Oil level difference in relation to its temperature

[Breezy_Pete]

Here's my lunchtime's work, photos are appalling and some of the levels arrows are a bit guessy, will try harder with the photography next time, was hoping they'd look OK on big screen but they really don't.

 

Doc1.docx

[Plantman]

With all that dipping you will need to top up your oil soon!! 

[Breezy_Pete]

Will go for every 3 mins next time.

 

Thanks again for your VCDS work, didn't have my laptop here today.

Edited 4 December, 2018 by Wino

[Plantman]

39 minutes ago, Wino said:

Top work, shame you didn't take data points at 1, 5 and 10 minutes  after switch off though, could I encourage you to do some more? When you see my embarrassingly poor photos shortly, I hope you'll see that (my) peak levels are seen on the dipstick between 2 and 8 minutes after shutdown, several millimetres higher than cold.

 

Sadly I had to vac the house and then get back to work so ran out of time for any further tests. For yours, did VDCS reflect this as well?  

 

Next time I head out I'll take the laptop and leave it plugged in for a bit longer and see if the values rise on there too.  How much different did yours rise by?   2, 3, 4, 5 mm?

 

You should be able to brighten the pictures up - it would blow out the light for the background but you would be able to see the oil at least.

 

 

 

 

 

[Plantman]

I think I can see what you mean.   The oil nearly reaches the top of the hashed markings so there is just one line of markings left.

 

Your cold level seems to show 3 levels of hashed markings. What is that, 3 mm or so?

[Breezy_Pete]

Sorry, no VCDS today, didn't have laptop.

Dipstick changes look to be in the +5-ish mm territory judging by my ruler shot versus max levels seen. Similar magnitude to Nidza's if the dipstick proportions are similar, but faster cool-down on mine.

 

Did you find the cold level shown by VCDS to be stable/steady from first connection time?  On my car it drops over a few minutes when the oil is cold, not too sure why

[Breezy_Pete]

2 minutes ago, Plantman said:

The oil nearly reaches the top of the hashed markings so there is just one line of markings left.

No, pretty sure it was all the way up to the start of the top bend/kink on the highest levels.

[Plantman]

3 minutes ago, Wino said:

No, pretty sure it was all the way up to the start of the top bend/kink on the highest levels.

 

Ah yes! I've just enlarged the pictures and added brightness in word and yes, the level of oil it right to the bend!  That is pretty crazy. I think that was your 8 minute picture.

 

In VCDS, that oil level was a constant 74.856 mm whilst the engine was off. I even clicked "turbo" and it didn't move.

 

I did notice it takes a long time for the oil to heat up past 6 degrees. No wonder it takes an age to reach 50+ degrees on the Maxidot! 

I will have to redline it in first gear in future to heat up the oil quicker.

 

 

 

[Plantman]

Out of interest, oil level wasn't available in VCDS under 17. Instruments but actually under 1.Engine for me under ADV Measuring Blocks.

 

I searched for 'oil' too in order to find it quicker. I miss the old measuring blocks in a way!

 

 

[Breezy_Pete]

I guess your level sensor talks to the engine ECU, where mine goes straight to the cluster.

Which of your cars were you looking at, the Octy?, and what year is it?  Wondering if your level sensor may be different technology to mine.

Wonder who's going to be the first to react about redlining it with cold oil?

[Plantman]

Yes I am waiting to see if anyone bites

 

This was with the Octavia, 2014 1.4 TSI CHPA engine.

 

I might have to do this same experiment on the wifes Fabia too

 

 

[Ootohere]

With a 1.4 TSI 132kw Twincharger or other engines with the Oil filter at the top of the engine maybe try the Zabozuma oil check.

 

Car parked on the flat.

Cold engine un-started.

Open the bonnet and dip the cold oil. Check Level.

Put the key in the ignition and start the engine and as soon as started stop it.

Go dip the Oil. Check the level.

Close the bonnet and go on your journey.

 

After at least 10 miles driving and the oil is up above 50*oC indicated or above 80*oC or what ever it gets to when you have got where you are going, 

park on the flat.

'After a few minutes' as VW say, or maybe time 4 minutes dip the oil.

 

?

Where is it on the dipstick?     

Is it just were it was with the Jabozuma Check,  0.5 litres or so difference on the dipstick, like when the Cold Oil was pumped up the engine for a few seconds.

 

 

[Plantman]

Oil temp in VCDS is identical to that of MaxiDot.

 

I performed to reading of oil levels from vcds after engine off:

 

Time 18:12
oil temp 84 degrees
oil level 77.228 mm level
Battery level 12.2 volts

 

18.17
78
77.336
12.1v

 

 

18:20

75
77.348
12.0v

 

 

18:22
73
77.216
12.0v

 

 

18:25
68
76.960
11.9

 

 

18:30
66
76.976
11.9

 

The level didn't change that much..but the battery did so I called it a night.

 

[Breezy_Pete]

Was the 18.12 reading straight after switch off?

Remarkably little level change. Almost seems improbably small.

I suppose the sensor electronics may be calibrated to take into account the expansion/contraction with temperature???

Not much temperature change in your sampled time period though.

Not much indication of a great deal of 'drain back'.

Maybe the two things just happen to cancel out with your engine?

Edited 4 December, 2018 by Wino

[vRS-Daddy]

17 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

In my experience of remap stage 1 at 7,400 miles and stage 2 at 14,800 miles I check the dipstick every month from new and the EA888 engine has needed 0.25 litre top ups of Long Life Castrol Edge every 2,500 miles or so which only costs £3 per time so hardly breaking the bank. After 17,200 miles have put in 1.75 LITRES so far and first service indicated at 18,700 miles if this helps.

It does, thanks...my top up rates of oil (Castrol Edge Professional T-FST) sound about right then post remap.

[Plantman]

1 hour ago, Wino said:

Was the 18.12 reading straight after switch off?

Remarkably little level change. Almost seems improbably small.

I suppose the sensor electronics may be calibrated to take into account the expansion/contraction with temperature???

Not much temperature change in your sampled time period though.

Not much indication of a great deal of 'drain back'.

Maybe the two things just happen to cancel out with your engine?

 

Yes engine off was at 18:12.  

 

I thought the temperature change was pretty dramatic...certainly compared to the water temps that seemed to hover around the 90 degree mark for ages.

 

Oil temperatures seemed to drop pretty quickly for me.

 

As for the oil level though, no, that seemed to stay pretty constant.

 

The only other drop was the battery, and that was with main lights off too.

 

 

[YS53]

On 04/12/2018 at 11:44, YS53 said:

Because of where we live,our parking area is on a slope,so we have to check our oil levels with a hot engine,I usually get the engine up to normal running temp during a reasonably long drive.I then leave the engine to settle for 5 - 10 mins before I check the oil level.

The only car I have ever owned where there is a really big difference between Hot/Cold oil level check is on our VW Polo 1.4 16v AUB engine,if checked cold the level is always higher than if checked Hot,I have always assumed that there are a lot of oilways etc in this engine which gradually/slowly drain down into the sump overnight.When I do oil changes I always get the correct amount out during oil  drain so I know for sure  it is not getting overfilled by doing a Hot oil level check.

The only reason I know about the difference in oil level between Hot and Cold level checks is that before I retired - the Polo was always parked on the level.

 

@Wino

Just to finish off on this earlier conversation

I did the oil and filter yesterday for the spring service,I put the old/drained oil in an empty graduated oil can and the drained amount was 3.2 Ltr,so as expected the hot engine and wait 5 mins before checking oil level technique obviously works fine,on this particular engine if I checked the oil with a cold engine then the oil level would be down a bit.

 

Quote

 

On 04/12/2018 Wino said :

do you use genuine oil filters? A filter that drains back more than it should might explain what you see?

 

 

I had a look inside the new Mann filter and it has a 'proper' coil spring valve - so (shouldn't) drain back - so still a puzzle LOL - it is the only engine I have ever noticed much difference between hot/cold oil levels.