I recently took my car in for alloy wheel refurbishment, where they used a trolley jack to take the wheel off one by one. it was discovered when I had new tyres fitted (where they do use the hydraulic system with 4 rubber pads) a couple of days later that the sill at or near the jacking point has been bent and ripped. I was told that the damage is minor and would not affect an MOT. I was also told that it would have been the trolley jack that did it cos it was metal. and yes, it's also definitely the alloy place that did it because since I bought the car, it's only been trolly jacked once by the RAC for a different tyre.

 

it is only on one of the 4 jacking  points that this has happened, the other ones have a tiny bend but no rip like this where the black lining came off and I can see some white stuff. 

 

is this an easy fix? should I go back to the alloy place and have a word with the manager to see if it he can get it at least resealed or unbent? I'm sure he'll know a bodyshop on the same industrial estate. 

 

 

For starters I wouldn't leave it unrepaired: there's a risk of rust starting which will be an MOT failure at some point.

 

That looks like the jack wasn't properly centered on the jacking point, possibly in conjunction with the car slipping a bit on the jack.

 

You'll lose nothing by talking to the alloy wheel place about getting them to cover the repair. I'd probably ask to speak directly to the manager when you go in so they're  not getting the story second hand from anyone who might have done the damage. The manager may welcome the feedback if someone they employ is not doing their job properly.

13 minutes ago, chimaera said:

For starters I wouldn't leave it unrepaired: there's a risk of rust starting which will be an MOT failure at some point.

 

That looks like the jack wasn't properly centered on the jacking point, possibly in conjunction with the car slipping a bit on the jack.

 

You'll lose nothing by talking to the alloy wheel place about getting them to cover the repair. I'd probably ask to speak directly to the manager when you go in so they're  not getting the story second hand from anyone who might have done the damage. The manager may welcome the feedback if someone they employ is not doing their job properly.

ok i will. it was the owner who put the finished alloys back on, but it was one of his lads who took the wheel off when I first went there. I'm thinking it was him, because he was also unprofessionally kicking the wheel when it was stuck instead of using a rubber mallet. 

 

this wouldn't be the first time when I've gone somewhere independent and "one of the lads" gives a completely inferior work or customer service than what the owner would do. 

 

----

 

would you know how something like this would be repaired just so I can prepare myself for any options?

Edited 16 January, 20197 yr by newskodadriver

That is why I never allow tyre places etc to touch my cars. I will remove the wheels and take them in myself. I am fed up of them jacking on sill lips, it just cannot be done without damage and the number of times I've had this happen, it common place. A car jack has a u piece that merely uses the lip as a locator to stop it sliding off and lifts on the main body behind the lip.

 

Garages and dealers also very often can't be arsed to correctly locate and adjust their 4 poster, using extra pads when required with the result the arms often end  jacking on the lips , bending or ripping them.

 

Immediately contact the culprit responsible and demand a proper  repair.

 

The lips bend and rip very easily, you can bend them back into shape using pliers. The problem is usually the paint/protection coat and galvanising often split and peel away. Needs proper repair and protection reapplied. So it wont rust and you still have the jacking point intact for use with your car jack.

5 minutes ago, xman said:

That is why I never allow tyre places etc to touch my cars. I will remove the wheels and take them in myself. I am fed up of them jacking on sill lips, it just cannot be done without damage and the number of times I've had this happen, it common place. A car jack has a u piece that merely uses the lip as a locator to stop it sliding off and lifts on the main body behind the lip.

 

Garages and dealers also very often can't be arsed to correctly locate and adjust their 4 poster, using extra pads when required with the result the arms often end  jacking on the lips , bending or ripping them.

 

Immediately contact the culprit responsible and demand a proper  repair.

 

The lips bend and rip very easily, you can bend them back into shape using pliers. The problem is usually the paint/protection coat and galvanising often split and peel away. Needs proper repair and protection reapplied. So it wont rust and you still have the jacking point intact for use with your car jack.

ok thanks. do you have a picture of what the jacking point looks like on a skoda superb? that picture was taken from the side, I didn't walk underneath the car or anything yesterday. I was told that the jacking point was around the general area, but all I could see from the side was a "lip" or "side skirt" metal that is bent. 

 

I actually didn't know what a sill was or what a jacking point is supposed to look like. 

The official jacking points for people using professional lifts are on the main floor well in board of those lips. You'd have to consult the workshop manuals (available free if you google) to see exactly where.

 

The lips are where the side panels are joined and welded to the floor pan. Car manual shows you how to find and use jacking points with the car supplied jack.

3 minutes ago, xman said:

The official jacking points for people using professional lifts are on the main floor well in board of those lips. You'd have to consult the workshop manuals (available free if you google) to see exactly where.

 

The lips are where the side panels are joined and welded to the floor pan. Car manual shows you how to find and use jacking points with the car supplied jack.

so unofficial jacking points are for people using a trolley jack?

 

they have a round thing, from looking at google pictures, I couldn't see a U shape properly. you're saying that a trollyjack is supposed to have the sill lip inserted into a groove somewhere??

 

sorry, I don't know how they work. 

I have had a tyre place jack the car on the sill lips which I wasn't pleased about.  Didn't cause any metal damage but it did puncture the underseal so I bought a tin of that black Waxoyl underseal stuff and re-did the sealing at the lip at each jacking point.  I have checked it each time its been near a garage and top up if needed.  My car has the 'Outdoor' underbody protection and I believe there are plastic 'plugs' which should be removed to access the jacking points but unsurprisingly I don't think they have ever been removed...!

14 minutes ago, newskodadriver said:

so unofficial jacking points are for people using a trolley jack?

 

they have a round thing, from looking at google pictures, I couldn't see a U shape properly. you're saying that a trollyjack is supposed to have the sill lip inserted into a groove somewhere??

 

sorry, I don't know how they work. 

 

Trolley jacks should not be used on lips, there are add on rubber pads with grooves that some people use (mainly diy), but the sill is NOT the place for a professional to lift a car. The sill lip jacking point is ONLY for emergency use by the driver using the supplied car jack which is shaped to go around the lip.

 

Your alloy wheel place damaged your car, they are responsible and should repair it at the very least.

 

Tip: any time you take your car into somewhere that will jack it up for repairs, servicing, wheels etc., take dated photos or video of the sill lips etc as evidence of their condition should they be damaged and the culprits deny responsibility 

4 minutes ago, xman said:

 

Trolley jacks should not be used on lips, there are add on rubber pads with grooves that some people use (mainly diy), but the sill is NOT the place for a professional to lift a car. The sill lip jacking point is ONLY for emergency use by the driver using the supplied car jack which is shaped to go around the lip.

 

Your alloy wheel place damaged your car, they are responsible and should repair it at the very least.

 

Tip: any time you take your car into somewhere that will jack it up for repairs, servicing, wheels etc., take dated photos or video of the sill lips etc as evidence of their condition should they be damaged and the culprits deny responsibility 

So a trolley jack is suppose to put behind the lip on a flat piece of metal? In the same place that a better equipped garage would do 4 at a time on hydraulics with rubber pads? 

 

So it is possible to use a metal trolley jack without rubber pads and not damage the car? 

 

And do I have a car jack where the spare wheel is? I've never noticed. 

A trolley jack and professional garage lifts have arms with circular pads, these may have small flanges (raised lips at the edges) to provide extra safety of vehicle not sliding off.   These should lift at point inboard of the sill

 

The emergency car jack, and home scissors jacks have a slot which allow the sill join to not take any weight,  it supports the metal either side of join, an example is here (just an example, easy to find photo quickly,  not a recommendation to buy)

 

https://www.robertdyas.co.uk/hilka-1-5-tonne-scissor-jack?istCompanyId=bf3344d9-83f5-4abd-b69a-da131f7567d1&istItemId=-xplmpxqawq&istBid=tzxx&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImdjM37fy3wIVjrvtCh2TCQdSEAQYBCABEgIyPvD_BwE

 

 

 

31 minutes ago, newskodadriver said:

So a trolley jack is suppose to put behind the lip on a flat piece of metal? In the same place that a better equipped garage would do 4 at a time on hydraulics with rubber pads? 

 

So it is possible to use a metal trolley jack without rubber pads and not damage the car? 

 

And do I have a car jack where the spare wheel is? I've never noticed. 

Usually it's the attachment point of the subframe underneath the car.

The alloy place repaired it. They used some clipper / clamping tools and sealant wax. Apparently they used to be a body shop so had the tools. 

 

Only possible issue is they have no ramps and the guy needed clearance to get underneath for the angle of the tools. 

 

I took a picture when he went inside to get the sealant wax. When I asked him he says it's on the suspension arm / Bush. The wheels are still touching the ground, not sure if it makes any difference. He said he does it all the time especially on newer cars like Mercedes etc where the jacking points are full of plastic and he can't use his trolly jack properly. 

 

Would this knock out wheel alignment or anything like that? 

That looks like a very bad place to jack.....

 

Can't he read? Look at the label!!!

Edited 18 January, 20197 yr by xman

4 minutes ago, xman said:

That looks like a very bad place to jack.....

 

Can't he read? Look at the label!!!

So this is very bad? 

 

I don't think I'll ever take my car again to somewhere that doesn't have hydraulic ramps again 

If he's jacking at the attachment point on the subframe it should be fine. If he's jacking on the control arm then it would be a problem. It's hard to tell in the picture where exactly it's located.

12 minutes ago, chimaera said:

If he's jacking at the attachment point on the subframe it should be fine. If he's jacking on the control arm then it would be a problem. It's hard to tell in the picture where exactly it's located.

Sole point of contact as far as I could see. Because the metal on the car is at an angle and the jack is flat. 

 

I'm also struggling to understand what an axle beam is. Or if the superb is fixed? Or something. 

 

This is the reason why I take my car generally to dealership as much as possible, I have no idea how cars work. 

Edited 18 January, 20197 yr by newskodadriver

Yeah, that looks like the control arm is taking the weight rather than the attachment point. Not a great idea.

He's jacking under the bush.

 

! WARNING No Jacking or Tie down on this Rear axle beam

 

Too late, any damage already done. 

 

 

 

Just now, chimaera said:

Yeah, that looks like the control arm is taking the weight rather than the attachment point. Not a great idea.

So, the conclusion is neither the lads or the owner can jack a car up properly?

 

How do you go about checking for damage 

 

 

Where he jacked is one of the better places he could have done in terms of damage. The real risk is putting the jack in the middle of the control arm and bending or denting it. Where he jacked it there, the main thing I'd worry about is damage to the coating on the control arm, which would allow it to rust and shorten its life. The other big risk, because the jack is against a sloped surface, is that the car would slip sideways on the jack and hurt someone.

Just now, chimaera said:

Where he jacked is one of the better places he could have done in terms of damage. The real risk is putting the jack in the middle of the control arm and bending or denting it. Where he jacked it there, the main thing I'd worry about is damage to the coating on the control arm, which would allow it to rust and shorten its life. The other big risk, because the jack is against a sloped surface, is that the car would slip sideways on the jack and hurt someone.

The wheel never left the ground so it wouldn't have slipped. 

 

What is the rear axle beam exactly? You called it a control arm. Xman said it was underneath the bush. The stick says something else. 

 

Will ask the dealership garage to check the arms when it's due back in on Monday for unrelated trip. 

 

This overall has not been a good experience for me. 

4 minutes ago, newskodadriver said:

 

How do you go about checking for damage 

 

A visual check by a skilled qualified mechanic possibly.

 

Just hope it hasn't. Forget about it and don't go back there again. 

 

As I said earlier, many places do not know how to jack a car. Many times I've argued with tyre fitters bending rear axle beams, who invariably say, "I've been doing this job for years and never had any problems", to which I say " Because your customers don't see the damage you've done and only wonder why their rear tyres wear unevenly many months later.

The "beam" on the right going out to the right swings up and down, where he jacked was the pivot point. 

At risk of squashing the circular housing. However it will probably be alright if too much weight wasn't applied, just shouldn't be done.

I get annoyed when places do this. Had a problem on my old car from a tyre change place causing damage to the sill.

 

Is there some fool-proof instruction Superb owners should give these places to tell them where to correctly jack the car?