Hi... I'm planning to buy a used Superb at some point within the next 6 months and would like confirmation or education regarding a choice between DSG vs Manual and Petrol vs Diesel...

 

I know these subjects have been covered at length online generally (albeit sometimes with contradictory views) but I would like to check my understanding with you knowledgeable people.

 

I'm currently thinking that petrol with manual gearbox is my best bet, but there aren't as many around so not as easy to get hold of.

My journeys to and from work are 5 miles each way in traffic (but not too much queuing) and a typical weekend would involve a couple of 10 mile motorway journeys plus a bit of urban driving.  Totalling about 9000 miles per year.

 

I like the idea of having DSG gearbox but very wary of having a £4k bill if it breaks.

 

I've researched the issues with DSG boxes and it seems that if maintained properly, the wet clutch boxes (DQ250) are reliable generally speaking, and the main problems were with the sealed dry clutch (DQ200) due to a combination of the wrong oil in the mechatronic unit and the fact that the clutch is dry.

 

My understanding is that the DQ200 dry clutch is in the 1.6 diesel and the 1.4 petrol cars and the DQ250 wet clutch is in the 2.0 diesel and 2.0 petrol.

I believe the 1.4 petrol has a maximum torque of 250 Nm and that the DQ200 box has a torque limit of 250 Nm.....so borderline load vs capacity.

I'm also aware that the dry clutches are alleged to have been fixed by replacing the oil via a service recall but the idea of a dry clutch sounds less of a good idea to me albeit with little/zero knowledge of clutches but I believe overheating can be an issue.

 

So if I went with the DSG I would be running the DQ200 with not much of a safety margin against overload and if I decided I didn't want to run that risk I would have to look at going up to the 2.0 petrol or diesel, but then I have the potential DPF issue because of the low/short mileage I do.

 

Is there anyone here that is suitably qualified/experienced to confirm that my thinking is correct or else point out where I'm wrong ?

 

Thanks

Would definitely avoid diesel for typically short journeys, you'll find lots of dpf regenerations going on. Whilst I cannot comment personally on the longevity of any dsg gearbox, I took delivery of my own new 2.0tsi kodiaq start of last month with dsg (my first automatic) and without a doubt from a driving stand point I wouldn't go back to manual now it's a tremendous thing. Engine wise I would tend to favor the 2.0 petrol model over the smaller 1.4/1.5tsi. 2.0 is a much livelier performer than the 1.5tsi and scarcely any harder on fuel. Just for the record though, I have never driven a 1.4tsi specifically (1.5tsi I have, in an octavia combi in which I found it a gutless reluctant performer even though on paper it does the same numbers as the older 1.4, meaning you tend to "hoof" it along to make reasonable progress to the obvious detriment of fuel economy). Really depends on what your expecting from the car, you may find the 1.4/1.5tsi more than adequate for your needs, I hear the older 1.4tsi is sharper than the newer 1.5tsi (probably to do with the new emission legislation etc). Do you tow anything? 

Edited 18 September, 20196 yr by Gmac983
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9 minutes ago, Gmac983 said:

Engine wise I would tend to favor the 2.0 petrol model over the smaller 1.4/1.5tsi. 2.0 is a much livelier performer than the 1.5tsi and scarcely any harder on fuel. Just for the record though, I have never driven a 1.4tsi specifically (1.5tsi I have, in an octavia combi in which I found it a gutless reluctant performer even though on paper it does the same numbers as the older 1.4, meaning you tend to "hoof" it along to make reasonable progress to the obvious detriment of fuel economy). Really depends on what your expecting from the car, you may find the 1.4/1.5tsi more than adequate for your needs, I hear the older 1.4tsi is sharper than the newer 1.5tsi (probably to do with the new emission legislation etc). Do you tow anything? 

 

Thanks for the reply Gmac983.... No, I don't tow anything and I'm not too fussed if it's not quick as I'm a pretty sedate driver these days.  I did read about the newer 1.5 being more sluggish than the older 1.4 but I'm not against going with the 2.0 petrol though if one comes up that matches all the other many preferences on my wish list.

Based on your mileage and usage I wouldn't entertain a diesel.  I'd say a DPF and short journeys wherein the engine barely gets up to temp would be much more of a worry/potential issue than your gearbox choice. 

 

Will you be buying nearly new/used/a few years old? Based on budget, what mileage will the car have likely covered? The service history of a used DSG will be important, e.g serviced to schedule using the correct oil and such.  A newer car will still have warranty and if you finance through Skoda/VWFS then you should be able to extend the warranty which would cover the gearbox too.  Maintenance is key...carried out at the right time, by people who know what they are doing.  Anything else is bad luck IMHO. 

 

I wouldn't go back to a manual now, the 'character' of the Superb suits a DSG and it's great in the 2.0 TSI's, smooth and still fun (more so if you have paddles).  The DSG also works well with adaptive cruise control, which sounds like it may not be much of a bonus to you based on commutes and usage but it does make a difference on longer journeys IME. 

 

I'd personally opt for a 220 TSI as it blends quite good real-world economy with more than enough usable performance and it's buttery smooth.  Plenty of people on here are coming up to 4 years of ownership and I can't recall seeing any major and routine faults being reported. 

 

I've had both a manual TDI and DSG TSI Superb 3's and I honestly would never go back to the former fuel/box unless I really had to.   

 

 

 

Edited 18 September, 20196 yr by penguin17

2.0TSI with a 6 or 7 speed wet clutch DSG that gets an oil change done every 40,000 miles and the engines oil / filter ever year if you want and job done.

Wet clutch DSG that's properly maintained will probably last forever (they're overengineered). The durability of these gearboxes is just crazy good. The dry clutch type without issues should last 150.000miles and more.  But like manual it will eventually require clutch replacement which isn't that much more expensive than manual. But either way, DSG is pretty reliable. 

I do not own automatic, but I've gathered a lot of information about it in last 2 years. Even took one apart from VW Golf GTI.

 

P.S.: 1200HP monster Bugatti Chiron has DSG that puts down 1500nm torque and its designed the same way, just different clutch packs and materials. 

That seems to confirm that the diesel would be the biggest no-no.  As far as the DSG aspect is concerned, having done my research I think I would still prefer the wet clutch from a reliability perspective, which means I believe would be looking for the 2.0 petrol if I'm right in thinking that all the 1.4 TSI petrols DSG's are running the DQ200 dry clutch ?

 

 

 

22 minutes ago, penguin17 said:

Will you be buying nearly new/used/a few years old? Based on budget, what mileage will the car have likely covered?

 

I plan to buy 2017 or 2018 model (as I prefer the infotainment screen) and was aiming for mileage up to about 35,000 max but hopefully significantly lower.  

2 minutes ago, DB72 said:

That seems to confirm that the diesel would be the biggest no-no.  As far as the DSG aspect is concerned, having done my research I think I would still prefer the wet clutch from a reliability perspective, which means I believe would be looking for the 2.0 petrol if I'm right in thinking that all the 1.4 TSI petrols DSG's are running the DQ200 dry clutch ?

 

 

 

 

I plan to buy 2017 or 2018 model (as I prefer the infotainment screen) and was aiming for mileage up to about 35,000 max but hopefully significantly lower.  

You are correct. Wet box for the 2 litre engines. I'm in my first DSG equipped car (272 SEL) and it is fantastic. My mileage sounds similar to yours. In fact this is month 10 of ownership and I'm almost at 9k. The 220 sounds perfect for you.

220TSI DSG is smooth, quiet, and quick. I've averaged about 35mpg over 35000 miles of mixed town/motorway driving (more motorway). I'd buy another one if it was still available new, instead I'm expecting a 272L&Q in a couple of weeks 🙂

What is the consensus regarding the dry clutch (DQ200) dsg now that the oil issue has allegedly been sorted...?  Is this still supposed to be a maintenance free, sealed unit that lasts without oil or filter replacement ?

26 minutes ago, DB72 said:

What is the consensus regarding the dry clutch (DQ200) dsg now that the oil issue has allegedly been sorted...?  Is this still supposed to be a maintenance free, sealed unit that lasts without oil or filter replacement ?

 

Would be interested in this too.

1 hour ago, DB72 said:

What is the consensus regarding the dry clutch (DQ200) dsg now that the oil issue has allegedly been sorted...?  Is this still supposed to be a maintenance free, sealed unit that lasts without oil or filter replacement ?

 

OIL issues? There is no oil issues? Sealed "maintenance" free units also die sooner because of no oil changes. 

18 minutes ago, JackySi said:

 

OIL issues? There is no oil issues? Sealed "maintenance" free units also die sooner because of no oil changes. 

 

I believe earlier dry clutch boxes had the wrong kind of oil in the mechtronic unit which caused corrosion leading to failure.

People should gen up on DQ200 DSG's before passing comment.

Skoda do build around 2,200 of these boxes a day.

 

No they have not fixed them to 100% reliability.

Yes there was a World Wide Recall 2009-2012 excluding Europe.

There was Service Campaign 34F7  Oil Change and Software.

Then 37G8 Software, 

Then 2013-2015 34H5, Software.  This is due to overheating, pressure issues and cracked and leaking boxes after Synthetic Oil used again.

Then the 2015 issues as found in the Fabia MK3 section, there are Clutch Pack Updates and Software Updates and this affects some in VW's, Audi's & SEATS.

Then there is the current loss of drive issue as found in the Karoq Section with some 1.5 TSI EVO with DQ200 DSG.

A few members found the car so unsafe they rejected them.  This is not the Kanerooing issue.

 

So if anyone says Early DQ200 DSG only, then they do not know what they are talking about.

 

Failures might be low, but then if Skoda admitted failing and said it is only 2 a day out of 2,200 we coc-k up that would be 'Simply clever'.

If it is 22 per day then that might be honest, but honesty is not their policy.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/439395-the-story-of-the-famous-dq200-clutch-slip/page/13

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/463302-no-throttle-response-on-startup

 

 

Odd that China got a 10 year / 160,000 mile Warranty at the time of the World Wide Recall but 7 years on they can not offer that on all DQ200 DSG's as being fitted now world wide.

 

 

Edited 18 September, 20196 yr by Roottootemoot

The DSG in my 2006 Golf lasted 125k before the electronics failed and stuck it in first gear...and no reverse...

Just incase anyone else is interested I found this thread by someone who sounds knowledgeable to me, suggesting that in summary, from a durability perspective only...... wet clutch = good........dry clutch = bad.

 

 

DQ200 DSG's can be fantastic, really good with the right engine and when not faulty.

 

The foot on Brake pedal does not come into it if you have a car with 'Autohold' and an E-brake. so comparing a few years back cars with the newest is not the best thing to do.

 

A 2015 on VW Polo GTI 1.8TSI 192 ps / 250 Nm with the DQ200 DSG is a cracker. (The manual has the same 192ps but 320 Nm supposedly lighter, but actually no quicker.)

What's the torque limit on the DQ250 ??  

8 minutes ago, k.young said:

What's the torque limit on the DQ250 ??  

 

350 Nm I think.... Edit: Sorry, my mistake , it appears to be 400 Nm

Edited 19 September, 20196 yr by DB72
Wrong figure quoted

Just now, DB72 said:

 

350 Nm I think 

 

 

Yep, thanks.....I just found that myself. Next question.........which DSG box has my 2016 Superb 2.0tdi 190 DSG (6 speed) ??       This model has 400nm as standard, does it mean that my gearbox can only handle 350nm but the engine produces 400nm ???

2 minutes ago, k.young said:

 

 

Yep, thanks.....I just found that myself. Next question.........which DSG box has my 2016 Superb 2.0tdi 190 DSG (6 speed) ??       This model has 400nm as standard, does it mean that my gearbox can only handle 350nm but the engine produces 400nm ???

 

Sorry.... I think 350 was wrong and may be 400 Nm