Hi folks,

 

I'm a medium-term reader but new member here. I'm on my second Skoda, a 66-plate Octavia vRS TDi, bought in October through Approved Used at ~46k and which has just been serviced at 55k. It has full dealer service history and 15 months of Approved Used warranty to run.

 

The servicing (Skoda main) dealer has observed that the car appeared to them to be 'running poorly, like it's running on three cylinders'. There are no warning lights of any sort showing. I hadn't noticed anything myself (if there had been performance degradation I put it down to 'getting used' to the car - previous was a 1.0TSI Fabia). They are suggesting diagnostics to rule out anything simple (e.g. blocked injector). They suspect a seizing dual-mass flywheel (DMF). They are estimating £600+VAT to remove and refit the gearbox for purpose of diagnosing the issue, and £1600+VAT for diagnostics, replacement of the DMF and clutch (at my request).

 

A few questions if I may...

 

1. Does the jump from simple engine diagnostics to taking the gearbox out seem like a sensible and logical fault-finding progression to you?
2. Are the cost estimates in the right ballpark?
3. Would you expect the Approved Used warranty to cover this work? I would, and the dealer does if the flywheel is the fault...but there are no guarantees in life!
4. Is it sensible or over-cautious to swap the clutch at the same time as the flywheel if the flywheel does need replacing? Dealer has suggested this will be at my cost i.e. not possible via warranty.
5. If the flywheel is not found to be faulty, is there anything else you might suggest could be?
6. What line would you take with the dealer if they don't find a flywheel fault and then want £600+VAT to suggest there is a fault and then fail to find it? e.g. would I be sensible to suggest they keep looking?!

 

Hope that all makes sense but happy to clarify if not. Thank you in advance!

 

BB

I had my DMF fail on my mk2 Octavia back in 2008 at abouut 52k. It was more of a juddering clutch when changing gear and went from a ragiddy gear change to complete failure within a couple of days and had to be recovered by the AA. 

 

Even back then it cost about £1200 to get repaired so your quote isnt far out. But how it goes from failing injectors to a DMF does seem odd. 

 

There is plenty on DMFs on this site and searching for failures was infact how I found this site! 

That's a lot of money. I'd expect a main Skoda dealer to know exactly what is wrong before you need to pay any over. They must have seen failed flywheels before. 

If really seems like a problem, take it to an independent specialist for a second more honest opinion and more reasonable parts and especially labour rates. 

I would expect you would notice a car running as if on only 3 cylinders, they do seem to be jumping about in their diagnosis, I would be tempted to follow the above advise and take it for a second look elsewhere   

Thanks for the replies, folks.

 

9 hours ago, threadbear said:

I had my DMF fail on my mk2 Octavia back in 2008 at abouut 52k. It was more of a juddering clutch when changing gear and went from a ragiddy gear change to complete failure within a couple of days and had to be recovered by the AA. 

 

Even back then it cost about £1200 to get repaired so your quote isnt far out. But how it goes from failing injectors to a DMF does seem odd. 

 

There is plenty on DMFs on this site and searching for failures was infact how I found this site! 

 

I wouldn't describe the clutch or gear change as feeling juddery or ragged. I can hear a metallic sound when I depress the clutch pedal but that wasn't really cause for concern until now. I think I need to take the car out this evening and have a careful listen.

 

4 hours ago, TDIum said:

That's a lot of money. I'd expect a main Skoda dealer to know exactly what is wrong before you need to pay any over. They must have seen failed flywheels before. 

If really seems like a problem, take it to an independent specialist for a second more honest opinion and more reasonable parts and especially labour rates. 

 

It is a lot of money! And I don't really want to gamble £700 on what is no more than a suspected fault. But, I also don't want to wait for it to go pop whilst on the motorway etc. It didn't seem like there was a problem until the servicing dealer suggested there was one.

 

3 hours ago, seriesdriver said:

I would expect you would notice a car running as if on only 3 cylinders, they do seem to be jumping about in their diagnosis, I would be tempted to follow the above advise and take it for a second look elsewhere   

 

Yeah, and I haven't. I'll take it out this evening (I tend to only drive it at weekends) and see if anything feels much different. The issue may have cropped-up in the past couple of hundred miles. I can also phone a few different dealers, including an independent I trust.

 

 

Thanks again.

Find a new dealer...

 

many gear boxes have inspection holes and for those that don’t they can remove the starter to check the DMF.

 

Neither of those are a £600 gearbox off job.

 

Something else to note is that there was a number of people who reported an issue with one brand of clutch, where the release mechanism could fail in such a way that it would still work, but slowly that eat away and the housing from the inside if it occurred.

 

Sure someone will chip in with a link.

Edited 9 July, 20205 yr by cheezemonkhai

" Something else to note is that there was a number of people who reported an issue with one brand of clutch, where the release mechanism could fail in such a way that it would still work, but slowly that eat away and the housing from the inside if it occurred. "

 

I think this is the post referred to.

 

I think it only applies to the 2l diesel.

 

If the noise is your gearbox being slowly eaten, then the cost will be much more if left.

 

If VW take the clutch apart & find the gearbox damaged, they should pay for the repairs.

Thanks again. Really encouraging to have an active and supportive community like this available!

10 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Find a new dealer...

 

many gear boxes have inspection holes and for those that don’t they can remove the starter to check the DMF.

 

Neither of those are a £600 gearbox off job.

 

Something else to note is that there was a number of people who reported an issue with one brand of clutch, where the release mechanism could fail in such a way that it would still work, but slowly that eat away and the housing from the inside if it occurred.

 

Sure someone will chip in with a link.

 

I've phoned around a bit today. All of the main dealers I spoke to proposed the same sort of thing and same sort of cost when I described a possible fault in non-leading terms. I have no reason to doubt your knowledge but are you sure this flywheel can be inspected as you describe? If so, there's obviously a conspiracy amongst dealers!

 

8 hours ago, PipH said:

" Something else to note is that there was a number of people who reported an issue with one brand of clutch, where the release mechanism could fail in such a way that it would still work, but slowly that eat away and the housing from the inside if it occurred. "

 

I think this is the post referred to.

 

I think it only applies to the 2l diesel.

 

If the noise is your gearbox being slowly eaten, then the cost will be much more if left.

 

If VW take the clutch apart & find the gearbox damaged, they should pay for the repairs.

 

I have read that thread but was unsure whether the 60 plate Superb would have the same setup as my 66 plate Octavia. Really hoping there isn't further damage. I'll fight tooth and nail for warranty repairs as necessary, but everything's easier if they aren't necessary! 

 

 

I have agreed with another dealer for one of their technicians to take the car out for a test-drive tomorrow and to get their opinion on the possible issue(s) FOC. Will see what comes of that.

 

Cheers.

If you look on the dmf thread on here a couple of mechanics on here states it.

 

when they checked my mk2 it wasn’t a box off job either.

 

The starter engages it, so should be able to see if it’s springs have given up just like the starter would when engaged.

 

Ask the dealer why they couldn’t just pull the starter and check there initially.

 

 

Depending on where you are, rather than using a main dealer try looking for an independent Skoda/ VAG specialist. I use a small garage who specialise in the above, and have recently asked for a ball park figure for clutch & DMF replacement for my 2015 Scout, which at 76k miles is still fine, but may need looking at in the future.

I was quoted £800 to £1000 for the clutch, increasing to £1200 to include the DMF. All inclusive of VAT. They estimated about 10hrs of work.

1 hour ago, Nickj633 said:

Depending on where you are, rather than using a main dealer try looking for an independent Skoda/ VAG specialist. I use a small garage who specialise in the above, and have recently asked for a ball park figure for clutch & DMF replacement for my 2015 Scout, which at 76k miles is still fine, but may need looking at in the future.

I was quoted £800 to £1000 for the clutch, increasing to £1200 to include the DMF. All inclusive of VAT. They estimated about 10hrs of work.

 

Thanks for this Nick. Reason I want to stick to a dealer is that the car is still in warranty. Three dealers and Skoda UK have told me that the work should be covered by warranty if the flywheel is confirmed as the issue.

 

As soon as the car is outside of warranty I'll be using an independent specialist - just need to find one in the Buckinghamshire/ Bedfordshire/ Northamptonshire area.

6 hours ago, BeattieBohemia said:

. Three dealers and Skoda UK have told me that the work should be covered by warranty if the flywheel is confirmed as the issue.

 

 

I would expect all work (including investigation) to be covered by warranty. 

34 minutes ago, MarkyG82 said:

 

I would expect all work (including investigation) to be covered by warranty. 

Don't be provocative, investigation is always charged upfront & reimbursed with the warranty work invoice, its been like that for 20 odd years & still some don't get it.

 

53 minutes ago, themanwithnoaim said:

Don't be provocative, investigation is always charged upfront & reimbursed with the warranty work invoice, its been like that for 20 odd years & still some don't get it.

 

I honestly didn't know this. I would have assumed that it would be paid by the warranty provider after being approved by the customer. Then if found to be not covered by the policy the bill goes to the customer.

Is this the old way? I'm not even that old 🤨

Time for an update, and it's not a good one.

 

The explanation I was given for why gearbox removal is necessary is that it's for a full and complete inspection. Long and short, that's how Skoda are going to approach it so if I wanted a warranty repair and to not invalidate my warranty then that's the route. Not great, but there we go.

 

I dropped the car off this morning. Received a call this afternoon to say that the flywheel is at fault. "Phew!" I thought...foolishly. Apparently the fault is 'hotspots', which are 'a wear and tear issue' and 'caused by how the car has been driven'. I don't abuse the car. Quite how a flywheel can be a wear and tear part at 55k I don't know. And the possibility that the flywheel could be the problem and the warranty not cover it is something which did not come up in discussion with any of three Skoda dealers nor Skoda UK. The dealer the car is with is now going to speak to Skoda UK.

 

This is an approved used car with over half its warranty remaining....surely it can't be right that the customer is left with a £2k bill after 9 months of ownership?! Only 10k of the 55k are mine so the most I can conceive being fair to ask me to pay is 10/55 of the cost. I don't feel like I should have to cover any of this to be quite honest.

 

Any suggestions gratefully received.

Have you spoken to skoda uk yourself? I would want to be speaking to them myself and strongly putting my case to them.

2 hours ago, seriesdriver said:

Have you spoken to skoda uk yourself? I would want to be speaking to them myself and strongly putting my case to them.

 

Yes, both before the investigation and since. I was told before the investigation that a flywheel fault would be covered by warranty and that my risk was the ~10% chance (tech estimate) that the investigation revealed that the flywheel wasn't faulty whereby I would be liable for the diagnostic cost. I was also told that failure to have the issue investigated could result in further damage to the vehicle.

 

I think I have made it pretty clear where I stand on the matter i.e. it's unacceptable that there should be a cost to me, and I have been told since the investigation that the matter is being escalated tomorrow morning. My contact with Skoda UK and the dealers' is being dealt with by the same person.

1 hour ago, BeattieBohemia said:

 

Yes, both before the investigation and since. I was told before the investigation that a flywheel fault would be covered by warranty and that my risk was the ~10% chance (tech estimate) that the investigation revealed that the flywheel wasn't faulty whereby I would be liable for the diagnostic cost. I was also told that failure to have the issue investigated could result in further damage to the vehicle.

 

I think I have made it pretty clear where I stand on the matter i.e. it's unacceptable that there should be a cost to me, and I have been told since the investigation that the matter is being escalated tomorrow morning. My contact with Skoda UK and the dealers' is being dealt with by the same person.

looks like you have covered all your bases hope you get some good news tomorrow.

The dealer where the car is for repair and Skoda UK have offered 50% between them. I am holding firm and have also now got the dealer I bought the car from involved. Have suggested the three of them work out between them a better offer.

 

A thought occured to me - it's only because of CoViD-19 that the car wasn't ready for and booked in for service in March. Had that been the case, I think this would have been a fairly simple matter of requiring repair under the Consumer RIghts Act. I do wonder whether I could still argue that a £2k bill <9 months into ownership on a £13k car bought Approved Used with two years warranty might fail the 'satisfactory quality' test.

Here are some images of the offending items....

A better update,,,

 

Skoda UK and repairing delaer said they wouldn't offer any more goodwill. The dealer I bought the car from refused to offer any support at all and the used sales manager there has not returned my call yesterday, as promised. So I won't buy any more cars from Marshall in Northampton and suggest anyone else considering doing so keeps my experience in mind.

 

I decided to phone Skoda Approved Warranty (0333 043 3782) and spoke to a very helpful chap. He informed me that no warranty claim had so far been made and was clear that dealers should not be making decisions about what is and isn't warrantable, on their behalf. I described the issue and he agreed to phone the repairing dealer on my behalf to urge them to make a warranty claim. Less than five minutes after finishing speaking with me the repairing dealer phoned back offering their sincere apologies. Apparently they didn't understand the extent of warranty coverage(!) and confirming that the flywheel and associated parts and labour were being covered by warranty. They also offered a good discount on a replacement clutch and related ancilliaries. All in all I am looking at £200 rather than £2k initially or £1k after goodwill. An unexpected bill but in theory there is some betterment as a result and I think overall a good result.

 

I've reported the outcome back to Skoda UK. I spoke to two different customer service people during the process. One was not very knowledgeable or helpful, the other was both of these things and has now transferred my case into their name and is exploring a further goodwill gesture on account of the my experience over the past few days. It just goes to show that sometimes it's not the facts of the situation which matter, but who you speak to. In this case, my phoning the warranty team directly was crucial in achieving a fair outcome.

That is indeed good to hear. My trust in relation to warranties is next to nil, as unless you kick up a real stink, dealers will always try and make money from the unsuspecting customer.

Good result and the positive is that if they replace like for like you have the LuK flywheel, which wasn't the one affected by the issue i described.

 

My advice of finding a new or at least backup dealer for the future still stands if they tried to pull a fast one.

Edited 16 July, 20205 yr by cheezemonkhai

Not DMF-related....but following another issue with my Octavia, for a second time it was a call direct to the warranty provider which prevented me being fobbed-off by a dealer and incurring a four-figure bill. I strongly recommend anyone who has a car within warranty and who is having issue with their dealer, trying the same. Very helpful people available on the phone, and they might save you a lot of money!