Non starter

[CFB]

Morning all, I’m looking for a bit of help.

My daughter had a misfire on her greenline 60.

Took it to the garage and they diagnosed iffy coil packs and plugs needed changing.

The rubbers over the plugs had decayed and welded themselves to the plugs. When they tried to get the old parts off, the rubbers snapped off down the plug tubes in the head.

They eventually got them off and replaced the plugs and coil packs.

The car now won’t start!

 

They have checked for error codes and nothing showing up.

Fuses checked and they are all good.

 

Has anyone got any idea what the **** is going on and have any solution?

Many thanks for your ideas.

Edited 5 October, 2019 by CFB

[Ootohere]

 

If they have the correct plugs with the correct gap and the correct coils, all fitted correctly and they have not imobiolized it or have an empty fuel tank they co-cked up, 

the mechanic needs the RAC / Greenflag / AA.

Or maybe someone else that knows what they are doing.

Edited 5 October, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[snapseller]

CFB,

Does Greenline have stop/go? If so could it have something to do with that? I know someone with a Nissan Note with stop/go who has had all sorts of problems, inc. new battery, new starter motor, et al. Not the same car/make obviously, but a possibility? 

[CFB]

I did think about the crash fuel cut off being tripped.

Also, is it possible to get the coil packs plugged in wrong order?

[freemansteve]

Long shot: I haven't come across degradation of plug leads (as described), in a modern car, so I wonder if they have been damaged by excess heat in the cylinder head? If all else fails for starting the car, it may be worth checking oil/coolant levels/quality, ignition timing (including crankshaft position sensor, fuel starvation (lean running) and anything that may cause hot running (such as O2 sensor). Ultimately there could be head damage too....

 

As I say, a long shot, and hopefully the root cause is something trivial and cheap to sort out - the thing is that my version of Citigo does not have a coolant temp gauge, which is a daft cost-cutting measure!

 

[Luckypants]

27 minutes ago, freemansteve said:

As I say, a long shot, and hopefully the root cause is something trivial and cheap to sort out - the thing is that my version of Citigo does not have a coolant temp gauge, which is a daft cost-cutting measure!

 

Off topic but.... On older models you have a temp gauge on the PID device. As the Move and fun mobile phone app. replaced the PID I would expect to find a temperature gauge there.

 

As far as the OP goes, I think the immobiliser or fuel trip is probably the root cause.

[freemansteve]

Hopefully this is right; I don't disagree..

 

I'm still curious about the cause of "welded" plug leads though, not to mention what may have triggered the fuel trip or messed up the immobilizer. This is the problem with being an engineer - finding one problem often uncovers more, which need to be addressed!

 

I look forward to reading how the OP's garage fixes the starting problem - the trouble is garages often end up fiddling with or replacing several things at once and so can never be sure they have identified which precise fix was the key one! But they will always say with certainty what it was when you get the bill - and they are more certain when it's a bigger bill!

 

Roll on electric cars!

 

[Ootohere]

@CFB

Did they get straight on it this morning and car started now and appologies made?

[CFB]

@freemansteve the crank position sensor was mentioned, but my issue with that is the car was running, albeit on 2 cylinders before they started. It would be a coincidence if the sensor failed while they had the car as it has not been started since they changed the coil packs etc.

As for the rubbers over the plug ceramics, the plugs weren’t checked at the last service as it was just an oil and filter.

It looks like the Skoda dealer that did the previous main service didn’t check them either 🤬

 

@Roottootemoot Not heard anything yet today.

 

[Emil]

There should be warning light for overheat. That's more than enough for most of us. But is there? 

Edited 7 October, 2019 by Emil

[freemansteve]

OK, so crank position sensor was a long shot, since new information is that the misfire was only a single cylinder, but my thrust was possible timing errors that may have caused overheating.

 

I did not know that 2019 Citigos had a warning light for overheating, but to me that's still cheapo, as I like to see problems as they build up, not when they possibly become critical..... It's like saying you don't need a fuel gauge, just a warning light when you are getting low!

 

I did know you can see temp on my Move&Fun app (or whatever the daft thing is called), but as the basic s/w is pretty much unusable compared with a grown-up sat-nav, I cannot be bothered with it - I might as well use my ODB bluetooth plug-in to get even more data....   Seems to me that it would be a trivial bit of coding to get coolant temp to display digitally somewhere - maybe where outside temp is shown on the dash (who cares about that ?).   Sorry - I digress; my car is a fab city car despite the daft cost-savings.

 

As I said, I am keen to hear the full story on this thread, when all the faults have been addressed !

 

[Emil]

There is a knocking sensor. So timing errors should not be issue. 

 

I do have engine temperature display (optional extra). Same place where outside temperature can be seen. I do think outside temperature is nice feature. 

[Ootohere]

Blue light not up to efficent temp, red light over heating does the job just fine for many, the default @ 90*oC kidology indication is just that, kidology when you actually check temps.

Oil temp more interesting to many than the coolant temp.

getting to 50*oC then to 80 and if ever to 90 and up and down as the coolant a system does its job.

 

Outside temp pretty damn important for those that need warning that it might be icy because they are too stupid to know.

Edited 7 October, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[Emil]

Some are too stupid to know there is difference between 4c and -45c. I don't care about icy warning but temperature is good thing to know during winter. Grip is different when there is -2c compared -25c. Car also behave differently. It's also good to know when you should try to melt snow on windshield and when not. 

 

Anyway don't blame the car or manufacturer if first owner didn't want to buy engine temperature gauge. 

[Ootohere]

Actually some just dont know when they set off that it might be 6 degrees above freezing and within a few miles it can be below 4 above freezing, then there might be a dip in the road / damp corner in shade and there can be black ice, and until they get out a cozy car know the temperature.  Not that the temp shows the ground temp just more like the air temp.

No frosty / snowy roadsides as an indicator as to how the temp can change over a few miles in an island nation.

Thats just how it can be around Scotland.     

Edited 8 October, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[Blackcountryman]

This is all off topic......red warning light came on, stuck  in traffic in falling snow on my 18mth old Peugeot .No temp gauge fitted,When I checked rad cap when safe.found oil in the water.Head gasket had blown, as fan switch had not worked,fan had not run.Manufacturers did not want to know.(£500 bill in 1996)

Back on topic,I wouldn't be dealing with a garage that can't  diagnose faults.Dealers have diagnostic equip,instead of best guess'es  on here. If people are trained on the specific model ,that should take the guess work out. ......

 

Thought about fitting a temp gauge,as phone is not compatible with Citigo.Too much work involved to make it viable.Just hope the fan switches work on Skoda's......

Edited 8 October, 2019 by Blackcountryman

[CFB]

On 07/10/2019 at 20:41, freemansteve said:

OK, so crank position sensor was a long shot, since new information is that the misfire was only a single cylinder, but my thrust was possible timing errors that may have caused overheating.

 

I did not know that 2019 Citigos had a warning light for overheating, but to me that's still cheapo, as I like to see problems as they build up, not when they possibly become critical..... It's like saying you don't need a fuel gauge, just a warning light when you are getting low!

 

I did know you can see temp on my Move&Fun app (or whatever the daft thing is called), but as the basic s/w is pretty much unusable compared with a grown-up sat-nav, I cannot be bothered with it - I might as well use my ODB bluetooth plug-in to get even more data....   Seems to me that it would be a trivial bit of coding to get coolant temp to display digitally somewhere - maybe where outside temp is shown on the dash (who cares about that ?).   Sorry - I digress; my car is a fab city car despite the daft cost-savings.

 

As I said, I am keen to hear the full story on this thread, when all the faults have been addressed !

 

 

Well the Citigo lives again.

Turns out the crank position sensor was faulty, but there was also a short in the coil pack wiring loom.

It took a day’s labour to find the problem and fix, but at least it is now done.