Hello again, I am looking on here for some help regarding a issue I am having with my 2010 Fabia. Last year I rebuilt the engine after the timing chain slipped an killed all the valves. I replaced the oil and water pump at the same time. The car was using water quite regularly an couldn't find where it was coming from. On further investigation I found a white residue in a line at the back of the bulk head. I tracked it down to the water pump.

 

It was wet underneath and was greasy. This pump was a none genuine one so replaced it with a genuine pump from skoda. It was replaced, when I took it off the rubber seal inside had failed. And pushed all the grease out of the back of the pump.  The new pump I was told that a gasket came with it. So on arrival I found it had a black rubber gasket inserted on the outer edge. The pump was replaced and the water level was stable for about 2 weeks. Waiting at a junction red water light came on. I pulled over an it was leaking really badly. Could I be missing something here do I need to use red gasket paste? What torque should the bolts be. An could the failure be the same as the first pump. I am really getting fed up with this frustrating issue. 

 

Thank you 

Edited 16 July, 20205 yr by Interplain

Would a faulty Thermostat cause excessive pressure to break another pump?

Edited 17 July, 20205 yr by Interplain
Picture added

Maybe, but the engine would overheat really badly and blow the head gasket first, is your cooling system over pressurizing and blowing the seal out?

I would have expected that an assembly with a profiled rubber gasket fitted to it would not need any other additional sealer added, what was the mating surface condition like, ie all around the areas that that gasket engages with, as I'd think that is where your problem lies.  These pumps are really just agitators in as much as they are not positive displacement pumps, in other words I'd not expect a pump of that type to be able to develop a high head pressure if ending up being in a "dead head" situation, while the thermostat might be choking the flow, that pump would be able to freewheel without creating enough presure in the system to force a seal out, and the other side of the system would still be open or have "access" to the header tank pressure relief valve in the cap - if  that is still okay.

Edited 17 July, 20205 yr by rum4mo

Not sure about the pressure, but I have seen coolant fluid residue around the expansion tank. Head gasket is OK, it's not got water in the oil. Maybe it needs a pressure test with what your saying. 

8 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

I would have expected that an assembly with a profiled rubber gasket fitted to it would not need any other additional sealer added, what was the mating surface condition like, ie all around the areas that that gasket engages with, as I'd think that is where your problem lies.  These pumps are really just agitators in as much as they are not positive displacement pumps, in other words I'd not expect a pump of that type to be able to develop a high head pressure if ending up being in a "dead head" situation, while the thermostat might be choking the flow, that pump would be able to freewheel without creating enough presure in the system to force a seal out, and the other side of the system would still be open or have "access" to the header tank pressure relief valve in the cap - if  that is still okay.

 

That I couldn't say, because it's hard to even locate the screws in putting the new pump on. No viable access really, so tight space to view. But that would be a thing to look at. But it's leaking from the shaft that the pulley is on that drives it. If you look at the image above it's pushing out the seal within the pump. So some high pressure somewhere. 

Edited 17 July, 20205 yr by Interplain

29 minutes ago, Interplain said:

 

That I couldn't say, because it's hard to even locate the screws in putting the new pump on. No viable access really, so tight space to view. But that would be a thing to look at. But it's leaking from the shaft that the pulley is on that drives it. If you look at the image above it's pushing out the seal within the pump. So some high pressure somewhere. 

 

I totally agree with you there, but now that I've looked closely at that picture, there is a seal now sitting inside the water pump assembly, surely if there was pressure you would have expected a seal maybe elsewhere, to get pushed out into the lower pressure zone - ie outside the pump housing - no?

 

Edit:- also  the area around the pump<>engine gasket looks clean enough and as no coolant was spotted coming out from within at that joint, the surfaces must be okay.

Edited 17 July, 20205 yr by rum4mo

1 hour ago, rum4mo said:

 

I totally agree with you there, but now that I've looked closely at that picture, there is a seal now sitting inside the water pump assembly, surely if there was pressure you would have expected a seal maybe elsewhere, to get pushed out into the lower pressure zone - ie outside the pump housing - no?

 

Edit:- also  the area around the pump<>engine gasket looks clean enough and as no coolant was spotted coming out from within at that joint, the surfaces must be okay.

 

Hello again, I have some picture of the current pump that has been taken off. May I add, the first picture is the old mickey mouse pump that replaced the original one when I rebuilt the engine from timing chain renewal. I had replaced that with a new skoda part, and this is the one I now have a leak with. 

 

That said the new skoda pump has failed and seems to be in the same place. 

 

The first image below is the new Skoda gen pump that was replaced 2 weeks ago. Although it looks good inside. Its leaking in the same place around the shaft that the pulley fits too. Second image shows the coolant dried on the inside of the pulley. Showing it to be the same place. Am I that unfortunate to have to pumps fail in a similar way or are they just crap and not that good. Or do I have a problem that's causing it to fail in the same place. Its odd to me. 

 

 

Edited 17 July, 20205 yr by Interplain

I would hope that the only way that you could cause damage to a new pump would be to over load the shaft bearing by over tightening the auxiliary drive belt - I don't know about that engine, but I'd hope all modern cars have an automatic adjuster to avoid that happening to cars nowadays.

 

I'd be a bit annoyed if that had happened to a new pump that I had only fitted a few months ago!!

43 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

I would hope that the only way that you could cause damage to a new pump would be to over load the shaft bearing by over tightening the auxiliary drive belt - I don't know about that engine, but I'd hope all modern cars have an automatic adjuster to avoid that happening to cars nowadays.

 

I'd be a bit annoyed if that had happened to a new pump that I had only fitted a few months ago!!

 

You can't over tighten the pulley, it's got a tensioner on a cam spring and it applies tension on the belt. 

35 minutes ago, Interplain said:

 

You can't over tighten the pulley, it's got a tensioner on a cam spring and it applies tension on the belt. 

 

That is what I'd expect, so that is probably another possible reason dismissed!

 

I see there is a small pocket in the casting that coincides with where that rubber gasket material joining point is, I wonder if some sealant needs to be added to that point only?

 

I wonder what the purpose of that "pocket" in the casting really is for as when you look closely at the previous pump, it also has that pocket in the casting but that rubber gasket seems to have been either made in a single piece or the joint point is invisible - is the "unevenness" in the rubber gasket on the new pump actually where the material is joined or something else that has caused that appearance on that new pump?

 

Edit:- I do understand that any fluid leaking out around the gasket sealing point, should, if it is just a small leak, run down the face of the engine, but if it was a bigger leak it might spray out and get caught by the belt pulley, just a though option for this second pump leaking.

Edited 17 July, 20205 yr by rum4mo

I think I'd be inclined to get a Skoda dealer/ quality workshop to fit one, then if it fails, its their responsibility! That said, the price will be a bit of a lump. 

55 minutes ago, mrgf said:

I think I'd be inclined to get a Skoda dealer/ quality workshop to fit one, then if it fails, its their responsibility! That said, the price will be a bit of a lump. 

 

That I can agree on, cos the ******* that I bought the original skoda pump from said that they will only change the pump if its found to be faulty. An I have to book it in for them to find an issue with it. Or say it wasn't fitted properly more like. I just don't have any trust for these garages to be honest. But I think I am going to have to give in and undo my belt.. Thank you

Lets hope the F.C.U.K'ers get it right first time!

That pocket in the pump casting is like a fusible link, a deliberate ploy to allow the seal to move if it is distorted by excessive pressure, this causes an obvious leak to act as an early warning if the system is overpressurized. The fact that your tank cap is also blowing coolant out just provides more evidence to support the theory.