no heater and very leaky soft top and side screens.  The floor,  on the other hand,  was watertight...so the leaky roof resulted in a pond in the footwell,  which froze in the winter).