Brake Fade

[MC Bodge]

28 minutes ago, flybynite said:

However my preference, by far, is to have good rear brakes on a road car as I'm  are not trying to be 'tail-happy' round corners on the road like you would be on a track, no matter how fast I'm are driving.

Less brake bias towards the rear (more braking up front) will be less inclined to lock up the rear wheels.

 

I will need to measure my Octavia discs, although they look small.

[flybynite]

3 minutes ago, MC Bodge said:

Less brake bias towards the rear (more braking up front) will be less inclined to lock up the rear wheels.

 

Whilst that may be true, your Octavia is unlikely to lock up either brake. If you slow the front of the car harder than the back, the back can, in some circumstances, try to overtake the front. Best to have a matched set of brakes with a bias that is known to work

 

Lets face it we are not talking extremes here, a single step change is unlikely to affect the handling greatly either way, but AFAIK the 312mm front has always been paired with the 272mm rear and I see no reason to change it.

 

If you are going to upgrade the brakes, stick to a known working setup unless you have a particular problem you are trying to fix and know what you are doing when you fix it.

[MC Bodge]

The rear discs are approx. 250mm as measured with a ruler, by eye, with the wheels. 

[fabdavrav]

2 hours ago, MC Bodge said:

Interesting, thanks. 

 

Its a shame that the 1.4TSI estate doesn't get the bigger brakes (and IRS), although I suppose that the vast majority of people would never reach the point of brake fade and the assumption being that "keen drivers" would pay the premium for the GT# models, although even few of them would be driven in a way that treated the brakes hard. 

 

Ps. Similarly for the rear suspension. Few drivers would notice the difference. Encountering a mid-bend bump being where I notice it most, as the back end skips out. 

 

MK7 Golf 1.4TSI in GT spec with 1.4lt TSI 140/150PS or 1.5ltEVO 150PS, or 2lt 150PS diesel ..all have sports suspension, rear multilink, ...all MK7 etc Golfs have electronic handbrakes so get bigger rear discs as standard...

 

In fact its the first car I've had where the rear brakes are way above what is required & the fronts are woefully inadequate for a back road drive....this is why I retro fitted the GTD/GTI 312mm fronts...

 

If I had known that the DCC (magnetic adjustable dampers) option actually came with the 312mm front discs & the front aluminium hub carriers (all GTD/GTI spec) I would have specified DCC....

[MC Bodge]

6 hours ago, fabdavrav said:

In fact its the first car I've had where the rear brakes are way above what is required & the fronts are woefully inadequate for a back road drive....this is why I retro fitted the GTD/GTI 312mm fronts...

I've noticed that some other cars have big discs on the rear too. 

 

Coming from a Mk4 Mondeo, I never experienced any fade and that was driven exuberantly at times, including fully laden on the autobahnen and chasing the locals over the Alps. 

[logiclee]

16 hours ago, MC Bodge said:

I've noticed that some other cars have big discs on the rear too. 

 

 

 

When looking at BMW, Merc, Jag etc that have a large amount of RWD models the rear discs are also specced to cope with DSC/TC on the rear axle.

 

It's quite common on some of the higher powered versions to get through two sets of rears before a set of fronts.

 

Lee

Edited 1 July, 2019 by logiclee

[MC Bodge]

 

Having driven the car a bit normally and now managed a test-drive to give the brakes a work-out (within the bounds of the local traffic/roads at lunchtime), subjective impressions are:

 

The new Ferodo Premier Eco brake pads appear to bite hard. Prodding the pedal activates the ABS. Being a bit more progressive produces strong deceleration.

(any genuine extra braking power will, of course, generate more heat. Those air ducts would be good)

 

Under the - admittedly limited- load cycles applied, the brakes became warm and there was no sign of fading.

 

Ideally, I'd do a few hard stops from 100+mph  ...if I could use a runway or a closed section of the M6 and a few laps of a hilly track. 

[MC Bodge]

Having also added the air ducts, I recently visited the Lake District. There wasn't opportunity for hard use, but the car was fairly heavily laden and I gave the brakes a few extended prods down the Honister Pass, and other hills, resulting in no obvious fading and no blueing or smelling of the brakes. 

 

Interestingly, 3 cars passed me as I stood at the bottom of said Honister Pass. One of the cars was a Mk3 Octavia and at least one of the cars had very smelly, burning brakes. It may have been the Octavia. If so, maybe the OEM pads are not very heat resistant? 

 

 

 

[flybynite]

1 hour ago, MC Bodge said:

If so, maybe the OEM pads are not very heat resistant? 

 

OEM pads have to cater for the lowest common denominator and have to brake well from cold. You don't get something for nothing, high temperature pads work less well from cold. It is a bit like how they make the handling biased to understeer because it is the 'safe' option not the best option.

 

Don't confuse making the brakes 'grab' better with better braking. Put some of the 'performance' pads on 340mm disks and they become all but unusable in daily use.

 

Generally Skoda will expect someone wanting better performance to go up the model range where better brakes are fitted that have better braking performance with the default pads. 

 

It is the same with any manufacturer, if you want better performance you get the 'better' model or it is DIY

[KenONeill]

@MC Bodge @flybynite - Agreed too much jump in is horrible to drive, based on occasionally driving a borrowed Jazz automatic.

[MC Bodge]

2 hours ago, flybynite said:

 

OEM pads have to cater for the lowest common denominator and have to brake well from cold. You don't get something for nothing, high temperature pads work less well from cold. It is a bit like how they make the handling biased to understeer because it is the 'safe' option not the best option.

 

Don't confuse making the brakes 'grab' better with better braking. Put some of the 'performance' pads on 340mm disks and they become all but unusable in daily use.

 

Generally Skoda will expect someone wanting better performance to go up the model range where better brakes are fitted that have better braking performance with the default pads. 

 

It is the same with any manufacturer, if you want better performance you get the 'better' model or it is DIY

I know this.

 

I've only fitted Ferodo Premier pads. OEM on other cars. They appear better than the TRW? OEM pads that were on the car when I got it. 

 

The 1.4TSI is a reasonably quick engine. You shouldn't need to buy a VRS to get decent braking.