Fitment of Gasoline Particulate Filter (GPF) to Fabia Mark III

[Guest]

Your understanding is pretty good  John. There is no regen on a GPF in the same way as there is on a DPF. It isn't required. But when/if a partial blockage occurs the procedure above should be implemented. During the procedure some tiny amount of ash does get ejected, but mostly all that happens is the debris gets a good shake up which unclogs the filter, allowing the ash (which is mostly harmless) to settle in a collection chamber. It will take a car lifetime to fill this area for most people. 

 

My own car is 15 months old and has covered 31,000 miles. I did most of that mileage whilst working on my last engine development project before retirement. It is a turbo petrol car with a GPF. The last 8k miles has been town and urban work, stop start from cold etc. No issues with GPF. In my garage I have two GPF's that I cut open ready for examination while on the engine project (didn't need them in the end). Both over 2.5 years old, both with in excess of 75k on them. Neither of them has any real amount of debris in them. Both good for another 75k. GPF's are not a new concept, there won't be any settling in of the technology. It's been about for years in some quarters. Although they may seem similar, DPF's & GPF's are not the same thing and should not be compared. Yes they both filter exhaust gases but as said earlier, DPF'S have a very different life and work differently. 

Edited 27 October, 2019 by GeneralPurpose

[Ootohere]

@GeneralPurpose  Sounds like your GPF was operating in ideal conditions and higher miles annually to start with and now maybe more as many small petrol turbo's might get used.

Citroen / PSA were ahead of the game with WLTP & RDE and had the figures available early on, VW Group were very much the last that were getting their vehicles WLPT approved.

 

Your car is a Citroen is it not, who is the manufacturer of the GPF on it.

& what cars /engines were the GPF's you opened fitted to, and who were yje manufacturers of these GPF's and are they the same type / brand as on VW Group 

1.0, 1.5 or 2.0 TSI's?

 

http://dieselnet.com/tech/gasoline_particulate_filters.php

 

Maybe the mention of Ford's with GPF issues is an Urban / Internet Myth since they were early in there with 3 cylinder small Petrol Turbo engines and then fitting GPF's to those and getting WLTP Approval & RDE results.

(What would a small volume global car producer like Ford know anyway about R&D compared to VW Group ! )

 

 

 

This is from the Hypermer.co.uk website linked earlier.

 

Edited 27 October, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[Ootohere]

I notice in the Motoring Journalist Articles on the new VW Golf Mk8 that the 1.0 TSI engines are being said to have lower BHP than the 1.0TSI's being fitted to the Scala / Kamiq and other VW Group cars with 1.0TSI's.

Maybe something to do with the ones that will be getting the Light Hybrid set up.

Maybe just mistakes in the Media Packs. Somebody might know why there is a down powering if there is.

Like someone might know why the bigger Hybrids got a 1.4 TSI and not a 1.5 TSI, was it to do with having no need for ACT or for other reasons.

?

Do the TSI's with Light Hybrid or hybrid have GPF's?

 

 

 

 

Edited 27 October, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[Dannyboy85]

21 hours ago, bigjohn said:

With particulate filters I thought what remained after a regen was a small amount of ash which eventually fills the filter up - hopefully after many 100'000's of miles unless the wrong oil etc has been used. I don't think the ash is expelled - when full a new filter is required. An OPF/GPF/PPF replacement should be much cheaper than a DPF and with petrol all regens should be passive (hotter combustion).

 

That was my understanding anyway - to be honest I'll wait a while until the technology settles as many early implementations of DPF's weren't great (inc Octavia VRS pd!)

 

However I don't think OPF/GPF/PPF YET fitted to the Original poster's MPI (not direct injection) engine 

I think the big difference here is ultimately there isn’t the ash present on petrol as diesel.   As well as the construction doesn’t need regens. I’ve got 20k on mine and plenty of other with more than that.. yet to hear of any clogging or needing a replacement. Granted we don’t have 100k motors over the 100k mile marker yet.. 

Edited 27 October, 2019 by Dannyboy85

[Ootohere]

@Dannyboy85

The thing is that your are doing the miles and since you remapped your engine i take it you take advantage of enjoying your car.

Are there really that many 1.0TSI's with over 20,000 miles on them?

We will see if all is fine with then after the manufacturers warranty, but then if a GPF is just a consumable as mentioned in earlier threads then no big deal if not expensive.

[Dannyboy85]

1 minute ago, Roottootemoot said:

@Dannyboy85

The thing is that your are doing the miles and since you remapped your engine i take it you take advantage of enjoying your car.

Are there really that many 1.0TSI's with over 20,000 miles on them?

We will see if all is fine with then after the manufacturers warranty, but then if a GPF is just a consumable as mentioned in earlier threads then no big deal if not expensive.

I’m assuming mine isn’t the highest mileage. But as you say it’s been mapped since 5k so in theory should be more at risk.. time will tell but as above after owning many diesels it’s doubtful we will see many problems on petrol. Note this isn’t a comment backed by evidence but of all the diesels chucking out plumes of soot only a few have issues.  

[Ootohere]

& the TDI / SCR DSG i have run for nearly 3 years chucks out no smoke and has an issue running a few short trips for a few days in a row and regens and then has a clogged DPF, 

started just sipping AdBlue after the 2nd fill up,  and can do near 60 mpg on runs and as low as 20 mpg of a few days of short trips with cold starts.

I will see how mu 1.0TSI Kamiq is as buying it as a keeper.

I have a 13 year old 3.2 litre diesel Auto 4x4 and it is not chucking out much visible soot but maybe many particles, and it gets as good economy as some lighter 2.0 TDI 4x4 auto SUV's.

Also my 8 year old 1.6 n/a petrol auto gets better economy than a 1.0 / 1.2 TSI DSG.

Edited 27 October, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[Dannyboy85]

13 minutes ago, Roottootemoot said:

& the TDI / SCR DSG i have run for nearly 3 years chucks out no smoke and has an issue running a few short trips for a few days in a row and regens and then has a clogged DPF, 

started just sipping AdBlue after the 2nd fill up,  and can do near 60 mpg on runs and as low as 20 mpg of a few days of short trips with cold starts.

I will see how mu 1.0TSI Kamiq is as buying it as a keeper.

I have a 13 year old 3.2 litre diesel Auto 4x4 and it is not chucking out much visible soot but maybe many particles, and it gets as good economy as some lighter 2.0 TDI 4x4 auto SUV's.

Also my 8 year old 1.6 n/a petrol auto gets better economy than a 1.0 / 1.2 TSI DSG.

I’ve had so far a 58 plate1.6 tdi octy pretty smoky. No dpf issues but plenty of miles.. got rid due to the new mot and barely passed. 07 Audi 1.6 again slightly sooty especially when sat for a few days no issues except for mot. Mapped a3 1.6 no smoke no problem. 14 plate octy 80k only done city miles no problems no smoke returns well over 60mpg. Our current cars are my 68 plate fabia and a 69 octy sportline that has about 100 miles on.. 

[Galileu]

I have a 2019 1.0TSI Golf Variant GPF.

 

After 13000km I have read it out with OBDeleven. Result:

0.66g oil ash (out of 200g max)

 

So at this rate I can do 4 million miles. Economy is great at 5l/100km at the pump (56 uk mpg)

 

[Dannyboy85]

4 minutes ago, Galileu said:

I have a 2019 1.0TSI Golf Variant GPF.

 

After 13000km I have read it out with OBDeleven. Result:

0.66g oil ash (out of 200g max)

 

So at this rate I can do 4 million miles. Economy is great at 5l/100km at the pump (56 uk mpg)

 

I didn’t think of that I’ll read mine and see what it says. 

[Galileu]

2 minutes ago, Dannyboy85 said:

I didn’t think of that I’ll read mine and see what it says. 

My old 2010 Golf 6 1.6 TDI was at 68 (out of 70g “stated” max) when it crossed 300k km (186k miles). I would not worry about it, temperatures and conditions are very much in favor of the GPF and the issues with DPFs were/are mainly with people not hitting the right temperatures/conditions because of their short journeys. 
Actually my GPF never has done an active regen while it was the case every 600km in the 1.6TDI Golf.

[Dannyboy85]

5 minutes ago, Galileu said:

My old 2010 Golf 6 1.6 TDI was at 68 (out of 70g “stated” max) when it crossed 300k km (186k miles). I would not worry about it, temperatures and conditions are very much in favor of the GPF and the issues with DPFs were/are mainly with people not hitting the right temperatures/conditions because of their short journeys. 
Actually my GPF never has done an active regen while it was the case every 600km in the 1.6TDI Golf.

I’m personally not worried at all about it but some are and I am interested to see what mine says for science. Hahha

[Guest]

Even mapped Danny, yours will be fine if she's running sweet. We mapped several test engines as part of our development work with no adverse effects. Many of the engines running GPF's had been running for over 3 years without GPF issues. As you very rightly say above, petrol and diesel filtration systems work differently, under different conditions and cannot in reality be compared. Although that is what several folk are mistakenly doing here. It is however understandable that they are doing this because the technical side of the GPF is still not clear to people, or the different conditions DPF's work under compared to the GPF.

 

During my last contract earlier in the year, the engines we were developing concentrated on killing the particulates in the cylinder, AND in the GPF. So little debris was created there wasn't much for the GPF to actually do.

 

To be clear, it was the engines I was primarily testing and developing, not the GPF's. A consequence of this meant intense monitoring of the GPF's, cutting them open to ultimately check the contents. Nothing was left to chance, measurement has to be precise. OBD is good but not as accurate as needed for our work. This data was collected and used in my overall work of developing our engine control systems ie: software, induction and exhaust, cylinder head design etc. We had people developing GPF design but that isn't what I did. Having seen what I've seen, I'd be very surprised to see issues with GPF's. 

 

Regarding what George posted to reference Ford GPF issues, and I'm speculating based upon third party knowledge from other engineers I spoken to. The main issue I believe is the engines and their control systems, NOT the GPF's. I'd remind everyone the eco boost engines have in the past had a very bad reputation from a number of angles. They make the twin charger VAG group debacle look comparatively mild and has cost Ford a small fortune to try to put right. It is finally becoming a better engine but not sure it's quite there yet.

[Ootohere]

@GeneralPurpose

Which cars / models / manufacturers, that had been running GPF's for over 3 years were you testing,

and what engines did they have?

 

The point about the Engines and their control systems is really getting to the point.

VW Group scandals are about ECU's / Software & Engine Management and Bosch.

They had Defeat Devices, and are still being investigated on 2nd defeat devices, so when they do build a good engine parts wise they can still be at it just to get WLTP / RDE results.

 

Time will tell how VW Group and GPF's go after 3 years of owners driving them and future expenses as GPF's need replacing if they do need replacing.

[Ootohere]

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/479195-car-behaving-strangely

 

[Ootohere]

Bump for @Warrior193

[Warrior193]

1 hour ago, Ootohere said:

Bump for @Warrior193

No issues with SWMBOs Fabia to date, will keep that GPF cleaning recommendation in mind though.

[Ootohere]

@Warrior193  I bumped for you to see.  Are you sure her car has a GPF if built or first registered in 2017?

[Warrior193]

1 minute ago, Ootohere said:

@Warrior193  I bumped for you to see.  Are you sure her car has a GPF if built or first registered in 2017?

Hers is 2018, but the information I have is that they started fitting GPF to the 1.0 TSI sometime in 2017. 

[Ootohere]

@Warrior193  I can and am often wrong, i might be again. But i do try to be up on what happened and when.

Someone can maybe correct me if they had a GPF pre summer break at the factory 2018.

 

Maybe they were fitted ready for September 2017 and the transition to the WLTP.