Scot5, you stated you can't imagine that anyone interested in a Kamiq would consider an Octavia, and they're cars in wholly different sectors.

 

On your first point, it's reasonable to infer that the reverse is also the case - that anyone interested in an Octavia wouldn't consider the Kamiq. Which, for me at least, is not so. I am interested in the Octavia and would consider the Kamiq.

 

As for being in "wholly different" sectors, I beg to disagree. The Octavia and Kamiq are both roomy five-door hatchbacks with a fair sized boot and share at least two engines and gearboxes. Their price ranges overlap. Their performances and fuel economies are also close. True, they are not a complete or exact match, but they are to a degree competing for customers with similar needs and meet those needs in different ways. But not wholly different.

 

Yes, I own a vRS Octavia hatch. I really enjoy using it. It does what I want, and meets my needs. When it comes to change it in a year or so, purely because I'd like a change by then, I will need something similar. That is, basically a roomy five door hatchback with a decent boot. But since I like the performance my vRS provides, I'd also want - as I implied - a more powerful engine than the Kamiq currently offers. Hence my preference for an engine with around 180 bhp. Although if/when I try a 1.5 Kamiq (with 150 bhp) and find I enjoy it as much as many of the reviewers have found the smaller engines, I would seriously consider buying it.

 

I believe I wouldn't be the only Octavia owner doing that either.

 

The biggest difference I think is the boot. I found my old Octavia boot to be cavernous. When I looked at the Kamiq's it looked tiny in comparison. One of the modern tricks of the trade seems to be quoting the size as a volume and how many suit cases you can pile in rather than width and depth. Most of this apparent new space is due to height. This sector (all of them) seem to have boots that do not go back far unless the seats are down and are not very wide. Of course you only have to have a taller boot to increase the volume.

@FlyingGecko

Obvious thing that will put the Octavia & Kamiq in different classes is if you call a Taxi / Private Hire / UBER there might be an Octavia arrive and not a Kamiq.

Then Driving Schools / Instructors might have a Kamiq to teach in but unlikely to have an Octavia.

 

That is the difference of the likes of a Polo / Ibiza size / class & a Golf/ Passat class.

Edited 15 December, 20196 yr by Roottootemoot

3 hours ago, dcweather said:

The biggest difference I think is the boot. ...

 

And that sums it up nicely. We really are spoilt in the Octavia.

Edited 15 December, 20196 yr by FlyingGecko

3 hours ago, Roottootemoot said:

@FlyingGecko

Obvious thing that will put the Octavia & Kamiq in different classes is if you call a Taxi / Private Hire / UBER there might be an Octavia arrive and not a Kamiq.

Then Driving Schools / Instructors might have a Kamiq to teach in but unlikely to have an Octavia.

 

That is the difference of the likes of a Polo / Ibiza size / class & a Golf/ Passat class.

 

 

 

 

The Kamiq is rather on the big side for a learner driver. I'd be astonished if I saw one, and would question the instructor's reasoning. The three I know all reckon a Golf/Focus/Scala is big enough. Anything else frightens the brand new learner. Mind you, I did see a young woman being given lessons by a parent in a Range Rover once.

 

I've seen  Jaguar XE, XF, and XJ Ubers. Also Mercedes A Class and S Class, BMW 1 (now THERE'S a small boot!) and 5 Series, a Dacia Duster and a Kia Venga, so a Kamiq wouldn't surprise me.

 

I'd argue that Golf and Passat are different sectors, (like the Scala and Superb), but their sectors do overlap, as I'll argue below about the wider Skoda range.

 

Obviously there are clearly widely different sectors, such as small two door sports (eg Mazda MX-5) and large executive saloon - (eg Mercedes S Class). The Mazda, nice though it is, isn't going to appeal to someone needing five seats, a big boot, and the ability to cover, say, Glasgow to London in comfort. Same as a Superb wouldn't suit a single traveller with a three mile daily commute in central London (Congestion charge aside). Such a person might WANT a car like the Superb but doesn't  NEED it. For that person a VW UP/Skoda Citigo is near perfect.

 

But what I AM saying is that boundaries are vague to varying degrees between the likes of Citigo/Fabia,  Fabia/Scala,  Octavia/Superb,  Kamiq/Karoq,  Karoq/Kodiaq, and, in my case, Kamiq/Octavia/Superb. All three of those are five door roomy hatchbacks with a reasonable to huge boot, which is basically what I need.  What I WANT is something with a lot more style than the Scala, which is too mainstream for my tastes, and the Superb is just a little too big for my needs. The Karoq looks a little too mainstream also and, like the Superb, is just a bit too big.  So I'm left with the Kamiq and Octavia, which fit both my needs and wants. While they might be in marginally different sectors, they are not in WHOLLY different sectors. Which is the point of my previous post.

@FlyingGecko

What is 'Mainstream' about a Karoq?   Sorry if i am not understanding what that means. 

It seems popular as a Octavia is because there are choices of trims and drivetrain, the Octavia has more choice because there is Hatch or Estates on offer.

 

BMW 1 Series are rather a common Driving Instructors car. BMW doing the good lease deals.

 

The Scala is longer than the Kamiq. 

So as to the 3 you know they might want to actually look at what is what length wise.

The Kamiq being shorter & narrower than a Golf / Focus and Scala. (Scala and Kamiq same width.)

 

Scala / Kamiq have the things in common .  The Citigo is now EV only, and Fabia are only available new as Petrol Manuals.

 

A Kamiq is easy out and easy in more so than a Scala for those that need easy in and easy out. Rear seats width is not great.

It looks like being one of the most ordered Skoda for those getting cars on Motability. 

That will be easy to be seen if correct or not after a couple of quarters in 2020.

Motability are doing low Advance Payments on Octavia and Octavia estates as Skoda are on a push to get ones sold and doing them a good deal.

Edited 15 December, 20196 yr by Roottootemoot

A Karoq is shorter than an Octavia.

We have a 2017 Octavia hatch and a 2018 Karoq and you can get 2 large suitcases in the Karoq's boot without moving the rear seats and 4 large suitcases in the Octy's boot.

Re the learner driver bit. I've commonly seen hyundai i30's and Honda civics in driving schools, both are longer than kamiq for learner maneuvers. 

Did trailer training and test (B+E) a couple of years ago, that driving school used an i30 for said trailer training and normal learner driving as well. 

I'm not really understanding the comparisons being made here between the cars discussed. 

Someones random short list of cars they're interested in doesn't make them class competitors just because that's what they're looking at. Might aswell say that any car with 4 wheels is a competitor.

Kamiqs competitors are things like Vauxhall mokka, Ford ecosport, vw troc, Seat Arona, and any other crossover certainly not saloon cars/family hatches and med/large SUV's. Any price overlapping that exists is rather irrelevant. 

Back to the original post, did not the CEO of VAG say that they were going to take Skoda down market, strip off the goodies so that they could sell more basic cars into Eastern Europe? You then add on to get the spec you want. He also indicated that Volkswagen brand would stay as they are and Seat would move into a more premium position. This stance of Skoda down market is not good news for us.

So if you want a basic Kamiq and you live in Eastern Europe thats ok. If you live in the west, hard luck.

 

Edited 15 December, 20196 yr by Widescreen
Duplication

1 hour ago, Widescreen said:

Back to the original post, did not the CEO of VAG say that they were going to take Skoda down market, strip off the goodies so that they could sell more basic cars into Eastern Europe? You then add on to get the spec you want. He also indicated that Volkswagen brand would stay as they are and Seat would move into a more premium position. This stance of Skoda down market is not good news for us.

 

It really depends on how Skoda pitch their prices and option packs if they bring in this business strategy to the UK. We would have to seem some pretty drastic list price reductions here if that is their plan. I am assuming Skoda intend to become the Dacia brand of the VAGroup but hopefully a bit better than that. Marketing cars in a pared back form could work well for them bringing them back to their early days as part of VAG, critically as long as they get the pricing right and higher spec is available to option. 

Edited 15 December, 20196 yr by Gmac983

We might find out what the UK has in the way of tariffs for car imports soon enough.

 

If the tariffs are on the cost to dealerships of an import or on RRP's then surely the selling prices will need to be more based on what the cost of the car that the tariffs were paid on.

RRP's and the cost of renting a car for 3 years  & Dealer & Manufacturers contribution and the actual price to buy a car are just so silly in the UK.

The Manufacturers and the Importer in the country like VW Finance are money lenders / banks.

Its all about kidology and the UK Treasury plays along with it.

Yes Gmac983, VAG said they need to compete against Kia, Dacia and Hyundai in Eastern Europe and adjust their products and specs for Skoda accordingly. What will happen here and now with Brexit remains to be seen.

VW Group building in the Czech Republic or Slovakia are in Central European Countries exactly like Hyundai & KIA.

VW Group are employing as cheap labour in whatever country just as any other manufacturer, the difference is VW Group had to pay billions out because they were caught cheating, and expect customers to pay for that and their lifestyle of the management and investors.

 

You never hear VW people saying Audi's built in Hungary are Eastern European cars.

Edited 15 December, 20196 yr by Roottootemoot

I see that there have been several new posts since I started this one a few hours ago, but I'll put it up anyway.

 

Yes, BMW 1 for driving schools, I've seen them too. Similar size to the Scala, Golf, i30, etc. but the BMW's rear 3/4's visibility leaves a lot to be desired with its thick C pillars. (I remember a few years back that the DVLA didn't allow people to take the driving test in either a MINI convertible or a Ford Ka convertible, with their roofs up the rear 3/4's visibility is almost non-existent.)

 

Rear seat width for the Scala and Kamiq is the same - 1425mm.  The Octavia is 1449, the Karoq 1451mm.  The Yeti, fondly remembered by many, 1374mm. In old money, the Scala and Kamiq are narrower than the Octavia and Karoq by an inch. I don't think many would worry about that. I wouldn't.

 

As for differences in overall car length, for me that's largely (no pun intended) irrelevant between the Kamiq and Octavia. I don't need to see several pages from magazines or websites re-posted here to compare dimensions, I'm happy to accept figures quoted in posts. Providing the cars I'm considering are all within around six inches difference in length, I don't care. 

 

PRICE, however, is hugely relevant. For example, Carwow are offering me several pre-reg'd vRS Octavias 245 petrol, 10 miles on the clock, with very minor trim differences (wheels, or leather, etc.) worth a few hundred ££, from a number of dealers. Some are asking around £6k more than others. So price would obviously be the deciding factor.

 

I agree about the easy in and out of the Kamiq, having tried it - the height of the car is fine for me, at a distinctly short @rse  5'6". The Kamiq is lower than most other crossover/small SUV's, widely reported in many reviews.

(For my pal's Karoq,  I almost need a stepladder. Getting out of his wife's MX-5 hardtop is another good laugh, one hand on the pavement then roll out.) 

 

On a separate note, the Octavia hatch has disappeared from the main Skoda configuration pages - it still shows on the introduction pages but the "build your own" link only allows the estate to work.

 

So I repeat, there is a great deal of overlap across sectors. For someone with around £20k looking for a roomy five-door five-seat hatch with a reasonable boot, the Scala, Kamiq, and Octavia all meet that need. That one is like a scaled up Scala, and another has clearly a larger boot, is irrelevant.  

@FlyingGecko

An inch can be the difference between Ooo & Ahaa or so i am told, more important seemingly in the width rather than the length.

 

 

25 minutes ago, FlyingGecko said:

PRICE, however, is hugely relevant. For example, Carwow are offering me several pre-reg'd vRS Octavias 245 petrol, 10 miles on the clock, with very minor trim differences (wheels, or leather, etc.) worth a few hundred ££, from a number of dealers. Some are asking around £6k more than others. So price would obviously be the deciding factor.

 

So I repeat, there is a great deal of overlap across sectors. For someone with around £20k looking for a roomy five-door five-seat hatch with a reasonable boot, the Scala, Kamiq, and Octavia all meet that need. 

 

Everyone will have their own needs but I don't understand this reply. You're not seriously suggesting it'll cost approx. the same to run vRS 245 petrol Octavia against a 1.0 Kamiq?  If someone wanted a car for longer distances then buy the Octavia, if used mostly around town the kamiq would suit better. But if you need a five-seat hatch then there's only one car you can choose. A kamiq may say 5 seats but I certainly wouldn't like to be that 5th person.

 

Reasonable boot? Well that depends on what's 'reasonable'. IMO the Kamiq's boot is reasonable for shopping but not reasonable if your destination is the local golf club.

 

These are two entirely different cars - I very much doubt Skoda will loose any sleep over Kamiq sales loosing out to Octavia.

8 minutes ago, Scot5 said:

 You're not seriously suggesting it'll cost approx. the same to run vRS 245 petrol Octavia against a 1.0 Kamiq? ...

 

...But if you need a five-seat hatch then there's only one car you can choose. A kamiq may say 5 seats but I certainly wouldn't like to be that 5th person...

 

 ...if your destination is the local golf club.

 

... I very much doubt Skoda will loose any sleep over Kamiq sales loosing out to Octavia.

 

 

Not at all. I've never mentioned anything at all about running costs. Nor have I mentioned any consideration of the one litre Kamiq, only the1.5, and in fact expressed a desire for a more powerful engine than that, as in my original post.  I mentioned the prices of the 245s because price relevancy had been brought up.

 

But since you've brought up running costs, first some background on mine. I currently get around 33, 34 mpg from a tankful, in mixed urban and motorway driving, all at legal speeds. On a long run of some 200+ miles, that'll be closer to 39/40 mpg. I keep long term and detailed records and have simplified my figures for ease of comparison. My previous 1.4 litre, 140 bhp Octavia usually exceeded 40 mpg, with over 50 mpg on a long run. The car before that was a Saab 9-5, 2.3 litre, 220 bhp, with performance almost exactly the same as my vRS, but struggled to exceed 27 mpg on the mixed run and 35 on the long drive. So I expect that a 245 vRS would produce similar economy to my 220 vRS and a 1.5 Kamiq would match my previous Octavia. Differences in running costs would clearly favour the Kamiq, even more so the smallest engined version, but where would be the fun in that? (A rhetorical question.) However if fuel cost were the prime factor then clearly any Kamiq would be much cheaper to run than an Octavia vRS. I'm ignoring diesel engines completely because I can't stand the smell of it.

 

It seems for you the extra inch width in the Octavia is paramount. I wouldn't expect that to be the case for the majority of rear seat passengers; having sat in the back of both cars with two people of considerably greater girth and height than I, none of us noticed any difference, whoever was in the middle seat. We were all comfortable in both cars.

 

I presume you have already tried to put a set of golf clubs in a Kamiq, and failed. I suggest folding them in half or cutting the ends off. A good walk spoiled, as Mark Twain didn't say. No offence intended. My brother-in-law plays at least three times a week and sometimes agrees with that sentiment.

 

"A horse has escaped from the field and is running loose"

"Manchester United are losing their match."

 

I stayed away from Briskoda for a few years.

I think I'll do that again.

Cheerio all.

 

 

24 minutes ago, Roottootemoot said:

 

 

That test car sums up the problem with the Kamiq the value is near the bottom of the range as this press vehicle was 38,000 Euro's, way too much for a 4 metre 5 door hatch.

Value and price are not the same thing and those buying or leasing might decide the value of something.

If nobody buys new and yet there are ones built then eventually someone gets 'much cheapness'.

The Octavia is in a different league to the Kamiq. Boot space is paramount for a family car, and the Octavia is light years ahead of the Kamiq, and most cars in the class above too.

 

There is so much confusion over on-paper or quoted internal dimensions that I no longer trust anything other than my eyes.

 

Kamiq = small, Octavia = cavernous...

 

 

Edited 22 December, 20196 yr by silver1011