Well, rapid is means rapid charging. After 30min most EV's would be near 80%, enough to drive on to next charger.

 

Taxi are problematic, they sit on chargers during their break to get as high SoC as possible, charging very slowly a lot of the time.

 

I, for one, like the 30min max stay. It makes splash and dash a lot easier.

We might hear soon how MITIE employees working in Edinburgh are going to get on with their EV's now that that they are limited to 30 minutes charging at public CPS chargers.

Their bosses seem to have not told them there is a £30 penalty for staying on the charger over 30 minutes.

http://news.mitie.com/news/mitie-celebrates-electric-vehicle-milestone-in-edinburgh-but-calls-for-additional-infrastructure

 

https://edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/msp-who-drives-electric-car-23573293

 

https://speakev.com/threads/charge-place-scotland.168732/page-2

 

 

@wyx087Is this London you are experiencing which is a whole different country from Scotland and a world away from much of England as well?

 

Really you need to speak to more taxi drivers ( Black /White Hybrid Cab or Wheel Chair Accessible EV Cabs and ones that have airports as their area of work or even just the likes of Edinburgh. 

I used to get peed off at the ones sitting 90 minutes and refusing to come off the free chargers, but they need more than 30 minutes as they know and anyone that has driven one.

As it is they are now going to lose time over and above any 'breaks' they are due to take. 

 

There are people arriving in the Capital City of Edinburgh and that are now going to have to find Commercial Chargers and pay and get some range to get to another area of the country, be that north, south, east or west.

It is not about not paying, it is about all the hubs being built which there are plenty but it is grid lock traffic and getting to these Park & Ride type hubs when all you want is to get someplace.

Last night i spent hours trying to get a charge & enough charge at public chargers.

 

My car would take 60 minutes to get in 33 kWh and it did.

I charged twice, and the chargers would not start on the APP or the CPS Card and i used my Credit Card. 

 

The people with a Vauxhall EV van are driving into work using the public chargers and needing to get on for the day with a 50 or 75 kW battery.

30 minutes is no use to them.

The Taxis need 50 minutes on the 50 kW charger and they have hybrids. 

 

I had to go one one charger for 30 minutes then come off and move to another to get enough to get home without charging on route where the chargers are unreliable.

 

People are in for a damn shock ones they see what Edinburgh City Council have done. 

 

................

Free is an issue and no overstay penalty, but 60 minutes or 70 minutes is what so many need to get on with journeys.

Like Stirling Park & Ride and the muppets that were on the 4 Rapids for hours and the cars no longer charging.

At least the Council Vehicles are now sitting on the 7 kW chargers overnight etc. 

 

The 4 Rapids are the furthest away.

The likes of these are just a farce for people that need to charge and go. 

 

Fine for those leaving cars / vans / mini buses all day.

Edited 6 May, 20224 yr by roottoot

 

6 hours ago, roottoot said:

My car would take 60 minutes to get in 33 kWh and it did.

Out of interest, after 30min, what was your car's state of charge? How fast was it charging for the second 30 minutes?

Could it have achieved similar on a nearby AC post after initial 30min rapid?

 

I understand it's still early days and you may need close to 100% to get to next charger. But one has to remember many cars at near top SoC will slow down by a lot, possibly wasting other people's time.

 

End of the day, as I've always said, a time-based fee structure will throw the whole argument out of the window. It works for everyone in all cars without arbitrary limits. People waiting and people charging are fully aware of the costs of overstaying beyond the fastest charging period of the car. Everyone is treated equal for the amount of time they spend on the rapid chargers.

 

6 hours ago, roottoot said:

The people with a Vauxhall EV van are driving into work using the public chargers and needing to get on for the day with a 50 or 75 kW battery.

30 minutes is no use to them.

The Taxis need 50 minutes on the 50 kW charger and they have hybrids. 

I would argue in that case, the EV isn't suitable if they can't charge at home or the EV can't charge at faster rate. Sitting around for an hour every single day waiting for charge is totally wasteful of a working resource.

Plenty Joiners, plumbers, electricians, painters, cleaners, carpet layers etc etc that work for Mitie or others do not all live where the can charge at home but get to take home their work vehicle and then travel back to where ever they are working.   Charging from the 20% that you start charging is quick enough but if you have a 45kW useable battery vehicle and you have 30 miles range showing and need 120 miles range to be able to maybe get to the next charger you want in another 25 kWh or more in & you can not get that on a 50 kWh charger.

 

If you have a 7kW on board charger and you want to get to full or near full, 98/99 % then you will be near an hour.

Just a bit quicker maybe if you have an 11kW charger.

The worst thing is not being able to get Rapids started on CCS yet a car with CCHAdeMO pulls up and the chargers starts no issue.

So you go on the 7kW charger to get enough charge so that you can move on or you hope they are doing a short charge and you get the charger to work for you when they finish.

 

If you have 100 miles to go to someplace with passengers and it normally takes 2 hours in an ICE it is not too much to expect to be able to set off in an EV & get to the likes of Edinburgh Airport and then charge for 60 minutes and at least get enough charge to be able to do a return journey.

6  rapids and people pulling in and charging for 30 minutes and then unplugging and playing musical chairs to plug in again at another charger is ridiculous, or having to go off to find a commercial charger someplace. 

 

 

Edited 7 May, 20224 yr by roottoot

PS

I was talking to a TESLA Model 3 Taxi Driver (Private hire car) @ Edinburgh Airport Park & Ride.

He had free Tesla Super Charging but the Super Charger @ the Airport is out of order so he was sitting paying 35 pence a kWh on one of the 4 22kW chargers that let you charge for 3 hours.

He was very very peed off. 

 

 

£50 Million of the UK & EU's public money to provide what is a pretty pathetic infrastructure so far is because there are too many that were creaming money off the top like those providing the Back Room IT and the supposed maintenance.

 

Lets hope the next £60 million is spent more wisely and monitored a lot more closely and that those not providing a proper public charging network lose their contracts.

Edinburgh is now spending lots of money on the charging network but have put so many off EV's already.

They have not been deprived of money up til now, they have just mismanaged it. 

 

.................................................................................................................

DUNDEE Council put a pretty sensible pricing system in place.   They do charge more for visitors than local Council Tax Payers though. But that is abused by cheats.

Highland Region has a 45 Minute max charging time in place which is not great but works better than 30 minutes.

 

People do have places to be, people to see and can not always be charging between destinations or luckily be at peoples homes with chargers.

 

 

 

Edited 7 May, 20224 yr by roottoot

Charge Place Scotland charge point tariffs.

https://chargeplacescotland.org/charge-point-tariffs

 

It was in 2014 that SWARCO's EV Hardware took over APT / e-Volt, not in 2018.

 

 

2018.

 

 

Edited 8 May, 20224 yr by roottoot

 

 

On 01/04/2022 at 17:26, Luckypants said:

And so Scotland aren't left out of the year end rush to install new chargers, FastNed have announced a new 8x300kW hub in Hamilton.

 

 

Officially open it seems.

 

https://transportandenergy.com/2022/05/17/scotlands-largest-ultra-rapid-charging-station-opens-in-hamilton/

 

^^^ 

45 pence a kWh is OK to get a fast charge IMO. 

On 07/05/2022 at 08:25, roottoot said:

PS

I was talking to a TESLA Model 3 Taxi Driver (Private hire car) @ Edinburgh Airport Park & Ride.

He had free Tesla Super Charging but the Super Charger @ the Airport is out of order so he was sitting paying 35 pence a kWh on one of the 4 22kW chargers that let you charge for 3 hours.

He was very very peed off. 

And yet 2 miles away there is a tesla site with over 12 superchargers - not very bright taxi driver

 

 

Maybe he had a reason for not going to Newbridge then like being ready to go collect the customer as soon as they called him.

 

The SuperCharger site @ the Airport was not in use for the week and he was peed off as he had free charging.

Edited 30 May, 20224 yr by roottoot

http://www.transport.gov.scot/news/30-million-to-support-the-shift-to-zero-emission-transport

 

EV Charger grants for those in rural areas.

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/grants-and-loans/domestic-charge-point-funding

USED ELECTRIC VEHICLE LOAN information. 

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/grants-and-loans/used-electric-vehicle-loan

 

 

 

Edited 15 June, 20223 yr by roottoot

Used the Falkirk Stadium charge hub the other day, great facility with plenty of free chargers.

 

EDIT: To be clear, the 'free' chargers I refer to above means available - not no cost.

Edited 1 July, 20223 yr by Luckypants

 

 

'ChargePlace Scotland partners with Paua to trial new roaming charge platform.'

http://eva.scot/news/article/chargeplace-scotland-partners-with-paua-to-trial-new-roaming-charge-platform

 

 

'The gift that keeps on giving!'. 

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 July, 20223 yr by roottoot

Harthill park and ride has 1 50 kW charger and it worked as it should.  Only thing is you do not access from Harthill services West bound you have to go through the town to get to and from it.    BP pulse Harthill services east bound is 59 pence a kW charger as usual would not start for me even though I have credit. It started using a credit card then cut out.  That was after trying the ,3rd charger and people coming to ask about chargers.  I was not at my most chatty.   That was after lots of painless charging in the west coast.  Then I had the Airport to get back to and this time charged first time and it appears it was for free.  Then tried Hermiston park and ride but no luck there.  Switched off during development.  Got to Straiton park and ride and 28 mins of not much of a charge gave me enough to get home.   With free chargers and ,,35 pence a kWh chargers working but not showing on my account I did 600 miles for under £10 but what a PITA when just wanting on a 100 kW charger and pay and go.    The Capital city of Scotland is just a joke for visitors that want to get a charge when they arrive or are leaving or just going to the airport and not parking up. 

 

50kW chargers are not giving much in 30 mins if you are trying to get enough charge with a 45 kW battery and just even to 90%

and if you can only get on a 7kW one until the faster one is available it is not worth the time unless desperate. 

 

 

Edited 18 July, 20223 yr by roottoot

Isn't the Wallyford hub at the park and ride intended for visitors? Or is that always full of commuters by 8:30?

When we visited the Falkirk stadium hub it was practically deserted.

The big Park and Rides are deserted most of the time. Thankfully Falkirk has enough Rapid chargers for wanting to just charge and go.

 

Wallyford is perfect for those coming to that area maybe from the south or east or going out that way but not Edinburgh City. Nothing to do with Edinburgh City Councillors thankfully who introduced the 30 minute time limit on 50 kWh chargers. 

 

Wallyford  is East of Musselburgh so totally the opposite side of Edinburgh if you come across the Forth, come from Glasgow or even Falkirk. 

You want to get charged near the bridges or the airport of before getting to Edinburgh and you might not be going many miles east to get charged just to get back north, west or even south. 

 

Wallford towards the right. Beside the grey H near the A1. 

Airport is at Ingilston.   18.5 miles to go to Wallyford and 30 minutes only on the by-pass if you are lucky but then you are passing 2 Park & Rides going there and these have 1 DC charger each with the 30 minute limit.  I went to both these yesterday.  Luckily early while not much traffic. 

Edited 18 July, 20223 yr by roottoot

'Ayrshire Council and Council Tax Payers can't keep footing the bill for car charging.'

http://dailyrecord.co.uk/ayrshire/councils-cant-keep-footing-bill-27508271

 

Fair enough if they do support others when they apply to build proper charging hub's with facilities because what the Councils have on or near the M77 and A77 and the routes to and from the ferries and many places is pathetic other than at Kilmarnock.

On 18/07/2022 at 15:24, roottoot said:

The big Park and Rides are deserted most of the time. Thankfully Falkirk has enough Rapid chargers for wanting to just charge and go.

 

Wallyford is perfect for those coming to that area maybe from the south or east or going out that way but not Edinburgh City. Nothing to do with Edinburgh City Councillors thankfully who introduced the 30 minute time limit on 50 kWh chargers. 

 

Wallyford  is East of Musselburgh so totally the opposite side of Edinburgh if you come across the Forth, come from Glasgow or even Falkirk. 

You want to get charged near the bridges or the airport of before getting to Edinburgh and you might not be going many miles east to get charged just to get back north, west or even south. 

 

Wallford towards the right. Beside the grey H near the A1. 

Airport is at Ingilston.   18.5 miles to go to Wallyford and 30 minutes only on the by-pass if you are lucky but then you are passing 2 Park & Rides going there and these have 1 DC charger each with the 30 minute limit.  I went to both these yesterday.  Luckily early while not much traffic. 

 

wallyford is East Lothian, they have a 45 minute limit with £1 per minute thereafter. I know the guy who runs their chargers, an EV driver himself he's adamant 45 minutes is the right amount for a "journey charger" as he calls them

 

 

@domhnallWhat EV does he drive then, as in battery size and where does he head off from a charge of 45 minutes if he has a low battery on arrival if not on the 100kW charger?

 

'JOURNEY Chargers' neighbouring the council area with 30 minute max charging time 'Journey chargers'. 

What are the other type of Rapid chargers if not Journey Chargers?

 

Maybe he needs to see things other peoples way and maybe he is not going to dis what they have decided for there as i imagine he is an employee 'running the hub' on behalf of the council. 

 

45 minutes is certainly better (The same as Highland Region who also charge £1 a minute after 45 minutes) than 30 minutes,

but on a 50 kW charger if you only get 33 kWh in then that is that, 100 miles maybe more in the car.

 

That is just enough to get me home without having to charge on the way, but i will charge again before getting home in Perthshire so that i am not without any range, 

particularly important if there is a road closure or diversions. 

There is one 50 kW charger after Perth and before Angus on my route and that is at Coupar Angus. 

 

Angus has no time limit but you pay to charge, Dundee has a very sensible 70 minutes & a £10 overstay charge. 

 

 

@domhnall90% charged at Straiton and enough to get home without another charge as long as no diversions and not winter.

The guy that runs Wallyford might not have to think about only getting 110 miles range and get to Fife and beyond with a smaller battery inefficient EV and other regions charger hubs being unreliable.

Edited 5 August, 20223 yr by roottoot

On 05/08/2022 at 07:27, roottoot said:

@domhnallWhat EV does he drive then, as in battery size and where does he head off from a charge of 45 minutes if he has a low battery on arrival if not on the 100kW charger?

 

'JOURNEY Chargers' neighbouring the council area with 30 minute max charging time 'Journey chargers'. 

What are the other type of Rapid chargers if not Journey Chargers?

 

Maybe he needs to see things other peoples way and maybe he is not going to dis what they have decided for there as i imagine he is an employee 'running the hub' on behalf of the council. 

 

45 minutes is certainly better (The same as Highland Region who also charge £1 a minute after 45 minutes) than 30 minutes,

but on a 50 kW charger if you only get 33 kWh in then that is that, 100 miles maybe more in the car.

 

That is just enough to get me home without having to charge on the way, but i will charge again before getting home in Perthshire so that i am not without any range, 

particularly important if there is a road closure or diversions. 

There is one 50 kW charger after Perth and before Angus on my route and that is at Coupar Angus. 

 

Angus has no time limit but you pay to charge, Dundee has a very sensible 70 minutes & a £10 overstay charge. 

 

 

@domhnall90% charged at Straiton and enough to get home without another charge as long as no diversions and not winter.

The guy that runs Wallyford might not have to think about only getting 110 miles range and get to Fife and beyond with a smaller battery inefficient EV and other regions charger hubs being unreliable.

 

he drives a Tesla. I've no issue with 45 minutes as that's roughly all I ever spend charging,  Never go beyond 80% as it slows down too much after that, it's always faster to move on and charge again

 

That is what happens as a battery is bigger, the 80% of 58 is more than 45 obviously. 

If 80% of 45 kWh is not going to take you far then you need to get a bit more charging and maybe go for 90%. 

 

The charge will slow down, but if you roll in with 10% so 4.5 kWh and only charge 33 kWh then you have 37.5 kW, fine if you are getting 3 miles to a kWh and you can get to another charger with 10% left.

So maybe 100 miles to a charger.   if it is cold and you get 2.7 miles per kWh then that 89 miles.   

 45 minutes might suit some charging at 100 kW and with the bigger batteries and the guy that runs the hub and drives a Tesla. 

 

45 minutes if you can charge just to 50Kw might just give 27 kWh of a charge, sometimes less and that is starting out with a low battery.

 

Its suits you getting 4 miles plus a kWh and with more @ 80% in your battery. 

 

You do not move on in your journey with a poor range if you know there are no chargers without going well off your route or you check and know the chargers are out of use, 

as in broken and staying broken.  Well lots of people do not.

Edited 10 August, 20223 yr by roottoot

11 hours ago, roottoot said:

You do not move on in your journey with a poor range if you know there are no chargers without going well off your route or you check and know the chargers are out of use, 

as in broken and staying broken.  Well lots of people do not.

This is my experience. Although 45min is enough for Leaf due to lower battery-to-charging-speed ratio, with such a small  range of search area, I often forced to use unreliable charging locations (single rapid, busy loc, etc)

 

11 hours ago, roottoot said:

The charge will slow down, but if you roll in with 10% so 4.5 kWh and only charge 33 kWh then you have 37.5 kW, fine if you are getting 3 miles to a kWh and you can get to another charger with 10% left.

So maybe 100 miles to a charger.   if it is cold and you get 2.7 miles per kWh then that 89 miles.   

 45 minutes might suit some charging at 100 kW and with the bigger batteries and the guy that runs the hub and drives a Tesla. 

 

45 minutes if you can charge just to 50Kw might just give 27 kWh of a charge, sometimes less and that is starting out with a low battery.

 

Its suits you getting 4 miles plus a kWh and with more @ 80% in your battery. 

I think this can be summarised to one simple sentence:

Efficiency is king.