33 minutes ago, Ed81 said:

Have you applied a pedal box ln your diesel, or only remap? 

Sorry, phone issues 😅

2 hours ago, penguin17 said:

I've tried both a tuning box and a remap on the 181bhp VW TDI unit.  In both cases the outcome was better than stock.  I feel the (stock) engine just doesn't perform as well as the numbers would suggest and I actually prefer the lower powered 150ps unit; the power is more accessible for more of the time and you don't need to be at silly speed/revs to exploit the available power.  Remapped though the engine feels pretty good (but still gruff!)

 

Tuning box pros: 

• Relatively cheap 
• Easily fitted/removed 
• Noticeable gains over stock
• Arguably warranty friendly (still leave a trace IMO but much harder to detect/prove VS remap and TD1 flag)

Tuning box cons:

• Erratic power delivery on some settings
• Never really feels like 'OEM power delivery'
• You do have to fettle with settings to find something suited to your car/driving style
• They work by spoofing ECU signals, so you never really know how much overboost and overfuelling is going on and if it's really operating within safe parameters. 

I bought a Bluespark tuning box and never once, on any setting experienced a limp mode, fault or warning.  Worth checking IMO as they are well regarded across several forums and they don't try and charge silly money, pretending that the box is loaded with 'maps' and that they have a huge R&D budget...cough ahem DTUK 🙄

 

Remap pros:

•  Proven R&D
•  Improves drivability and power delivery
•  Improved fuel consumption (~5% calculated via brim-to-brim)
•  Fuelling, boost etc should all be within safe parameters.  
•  Works in harmony with ECU/drivetrain
•  Can be removed and re-flashed via OBDII port.  
•  Transformed the car to what it should be from the factory

 

Cons: 

• The same company who insured me for a tuning box wouldn't for a remap (underwriter policy) so I had to go elsewhere (subjective)
• Be prepared to void your warranty (TD1 flag)
• Need visit the tuner to have the remap removed/re-flashed 
• Can be more expensive depending on the tuner and/or the tuning box seller (Revo remap is actually cheaper than equivalent DTUK box) 

I've used Revo for remaps on a couple of cars now and found them to be excellent in every regard. Typically agents are well regarded independent specialists so I'd always go to them rather than a dealer anyway as they understand both how the cars work and know about the remaps they're installing too.  I knew I fundamentally kissed goodbye to the warranties on two newish cars but I took the risk and just used the independent specialist for all maintenance work.  The cars never went near the dealer network but luckily enough  they were completely fault free in tens of thousands of miles.  

 

In my limited experience of using both I'd go for a remap every time.  FWIW, my insurance went up £50 by declaring both a remap and a tuning box (subjective)

 

 

 

 

Thanks a lot for the detailed information. 

 

Here in Sweden the price between a remap and a tuning box differs approx £100.

 

So the question that remains is; should I try a tuning box, since it can be removed if it starts causing problems. 

(what if I get engine problems, will the car workshop notice? 

 

Or should I go with the remap, because it's more accurate and trustable ..??!! 

Once you have conducted a remap, you can't reprogram the system and hide the remapp.. Right?! 

57 minutes ago, Ed81 said:

Were the boxes applied on a diesel or petrol engine? 

Petrol, twas 2007 I last used the fuel of Satan😉😉😉😉

2 hours ago, shyVRS245 said:

I'm very honest with my dealer when I remap a car I tell them because I'm confident there will be no problems with reliability and I have never had to make a warranty claim on a remapped car yet my wife's standard Karoq has had 2 issues now resolved under warranty which were faults engineered in by Sokda due to poor development and supplier faulty parts.

Well lucky you, that's in GB. We apply different rules in Sweden 😊

 

I don't know what the insurance Co. Say about remapping the car and warranty 🤔 I can't really call and ask, since my call will be registered.. I have to find out somewhere else.. 

9 minutes ago, Ed81 said:

 

Once you have conducted a remap, you can't reprogram the system and hide the remapp.. Right?! 

You can remap the car back to standard HOWEVER, the Qsum counter on the ECU sees & recalls EVERYTHING.

 

A Remap is a one way journey, have one done & you'll get a TD1 flag, can't be hacked either

Edited 11 February, 20206 yr by themanwithnoaim

2 minutes ago, themanwithnoaim said:

You can remap the car back to standard HOWEVER, the Qsum counter on the ECU sees & recalls EVERYTHING.

 

A Remap is a one way journey, have one done & you'll get a TD1 flag, can't be hacked either

Ok, makes sense now. 

Thanks 👍

3 hours ago, j1mg said:

I had a DTUK Tuning box for a while, ended up taking it off as I was bored of limp mode - on all settings that made any noticeable difference. The pedal box however is well worth the money.

So what pedal box would you recommend, racechip or dte (dtuk) i assume the same manufacturer but UK version or?! 

Just now, Ed81 said:

Ok, makes sense now. 

Thanks 👍

TBH. DTUK/DTE whom I've used (exclusively on Petrols) do get limp modes in colder weather on higher boost settings. If @penguin17 experience with the Bluespark tunningbox was on a TDI, I'd say it's the one for you although, if you create really expensive bang & cause lots of warranty work/cost the OEM will see its outside warranty.

 

That said IIRC it's a 3rd party insurance & not an OEM warranty you have. Please confirm if this engine insurance of yours is OEM or 3rd party as it 3rd party DON'T have the investigative tools readily available that an OEM would

2 hours ago, Ed81 said:

Thanks a lot for the detailed information. 

 

Here in Sweden the price between a remap and a tuning box differs approx £100.

 

So the question that remains is; should I try a tuning box, since it can be removed if it starts causing problems. 

(what if I get engine problems, will the car workshop notice? 

 

Or should I go with the remap, because it's more accurate and trustable ..??!! 

Once you have conducted a remap, you can't reprogram the system and hide the remapp.. Right?! 

In theory, any problems with a tuning box should 'go-away' once the box is removed.  Often the tuning boxes will come with a bypass to their harness so you can return it to stock without having to fully disconnect everything.  I'm not sure what DTC's are thrown when a tuning box causes limp mode but I would guess that the errors are fuelling, common rail/turbo pressure related.  In theory a dealer could spot the faults if they do a scan and know that they could be attributed to a box being connected at some point.  VW/Audi aren't stupid and I've seen tech bulletins being posted on forums regarding such things so perhaps dealers will know what to look for.  Audi in particular started to clamp down on tuning and my friend got caught short with a Bluefin remap and had his warranty revoked on an almost new £60K Audi A6 Bi-TDI, so I know it's not a forum myth.   All worse case scenario of course. 

 

I've been toying with getting my current car remapped or even fitting a JB4 tuning box to try keep the warranty intact but I think I'll be keeping this car and it's been the most expensive car I've bought.  I'd like to keep the warranty intact as a Haldex or DSG problem would be expensive if the warranty wouldn't cover it.  So in that regard, I just don't feel 100% confident in taking the risk.  So whilst I can afford the remap and the insurance, I can't afford to take on big repair bills (which could easily occur with or without tuning, I'm not saying a remapped car becomes a ticking time-bomb because I know from experience that's simply not the case).

 

Perhaps if you are saving £100 by getting the box then you could take that money and buy an OBDEleven dongle?  That way you can scan your car routinely to ensure the box isn't causing any problems and you can also clear down fault codes should they arise.  You can also then enabled a few other mods too.  

 

I personally would say the remap is the safest option in terms of not potentially causing problems but that's only if you use a reputable tuner, a bad remap would be equal to a worse than a tuning box.  The only issue is that regardless of what ways you can potentially hide the remap,  or try to, you may as well just assume your warranty will be void and then consider both options with that in mind.  

If you live in sweeten with the weather I would stay well away from a box tbh because they will make the car very awkward in cold weather. A proper map done in the country where it is written will perform in all conditions.. 

I’ll just leave this chart here from my remap. Yea it would be expensive but When you get  results like this. Proper custom map. Written from scratch on rolling road and for 20miles our on various real roads. 
works in all temperatures including -15 in Austria and Germany with no limp mode lights etc 
this is on a 190 4x4 superb dsg with dpf and adblue 

gearbox must be mapped to make the most of it. 
notice how box and ecu limits the torque to 400nm when not mapped. Will a tuning box remove the torque limiter from the gearbox... uuurm nope... 

Most of the tuning box firms sell a box for engine, box for pedal, plug in device for dsg gearbox.

add those up it’s more expensive than a  custom map and dsg tune to suit all done on a rolling road... hmmmm now not such good value are they these many boxes plugged in fooling the components 

 

 

Edited 11 February, 20206 yr by Esseesse200

And just another little side note. Some tuners I believe can reset the car to true stock If warrantee problem happens. True stock means original software with no traces. Exactly as before the map. With exactly the software it went in with before the map.. But only some have the gear to do this. 
so I’m lead to believe but I may be wrong. The original map isn’t modified so it’s saved and kept. Therefore if needed can be put back on And a new map is written by programming the controller from scratch as the manufacturer would have done...  You’d have to speak to the mappers regarding this but I know the one I used does that 

This might sound cheeky, but seriously.. Guys thank you so much for all valuable information, it's highly appreciated and I am truly grateful for all the help!!! 

 

Let me give you a briefing after all info, I believe I've made up my mind. 

 

I'll go with the remapping option. 

 

After doing some research I found that the difference in price of a pedal box and chipbox vs remap is approx £50. 

Correct me if I'm wrong 🙄

 

One of the major engine optimizers are based in Stockholm (where I live) and they've offered me a engine optimization and gearbox (note I have a dag) optimization for €499+299=798 with 1 year engine warranty plus setting back the mapping to stock if desired. 

 

Stock 184hp,380nm

Optimization 225hp,480nm

 

Whereas the chipbox and pedal box costs almost the same.. 

 

AM I missing anything here, please fill in if so.. Since you are mentioning a lot about the cost.. 

 

Once again thank you all for the support 🙏

Edited 11 February, 20206 yr by Ed81

20 minutes ago, Ed81 said:

This might sound cheeky, but seriously.. Guys thank you so much for all valuable information, it's highly appreciated and I am truly grateful for all the help!!! 

 

Let me give you a briefing after all info, I believe I've made up my mind. 

 

I'll go with the remapping option. 

 

After doing some research I found that the difference in price of a pedal box and chipbox vs remap is approx £50. 

Correct me if I'm wrong 🙄

 

One of the major engine optimizers are based in Stockholm (where I live) and they've offered me a engine optimization and gearbox (note I have a dag) optimization for €499+299=798 with 1 year engine warranty plus setting back the mapping to stock if desired. 

 

Stock 184hp,380nm

Optimization 225hp,480nm

 

Whereas the chipbox and pedal box costs almost the same.. 

 

AM I missing anything here, please fill in if so.. Since you are mentioning a lot about the cost.. 

 

Once again thank you all for the support 🙏

I’ve just been onto the dtuk site in the uk. For a tuning box, pedal box and gearbox flash it works out at over €1100. All just plug in and nothing custom. You could get A LOT of tuners time and proper custom mapping for that price. So YES you are doing the right thing with the remap 

11 hours ago, j1mg said:

I had a DTUK Tuning box for a while, ended up taking it off as I was bored of limp mode - on all settings that made any noticeable difference. The pedal box however is well worth the money.

 

Hear hear. I was disappointed to have to remove the DTUK box, as it was able to give a decent power boost. But same as yourself, limp mode and a 'scare' driving meant it had to go.

 

I've found using the pedal box on it's own is quite good. I did used to have it in the ECO setting, but bumping it up to SPORT has proven to give a good few smiles.

Good to see you have chosen the right path despite a couple of folks trying to send you in the wrong direction. My tuner one of the best in the UK would charge £500 for the remap of the engine and £300 for the DSG remap so your Swedish tuner is not over charging you, seems like a fair deal.

36 minutes ago, shyVRS245 said:

Good to see you have chosen the right path despite a couple of folks trying to send you in the wrong direction. My tuner one of the best in the UK would charge £500 for the remap of the engine and £300 for the DSG remap so your Swedish tuner is not over charging you, seems like a fair deal.

Thanks, yeah I believe it's a good deal and it feels a lot better now when you've confirmed a fair price 👍

 

I'll let you guys know and will keep you updated with the tuning and how the car performs afterwards 👊