juddering at 60mph and above

[eldrak21]

Ok, car went into the garage yesterday and I had a little update today after phoning. The mechanic is now ruling out the rear silencer as being of any cause and is inclined to think the problem may be the haldex system (I think he also mentioned drivetrain suspicion, I may be wrong with this though - my work van also broke down today so I have information overload atm with dealing with ongoing problems on van). He has ordered some haldex oil which shall arrive tomorrow and he will top up however he told me that he placed a small bit of wire inside the haldex to check oil and the tiny bit that was inserted didnt show any oil inside. He won't know how empty it is until he tops it up. I also had this thought a while back as the garage that done my haldex oil and filter change last year had a right royal pain doing the job.

See here for details on another thread. Did this other garage put enough oil into haldex in the end? If they lost some from leaking issues did they purchase another oil tube or just bung what was left from the one tube? How would I prove this to the previous garage if this was the case? Am I screwed?  Could the issues with noise be caused by haldex whereby:

 

the noise dissapears when clutch is pressed,

it's louder in certain speed & gear ranges. The noise is now more present whatever the speed/gear. A deep rumble with occasional rattle thrown in which disapears when clutch is pressed. The mechanic checked again the flywheel and reiterated that there is only a little play and nothing to really warrant changing it over just yet.

 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. This car is getting worse unfortunately and I really can't be in another situation just now where I have to scrap and start again. 😪

Edited 8 January, 2020 by eldrak21

[eldrak21]

Ok, another update.

 

After picking up the car the mechanic advised that he found small bits of metal when he renewed the haldex oil (it's only done about 5 or 6k since the last haldex oil change) but he is sure that the haldex is not the problem. He topped up the rear diff oil and said it took about 100ml. He said the diff oil was quite smelly ( I actually forgot to ask him to change the diff oil but he is going to do so before MOT next month). He also pointed out that there was a little oil around the driveshaft seals.

He can't say exactly where that very loud rumbling noise is coming from and recommends to keep driving it until it gets worse and becomes easier to diagnose. I am not particularly in favour of this as for me, it has gotten a lot worse already!

The noise dissapears when I put my foot on the clutch and sometimes it's hard to have a conversation with someone in the back due to them not hearing me properly over the noise as it comes from the rear.

 

He knows I don't have a lot of cash to spare and is doing what he can to assist but I need to know whats up so I can better decide what to do! Yes the flywheel needs done which I would do but I am not inclined to do so if something like the rear diff is also needing replaced. I love this car, LOVE it and I want to keep it but realistically ....

 

Unfortanately my last car unexpectedally had problems which meant getting rid of it suddenly. I had to take out a loan to cover remaining finance plus buy another (this octavia) so for this car to now be in this position, I am a bit up ****'s creek.

 

If anyone can offer any suggestions it would be much appreciated 🙂

 

I just want it diagnosed! WTF is that noise/vibration

Edited 13 January, 2020 by eldrak21

[KenONeill]

16 minutes ago, eldrak21 said:

WTF is that noise/vibration

I don't know, but I do know that the most efficient way of getting a diagnosis is to ask your question once, in the correct forum, rather than spamming multiple fora.

[eldrak21]

31 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

I don't know, but I do know that the most efficient way of getting a diagnosis is to ask your question once, in the correct forum, rather than spamming multiple fora.

Thank you for your reply.

I was providing an update to previous posts discussing this and other issues, I would hardly consider it spamming though.

[KenONeill]

12 minutes ago, eldrak21 said:

previous posts discussing this and other issues,

Big hint; I'm no longer clear as to which type of vehicle you actually have. Unfortunate, when some issues are specific to vehicle type.

[eldrak21]

1 minute ago, KenONeill said:

Big hint; I'm no longer clear as to which type of vehicle you actually have. Unfortunate, when some issues are specific to vehicle type.

Yes after rechecking I noticed I had replied some time ago to someone in the yeti section. I just wanted to provide an update to the people that had replied to me

[4 wheel driver]

Update, as promised:

Visited main dealer and asked to speak to mechanic regarding the intermittent juddering ( which started this topic )

Was told mechanic was too busy.  Receptionist took my written description of the problem into the workshop.

Returned saying mechanic said car needed new PROPSHAFT. The rear coupling had failed. Cost to fix approx £ 540.

To my mind a failed propshaft  would not give intermittent symptoms.

Took car to a local independent VAG specialist. They test drove it and did various checks.  Their conclusion was that it either had a buckled wheel or the wheels needed balancing.

I explained that the juddering was not continuous and that I had driven the car at speed the day before without experiencing any shaking/juddering. This did not affect their diagnosis/conclusions.

Not convinced I brought the car home.

I did have the HALDEX CLUTCH filter and strainer cleaned and oil replaced  whilst at the VAG garage. ( Car had done 30K miles since previous haldex service done at 28K miles. )  Since then I have experienced no problem and have driven at speed.

This could all be coincidental but the problem to date has gone away...let's hope for good.  Keeping my fingers crossed.

[KenONeill]

10 hours ago, 4 wheel driver said:

a failed propshaft  would not give intermittent symptoms

It could in this case, because Haldex is not permanent 4wd.

[Andy Sayle]

13 hours ago, 4 wheel driver said:

Update, as promised:

Visited main dealer and asked to speak to mechanic regarding the intermittent juddering ( which started this topic )

Was told mechanic was too busy.  Receptionist took my written description of the problem into the workshop.

Returned saying mechanic said car needed new PROPSHAFT. The rear coupling had failed. Cost to fix approx £ 540.

To my mind a failed propshaft  would not give intermittent symptoms.

 

 

That's what it was on mine.  An intermittent juddery vibration that depended on road speed and engine load as to whether it was felt.  The rear propshaft damper was the cause, the outer mass balance ring was about 80% loose.  New one fitted, vibration gone for good.

 

As I've said before (I think) get under the car, look for the back end of the propshaft, and there is a metal ring, just in front of the haldex/rear diff unit.  This is bonded to the inner bit of the rear propshaft coupling with rubber pads.  I'll put money on it that these pads are partially broken or loose, and that the ring can be moved forward and backwards relatively easily by hand.  (look for movement between where the rubber joins the metal ring.  it will appear to slide, instead of the rubber flex.  There will more than likely be some corrosion under the rubber as well.).

 

[ejstubbs]

2 hours ago, KenONeill said:

It could in this case, because Haldex is not permanent 4wd.

 

But the propshaft is permanently driven, is it not?  AUIU it's the transmission of torque from the propshaft to the rear wheels that is mediated by the Haldex' hydro-electrickerial magic.  If the propshaft is loose somewhere, or the vibrational damping is compromised as per Andy Sayle's case, then it can misbehave even when it's not delivering drive as such to the rear wheels.

[4 wheel driver]

Update: Inspected the underside on ramp and coupling ring at haldex end of propshaft as suggested. No appreciable wear, slop or cracking evident on rubber or ring. 

Noticed o/ s front caliper was sticking , disc evidence of heat but ok. Front pads changed. Also rear n/s  spring last half to three quarter inch broken off at bottom. No symptoms but replaced it anyway. Have not experienced symptoms since haldex clutch  filter, strainer and oil changed. Could be coincidence. Only time will tell.

Thanks for interest and suggestions.