I work from home, so as the weather is now getting a bit brassy, I need to start using the heating. Gas is noticeably cheaper per kWH than electricity but leaving the central heating on all day is not really a feasible option unless I was filthy rich...which I'm not! Last year I used a fan heater in the study which warmed it up quite quickly but has some notable disadvantages...the heat dissipates very quickly, it dries your eyes out something chronic and it's expensive to use for any kind of extended period of time. 

 

It's a 3 bed semi with 6 TRV-controlled radiators - hall, lounge and dining room downstairs and the three bedrooms upstairs (one of which is the study). The bathroom has a heated towel rail so has no TRV. 

 

One option is to use an oil-filled radiator in the study which should hold the heat a bit better but I've heard varying reports on just how economical they are. One other option I've been looking at is the HoneyWell EvoHome heating control which lets you set up zones in your house and then control what temperature each zone is kept at; this would enable me to keep the study warm without heating the whole of the rest of the house during the day. It's expensive to buy as you need the control module and then each TRV needs to be replaced with a wifi-controlled version, but it does allow you to maintain different parts of your home at different temperatures at various times throughout the day. There's also the ability to control everything via an app on your phone/tablet. 

 

I know there's Nest and Hive that offer app controlled heating, but they don't (as far as I'm aware) allow zone control, which is what I'd need.

 

Anyway, just wondering if anyone has used the HoneyWell system or something like it?

 

 

Hi,

 

We installed a similar system from Drayton last year called the Wiser which we are using in a similar way.  

 

The three heated towel rails (bathroom, ensuite, downstairs shower room) are on whenever the system calls for heat but all of the other main rooms have a TRV which has its own programmed schedule for both temperature and time of day,  For example the ones in the children's bedrooms have the heat on earlier in the evening than the Master Bedroom so they are warm when they go to bed.  Last winter the downstairs back room was kept unheated but I have adjusted the schedule for that room as we now have an au pair!  It is also using IFTTT so that when both the wife and I are out of the house the heating is put to Away Mode with a minimal set-point to keep the house ticking over.

 

Nigel 

Thanks Nigel - useful info, esp re the towel rails.

 

Once you'd got the schedules, etc programmed in, did you find the running costs were acceptable (i.e. gas bill)?

Sorry - I can't help with central heating. 

 

But swapping your fan heater for an oil-filled radiator will make little difference.  Electric heaters run at near 100% efficiency - whether fan, radiant, convector or oil-filled.  Put 1kW of electricity into any of them, and near 1kW of heat will come out of them.

1 minute ago, Robjon said:

Sorry - I can't help with central heating. 

 

But swapping your fan heater for an oil-filled radiator will make little difference.  Electric heaters run at near 100% efficiency - whether fan, radiant, convector or oil-filled.  Put 1kW of electricity into any of them, and near 1kW of heat will come out of them.

 

Thanks Robjon - that's what I was thinking. I guess the oil filled radiator simply holds onto the heat slightly longer than a fan heater as the oil and metal body heat up. Still not particularly cost effective though.

5 hours ago, slicendice said:

 

It's a 3 bed semi with 6 TRV-controlled radiators - hall, lounge and dining room downstairs and the three bedrooms upstairs (one of which is the study). The bathroom has a heated towel rail so has no TRV. 

 

 

You already have the ideal setup. Turn down or even off the TRVs in rooms you dont use, during the day or whenever. Hardly an effort, almost as easy as leaning down to turn on ultra expensive electric heater.

 

Better than any expensive NEST or IoT data stealing buII****ting tech.

5 hours ago, slicendice said:

leaving the central heating on all day is not really a feasible option

Don't really understand this. Can you not just turn the radiator valves down in areas where you don't need heat during the time you're in the office?

That would be ever so slightly tedious but would be an entirely free fix.

 

Haha, snap.

Edited 30 October, 20187 yr by Wino

If you are contemplating a thermostat set-up that costs that much then you have enough money to put your heating on.

 

 

I'm looking at these. The Hive system is very cheap at the moment (just over £100) but I'm also looking at the Netatmo controller (easy to fit and not too expensive) which allows individual control over TRVs as well as the more expensive Tado system which does everything (geofencing at a cost and TRVs etc). I'm thinking of going down the Hive or Netatmo route though simply based on cost. The Nest is a no go for me for reasons detailed in another thread.

Actually Slicendice, I've had a thought (it hurt a little but I could get used to the sensation), Currently the Hive 2 channel system is on sale for the same price as the single channel. If you have a combi boiler you probably don't need the second channel and it could be used to run a low current heater. You would have to check the current rating of the switch (very very important obviously), which I am guessing is around 3Amp but you might be able to run a 500w (just over 2 amps) heat source from it if the switch is designed for constant load and possibly add second hive controller to the room to control it, ie you set the radiator to max heat and let the Hive thermostat in the room switch it on and off. Not sure all this would work but it might be a neat solution if it does. Obviously ring Hive or speak to a Spark if you think this might be of interest If I get a Hive I might get the 2 channel version just because it gives my another timer controlled output

 

Alternatively you could get the oil radiator. I bought one several years ago for my kitchen and it has a detachable thermostat controller that works on RF. you adjust temp and power from the remote controller and it came with a little drawer that you fill with water to help with the humidity of the room. It was made by Bionaire 

 

I don't think it's made any more but here it is on Amazon so you see what it was 

Edited 19 November, 20187 yr by Lady Elanore

The 2 channel (or zoned heating) is basically a split system,  instead of having all the radiators on one circuit, have 2 circuits each with their own main switch (the thermostats)

You can then program each zone separately (a programmer clock for each system, or for techies, an app transmitting the programme)

 

The only way to do this is to drain out the system, alter the pipework and fit the extra valves, and controls

not a cheap option, and obviously not cost effective for a short term.

 

The other thing to remember is if you have TRVs, should be able to leave heating on all day as when each room is warm enough, that radiator will shut off.   If your rooms are loosing heat quickly then you should probably be querying why the insulation in them is so poor, and causing your expensive heat to leak so fast.   Work backwards from why you loose the heat you already have rather than thinking of ways to add heat.

 

You won't save anything if you then thrash the system on full for hour or two to reheat the rooms every day, instead of just letting it intermittently cut in for short periods to maintain warmth.    Radiators run for short intense periods are not good for even spread of heat in the room, so end up wasting energy (and thus cash) overheating one side of the room to offset the cool other side

 

I visited John Lewis and they price matched the Screwfix price on a single channel HIVE kit. Probably install it tomorrow  

Now fitted and running  Pairing is a bit slow and tedious, but I suspect this is because I have so much WiFi RF floating about my house you could heat a bath with the radiating power  

 

Took me 5 mins to get the hang of the website and program up the timer schedule, but if I have done it correctly then it should all work fairly simply from now on. The only issue I had is the receiver takes a few minutes to start up and log on, a bit like a slow router powering up (which I suppose in a way it is), this has a knock on of you feeling a little uncertain if things are connected and working properly. It turns out they are and I'll give it a bit of a soak test over the next few days to check I can trust it though (I;'m such a closet luddite  ) 

Glad that you have it working. I installed our twin channel first generation Hive a couple of years ago and my son has a single channel second generation. Both have worked well but I prefer using the Android Hive app to the website. I do find the "holiday" mode useful as I can set it well in advance and it works as a frost stat as well.

for me the holiday mode will be useful for work (not that my job is a holiday you understand) and I've set Frost 'stat and even push alerts for low temps (ie my boiler has packed in when I might be away from the house). I see if I want emails or text alerts I have to pay a subscription though. Anyhoo I've ordered a couple of cheapo HIVE bulbs to link into the system and I'll set up some rules for them coming on etc. I like the idea of remote dimming when I'm watching a movie or molesting George Clooney  ...or even both at the same time    

On 19/11/2018 at 13:31, Lady Elanore said:

Actually Slicendice, I've had a thought (it hurt a little but I could get used to the sensation), Currently the Hive 2 channel system is on sale for the same price as the single channel. If you have a combi boiler you probably don't need the second channel and it could be used to run a low current heater. You would have to check the current rating of the switch (very very important obviously), which I am guessing is around 3Amp but you might be able to run a 500w (just over 2 amps) heat source from it if the switch is designed for constant load and possibly add second hive controller to the room to control it, ie you set the radiator to max heat and let the Hive thermostat in the room switch it on and off. Not sure all this would work but it might be a neat solution if it does. Obviously ring Hive or speak to a Spark if you think this might be of interest If I get a Hive I might get the 2 channel version just because it gives my another timer controlled output

 

Alternatively you could get the oil radiator. I bought one several years ago for my kitchen and it has a detachable thermostat controller that works on RF. you adjust temp and power from the remote controller and it came with a little drawer that you fill with water to help with the humidity of the room. It was made by Bionaire 

 

I don't think it's made any more but here it is on Amazon so you see what it was 

 

Thanks LE...that's quite a solution!! Given that I'd probably end up blowing things (or myself) up if I tried doing something like that, I might have to resort to something more "out the box"! 

Just noticed that Hive are doing Black Friday deal on the Hive Multizone - £75!

 

Something else to spend time researching whilst I'm supposed to be working 

Best get a cup of tea if you read all of this..

 

 

I think the multizone needs you to have clever heating with control valves making heating zones in your house to start with. Netamo was a super easy solution I nearly went with as you only need to connect 2 wires in order for it to work with most central heating systems. then their eco system is quite comprehensive including wifi controlled TRV. Only trouble, like most of these systems, the cost are really high for the valves! Tado can also do the remote TRV control. Nest wouldn't have worked for me for a couple of reasons. But if you want wifi TRVs on your system you would have to have every radiator on your central heating fitted with them in order to get only one radiator open, which would be really expensive.

 

So far my Hive works really well as I've documented here  It's just a shame it doesn't do remote TRVs at the moment :( but the system is improving all the time and can now work with things like Phillips Hue. I've bought a couple of Hive lights and after a bit of a faffing to get it to work with google home (also mentioned in the above thread) they are very clever and worked within seconds with the Hive. One thing about the Hive Thermostat system, it's just a clever thermostat, it doesn't learn your routines, which is fine for me as I don't have any. The Netamo can learn how long your room takes to heat up and cool down, so after a couple of weeks of learning, it claims to be able to maintain a more constant temperature than a regular thermostat. All I know for sure it since fitting the Hive I am not sitting sweating in my living room (lovely image) as the 'stat sitting in my cool hall tries to warm up the planet. Yes I do have standard TRVs on my radiators, but they have a certain amount of lag in them and the Hive 'Stat can keep my room within about +/- 0.5 degrees. It's interesting to see the graphs the Hive produces on it's web page, too. My living room (where the 'stat lives) doesn't cool down as much through the night as I would have thought. 

 

You can buy Hive 230V mains switches for around £30-40 although I am not sure what the current rating is, I would imagine it's 13amp, but best to check obviously, but with this plug you could put a radiator on it and set it up with Hive, Google or Alexa. There are motion switches for a similar amount and Hive lets you do a sort of IFTTT recipe for it's stuff. I've made up some short cut buttons on my phone (they are automatically replicated on your web page for your Hive) for things like, all lights on, lights off, individual lights, heating at a fixed temp. So once you have Hive, you can easily set up a motion switch that would turn on a radiator in your office when you enter and keep it on for a fixed time. Also you can just ask Google or Alexa to turn it on/off for you  

 

So if you went down the Hive route for the above, you'd need a Hive starter kit £108, Switch £30-40 and motion Sensor £22 = £160-170 + heater. 

 

For me the main benefit is if I am working away on a 20 hour day, I can knock the heating off/down while I'm out and turn it back on as I return, the Hive supports Geocaching (Tado does too, but charges for it), although I doubt I'll use it much. Also on a longer job where I might be staying away, I can adjust my heating and even check on the house temp (if it read 16 degrees when it was supposed to be on, then I would know there was a problem-probably the condensate pipe frozen up again :D) Also the lights can be set to 'mimic' which sets random lights going on and off. 

 

If you have the older style of thermostat in your house, the square shaped type with a round dial, then the Hive relay will clip on to the back plate and the contacts will automatically be the right fit for it. You might have to put the jump wire in, but it's super easy (I used a bit of old mains flex I had lying around) as it's about 2 inches long and requires the use of a screwdriver for about 1 minute  Obviously turn the electrics off and check the contacts with, at the very least a mains testing device (mains test screwdrivers are about £5 or less and basic voltage testes that tell you you are dealing with 12V, 30V, 100V, 230V are a similar amount). It's not difficult to do as long as you are prepared.